Blake Martinez

[tynimiller]

How would you figure that? Truth is, during Blake’s entire tenure with the Packers I watched defensive tape every single week. In fact, I watch every single snap on the all-22 tape every week. I’ve been breaking down game tape and putting it in articles at packtothefuture.com for 5 years. I was a 5A defensive coordinator for 7 years. So yes, I’ve done my homework. The fact is, dude was awful at taking on blocks vs inside zone. Even worse against OZ. Gap integrity was all over the place. Backside gap control was always overran when the play went away from him. You can look at the numbers and make judgements off that, but stats are deceiving. Tape isn’t.

However I bet even you know and would agree he wasn’t just another guy on a roster. Those are the bottom of the roster types. He wasn’t an ILB any of us wanted but he wasn’t a JAG

 

[Heyjoe4]

OK, putting the debate to the side for a bit.......

Martinez is only 28 years old. Looks like he recovered from the ACL tear quickly. Why did the Giants cut him? It wasn't for cap reasons. Finally, where do you think he'll go next? I'm interested in what the guys who really like him think. I guess it's a question of who needs a starting ILB. Or maybe a backup? Just curious. Seems way too young to be done. He's not great at pass coverage. We know he can tackle.

 

[tynimiller]

He is a #3 depth type at this point post injury at best or injury replacement type guy.

That’s his ceiling IMo

 

[OkieCheesehead]

However I bet even you know and would agree he wasn’t just another guy on a roster. Those are the bottom of the roster types. He wasn’t an ILB any of us wanted but he wasn’t a JAG

Oh I agree. Martinez had some stronger points, like in pass coverage. I’m much more happy seeing Campbell back there now though. He embodies a lot of things I like in a 3-4 ILB

 

[gopkrs]

I think the majority of Packer fans failed to understand the role that Martinez, Hawk, and Barnett played, in the defense. If there job is to clean up behind the line of scrimmage, making sure there are no big gainers between the tackles, they certainly aren't going to expose the middle by plugging a gap, and being blocked out of the play.

I'm glad you put those 3 in the same sentence. You hit the mark there. And Barnett should have been moved back to the outside instead of keeping him in the middle.

 

[Poppa San]

My main recall about the player under discussion is when he made all those tackles, he seemed to be falling backwards, allowing the runner an extra 2-3 yards. What should have been a 2-3 yard gain was five or six and a first down. I don't remember the big hit that decleated the ball carrier driving him backwards for no further yardage. Probably would have had a few more sacks and TFLs if he did.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The Packers defensive line has enough talent to stop the run.

Yet to be seen unfortunately. I agree they SHOULD but week one is going to be a nice test.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Beckham is a great athlete and his weight is in line with an early return from ACL surgery (before one year). Even so ten months would be early December. It's a lot to ask even a great athlete to jump right in during the playoff rush and be productive in those circumstances.

I guess it's possible for OBJ to have an impact in the playoffs this season but the Packers will have some time to figure out if their receiving corps is good enough before having to make a decision on whether to pursue Beckham as a free agent at some point later this year.

Calling Blake a JAG seriously is one of the most questionable things I’ve seen on the forum in my humble opinion…as you outlined a JAG doesn’t do what he was able to do here and even years after.

I agree that it's not a fair evaluation of Martinez to consider him a JAG. On the other hand there's no reason to believe he was an above average starter for most of his tenure either.

As far as signing Blake lets be real
2. Blake would not play for league minimum, that's a huge insult.

Blake already agreed to a pay cut with the Giants that resulted in him earning close to the veteran minimum back in March. That didn't even prevent the Giants from releasing him though, something you conveniently ignored in your previous reply to me.

I've shown you 3 separate articles showing Blake recently ranked 8th, 10th, 16th out of all LB, so forgive me if I don't buy into the "WITCHHUNT"
Show us broad RECENT evidence otherwise??

The Giants released him despite saving less than $200K in cap space. That's actually all the evidence needed.

I simply put up the best player in the NFL stats at the position. Then I posted Blakes stats to show you he's productive. I never once inferred he was better.

You definitely implied that Martinez should be considered a better player based on the fact that he had similar numbers as Wagner though.

 

[tynimiller]

I agree that it's not a fair evaluation of Martinez to consider him a JAG. On the other hand there's no reason to believe he was an above average starter for most of his tenure either.

If comparing him solely to other #1 starting ILB I'd say he never crested the middle or #16 point, if comparing him to all ILB in the league in his time he was mostly upper 1/3 I'd estimate personally.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If comparing him solely to other #1 starting ILB I'd say he never crested the middle or #16 point, if comparing him to all ILB in the league in his time he was mostly upper 1/3 I'd estimate personally.

Well, no matter what subjective names we may call him, this is a fair assessment of Martinez and where he stands relative to other ILBs. I'm guessing the ACL tear has affected him more than we know. Seems strange that a team like the Giants would cut him. 28 is still young for a LB.

 

[OldSchool101]

Blake already agreed to a pay cut with the Giants that resulted in him earning close to the veteran minimum back in March. That didn't even prevent the Giants from releasing him though, something you conveniently ignored in your previous reply to me.

This is probably the best summary I could find (NY Post)

"Martinez came to the Giants after putting up huge tackle numbers (144, 144, 155) the previous three years with the Packers. For one year, Martinez was an indispensable player for the Giants. Then he got hurt. Then the new coaching regime came in. Then Martinez was gone. Graham now runs the defense for the Raiders, and perhaps there is a fit there. There was no fit with the Giants."

He was coming off a major injury and there was a new staff that came into play, those are both massive factors that led to a "mutual separation" and I'm not the one who wrote this article. His departure had absolutely zero to him being a bad LB as you are inferring. That whole song and dance about seeing him making it back for the final 2 Preseason games? That does not mean he made a full recovery. I'm guessing that they probably had flashbacks of their LB, Jaylon Smith trade for an injured player who could not overcome his injury in time. These LB's take a tremendous amount of abuse after 6-7 years of regular usage and then succumbing to a blown up knee, they are often deemed expendable after a major injury like this. They look for reasons

All that said, GB does not need his services. None of that erases the fact he was highly productive when healthy

 

[Voyageur]

This is probably the best summary I could find (NY Post)

"Martinez came to the Giants after putting up huge tackle numbers (144, 144, 155) the previous three years with the Packers. For one year, Martinez was an indispensable player for the Giants. Then he got hurt. Then the new coaching regime came in. Then Martinez was gone. Graham now runs the defense for the Raiders, and perhaps there is a fit there. There was no fit with the Giants."

He was coming off a major injury and there was a new staff that came into play, those are both massive factors that led to a "mutual separation" and I'm not the one who wrote this article. His departure had absolutely zero to him being a bad LB as you are inferring. That whole song and dance about seeing him making it back for the final 2 Preseason games? That does not mean he made a full recovery. I'm guessing that they probably had flashbacks of their LB, Jaylon Smith trade for an injured player who could not overcome his injury in time. These LB's take a tremendous amount of abuse after 6-7 years of regular usage and then succumbing to a blown up knee, they are often deemed expendable after a major injury like this. They look for reasons

All that said, GB does not need his services. None of that erases the fact he was highly productive when healthy

Often, new coaches will sweep players out that were injured, or might not have the skill set that they want them to have, to play a specific position. As an example, the difference between an ILB on a 3-4 vs 4-3 defense. Huge difference.

I certainly don't take it that Martinez was all washed up. That's purely an opinion.

 

[OldSchool101]

Often, new coaches will sweep players out that were injured, or might not have the skill set that they want them to have, to play a specific position. As an example, the difference between an ILB on a 3-4 vs 4-3 defense. Huge difference.

I certainly don't take it that Martinez was all washed up. That's purely an opinion.

A pretty accurate depiction of what I'm reading. Listen, nobody is saying he is 1st team All Pro. But Blake is absolutely a "well above average" LB. I don't know if he can make a full recovery or not. While we don't need him (ILB could be our strongest suit) if I was a team thin at LB depth I'd absolutely bring him in for a look. He's not in a position to ask for big money anymore and that alone should attract interest. I'm not sure why people take it so personal, I wish him the best and hope he can get back out there he seems like a good guy

 

[Voyageur]

If he's not signed, after week #1, the Packers might look at him as a potential signing. He could be that extra inside linebacker they need, and at this point, could still possibly be better than what we've got. We won't know until they're tested against Minnesota. Just shooting from the hip here.

 

[tynimiller]

If he's not signed, after week #1, the Packers might look at him as a potential signing. He could be that extra inside linebacker they need, and at this point, could still possibly be better than what we've got. We won't know until they're tested against Minnesota. Just shooting from the hip here.

Better than what we have?

Devondre Campbell vs Martinez = Campbell by a ton

Quay Walker vs Martinez = Walker’s athleticism and incredibly more diverse offering.

Krys Barnes vs Martinez = Barnes is every bit of what Martinez was with more pass defense skill sets I bet eight out of ten would choose Barnes.

McDuffie vs Martinez = This is the only ILB arguably I think most would be split on…McDuffie is doing great at Special Teams and truly showcasing better at off ball position for us. Martinez has the experience which offsets some of this.

I’m only signing Martinez to league minimum if passes physical and most likely only if one of our four gets hurt.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If he's not signed, after week #1, the Packers might look at him as a potential signing. He could be that extra inside linebacker they need, and at this point, could still possibly be better than what we've got. We won't know until they're tested against Minnesota. Just shooting from the hip here.

I don't think they'd bring him back. He doesn't possess the sideline-to-sideline athleticism they vale. and he's weak in pass protection. I mean ya never know, but I'd say a hard pass.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Better than what we have?

Devondre Campbell vs Martinez = Campbell by a ton

Quay Walker vs Martinez = Walker’s athleticism and incredibly more diverse offering.

Krys Barnes vs Martinez = Barnes is every bit of what Martinez was with more pass defense skill sets I bet eight out of ten would choose Barnes.

McDuffie vs Martinez = This is the only ILB arguably I think most would be split on…McDuffie is doing great at Special Teams and truly showcasing better at off ball position for us. Martinez has the experience which offsets some of this.

I’m only signing Martinez to league minimum if passes physical and most likely only if one of our four gets hurt.

About right.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If comparing him solely to other #1 starting ILB I'd say he never crested the middle or #16 point, if comparing him to all ILB in the league in his time he was mostly upper 1/3 I'd estimate personally.

I would agree that Martinez was average among all (not only the #1s) starters at inside linebacker over the past six years. He was obviously better than the majority of backups.

He was coming off a major injury and there was a new staff that came into play, those are both massive factors that led to a "mutual separation" and I'm not the one who wrote this article.

It wasn't a mutual agreement that Martinez agreed to forfeit the majority of his base salary back in March. In addition I haven't read anything about him wanting to move on from the Giants either.

His departure had absolutely zero to him being a bad LB as you are inferring.

The Giants releasing Martinez was all about performance, money didn't factor into it at all. While their scheme might have changed they would have kept him around if he was a well above average inside linebacker as you suggest.

But Blake is absolutely a "well above average" LB.

No, he's not.

Better than what we have?

Devondre Campbell vs Martinez = Campbell by a ton

Quay Walker vs Martinez = Walker’s athleticism and incredibly more diverse offering.

Krys Barnes vs Martinez = Barnes is every bit of what Martinez was with more pass defense skill sets I bet eight out of ten would choose Barnes.

McDuffie vs Martinez = This is the only ILB arguably I think most would be split on…McDuffie is doing great at Special Teams and truly showcasing better at off ball position for us. Martinez has the experience which offsets some of this.

I’m only signing Martinez to league minimum if passes physical and most likely only if one of our four gets hurt.

It's interesting that you take offense by someone suggesting Martinez is a JAG yet list two backup inside linebackers as superior options to him.

As a side note, aside of @OldSchool101 acting as if he was Martinez's agent I'm surprised there's that much emotion in talking about a former player with the season just around the corner.

 

[Voyageur]

Better than what we have?

Devondre Campbell vs Martinez = Campbell by a ton

Quay Walker vs Martinez = Walker’s athleticism and incredibly more diverse offering.

Krys Barnes vs Martinez = Barnes is every bit of what Martinez was with more pass defense skill sets I bet eight out of ten would choose Barnes.

McDuffie vs Martinez = This is the only ILB arguably I think most would be split on…McDuffie is doing great at Special Teams and truly showcasing better at off ball position for us. Martinez has the experience which offsets some of this.

I’m only signing Martinez to league minimum if passes physical and most likely only if one of our four gets hurt.

I never indicated bring him back as the savior of the defense. I was suggesting he's a potential player who can come in, and play, if there is an injury in the group, and/or someone new to the mix plays like they don't belong out there. You don't just shut the door on the fact that you just might have that need.

 

[tynimiller]

I would agree that Martinez was average among all (not only the #1s) starters at inside linebacker over the past six years. He was obviously better than the majority of backups.



It wasn't a mutual agreement that Martinez agreed to forfeit the majority of his base salary back in March. In addition I haven't read anything about him wanting to move on from the Giants either.



The Giants releasing Martinez was all about performance, money didn't factor into it at all. While their scheme might have changed they would have kept him around if he was a well above average inside linebacker as you suggest.



No, he's not.



It's interesting that you take offense by someone suggesting Martinez is a JAG yet list two backup inside linebackers as superior options to him.

As a side note, aside of @OldSchool101 acting as if he was Martinez's agent I'm surprised there's that much emotion in talking about a former player with the season just around the corner.

He was called a JAG in his time here which is very far from the truth given my thoughts of how he compared to others. An injured Martinez now however compared to our ILB corp simply isn’t needed.

 

[Mondio]

While Martinez was a fine pick and player in the 4th round, he didn't do anything special in this defense. People post his numbers like it means he was something more than he was. Barnes made more standout plays as an UDFA 1st year player than I can remember of Blake's 4 years here. Is he a JAG, like some guy off the street trying to play LB'er in the NFL. Obviously not. When it comes to NFL linebackers who are actually playing, Blake doesn't stand out at all to me. Relative to the competition so to speak, he's much closer to just a guy, than not.

 

[tynimiller]

It's just funny to see many avoid the statistical production in one basis (Martinez) yet cling to it in another discussion (MVS as a good example)...its why it is never as simple as statistics alone, but it is also always something which must be considered.

 

[OkieCheesehead]

The fact that we’re sitting here talking about Blake Martinez on the week of the season opener against the Vikings is absurd.

 

[tynimiller]

The fact that we’re sitting here talking about Blake Martinez on the week of the season opener against the Vikings is absurd.

Not really, it's in his specific thread and not over on the gameday thread....besides anytime a viable back up veteran is cut elsewhere I think the conversation is only natural, let alone one with experience with the organization.

I still think the longer this goes the more I'm willing to call up Kevin King and say look vet minimum plus interception incentives, "let's chase a ring with you as arguably the best #4 depth CB in the league and see if the team can get a SB and you can play into another contract elsewhere?"

 

[Heyjoe4]

I never indicated bring him back as the savior of the defense. I was suggesting he's a potential player who can come in, and play, if there is an injury in the group, and/or someone new to the mix plays like they don't belong out there. You don't just shut the door on the fact that you just might have that need.

Remember Kurt Warner? From stocking shelves to the HOF. I am in no way implying anything about Martinez. But you have a point about strange things happening when injuries decimate a group. So I'll close by saying I hope that entire starting D stays healthy. I think they'll be special.