Bakhtiari to Jets?

PikeBadger

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I don't know if this will happen, but the Jets should feel pretty desperate.

The narrative about how good their supporting cast is/will be for Rodgers makes zero sense. Their personnel on offensive, by and large, sucks. It's easily worse than Green Bay's. The idea that they have a shot at a Super Bowl is laughable.

Their offensive line has been getting terrible reviews in camp, and that makes sense when you look at the personnel:

-Duane Brown is washed; he turns 38 in two weeks.
-Mekhi Becton is a draft bust who hasn't claimed a starting job.
-Billy Turner has no business being a starting tackle at this point.
-Max Mitchell is out of his depth.
-Laken Tomlinson is a below average starter.
-They have a good center and right guard; that's it.

Their backfield is composed of a young guy who is currently injured and a washed vet.

Their TE room is headed by Tyler Conklin and C.J. Uzomah.

They have Wilson at WR. He's very good. Otherwise, it's Rodgers' boiz.
Agree and which makes me wonder just how bad their o-line depth is. This team sounds to me like a potential catastrophe in the making which would make me giggle uncontrollably for several reasons.
 

tynimiller

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Imo, it's not even close to being even. Green Bay's 2011 offensive makeup far exceeds NYJ. Far more balanced, better maturity and diverse set of weaponry.

Knowing how 2011 went and who Jordy became that year, and others sure - but again we are talking knowing what we know about NYJ going into this year in RB/WR/TE vs what we knew coming out of 2010 and into 2011.

Hindsight is clearly a wash or GB gets the edge for sure....but I'm trying very hard not to allow that to sway interpretation IMO.

On the maturity aspect of those rooms alone.....I think you need to review that. We had in order of maturity at WR - Driver (36), Jennings (28), Jones (27), Nelson (26), Cobb (21) they have Cobb (32), Davis (28), Lazard (27), Hardman (25), Wilson (23)....you cannot get much closer. And on production they are also again quite close if you look at going into 2011 stats and going into 2023 stats.

I just don't see how objectively someone can think back to 2011 in August and feel GB's skill positions were better and more proven.

I'm cool with it, I just don't get it. Now for sure believe if you add in OL and QB positions GB swings that needle a lot.
 
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PikeBadger

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Knowing how 2011 went and who Jordy became that year, and others sure - but again we are talking knowing what we know about NYJ going into this year in RB/WR/TE vs what we knew coming out of 2010 and into 2011.

Hindsight is clearly a wash or GB gets the edge for sure....but I'm trying very hard not to allow that to sway interpretation IMO.

On the maturity aspect of those rooms alone.....I think you need to review that. We had in order of maturity at WR - Driver (36), Jennings (28), Jones (27), Nelson (26), Cobb (21) they have Cobb (32), Davis (28), Lazard (27), Hardman (25), Wilson (23)....you cannot get much closer. And on production they are also again quite close if you look at going into 2011 stats and going into 2023 stats.

I just don't see how objectively someone can think back to 2011 in August and feel GB's skill positions were better and more proven.

I'm cool with it, I just don't get it. Now for sure believe if you add in OL and QB positions GB swings that needle a lot.
Jennings, Jones and Nelson all on or very close to the magic number of 27. That is my only logical argument.

Edit: Probably should clarify that I've always paid heed to the rule of 27. I'm a very firm believer that the 36 month window between the 26th birthday and the end of the professional athlete's 28th year is the sweet spot where the median athlete will reach his performance apex. I ALWAYS followed that rule closely when I was engaged in fantasy baseball and football and used it rather religiously in drafting and transactions involving the core players of my teams.
 
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Voyageur

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Jennings, Jones and Nelson all on or very close to the magic number of 27. That is my only logical argument.

Edit: Probably should clarify that I've always paid heed to the rule of 27. I'm a very firm believer that the 36 month window between the 26th birthday and the end of the professional athlete's 28th year is the sweet spot where the median athlete will reach his performance apex. I ALWAYS followed that rule closely when I was engaged in fantasy baseball and football and used it rather religiously in drafting and transactions involving the core players of my teams.
There's a lot of truth to this. It's why teams need to be skeptical about 2nd contracts, and have a lot of red flags with thirds. It seems like after that peak, the injuries become more frequent. Time, and the hits out there, really do take their toll.

There's a reason that the shelf life of the better RBs is considered around 5-6 years. That would put them right in that window, and it's downhill from there.
 

tynimiller

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Jennings, Jones and Nelson all on or very close to the magic number of 27. That is my only logical argument.

Edit: Probably should clarify that I've always paid heed to the rule of 27. I'm a very firm believer that the 36 month window between the 26th birthday and the end of the professional athlete's 28th year is the sweet spot where the median athlete will reach his performance apex. I ALWAYS followed that rule closely when I was engaged in fantasy baseball and football and used it rather religiously in drafting and transactions involving the core players of my teams.

I don't disagree with the 27 "rule" concept - it is for sure the sweet spot typically.
 

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I believe that Cook splitting snaps with a young stud makes him much more than a washed up vet. IMO you guys are underestimating Hardman. Sir Charles and I also agree that the OL is turrible.
 
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I believe that Cook splitting snaps with a young stud makes him much more than a washed up vet. IMO you guys are underestimating Hardman. Sir Charles and I also agree that the OL is turrible.
I agree. Imo if Breece gets back healthy by mid season the Jets possess arguably one of the best 1-2 RB punches leaguewide. Hall was on pace for 1000+ rushing and 500+ receiving and 10 TD’s and that’s Cook “prime” type numbers. He would’ve been a Top 10 RB last season. So in effect you could possibly have 2 of the leagues top 10 RB’s playing side by side later this season and we all know how important that is in NY in January. Not to mention if 1 goes down the Running game is still potent.

Now NY had the worst QB in the league and they nearly made postseason. Anyone saying they are not legit contenders is fooling themselves. They just got better at
WR, RB and QB and returned their entire Defense + Amos + Will McDonald IV
Garrett Wilson was the OROY for a reason and he’s not a Rookie anymore. Lazard is where he should be at WR2/3. Corey Davis isn’t exactly a slouch either. He was the 4th best WR in yards per catch in 2022. The O skill positions are better as a unit than 2022 GB.

My guess is that the Jets are now a 10+ Win team in a tough Division (#5-6 seed area give or take)
 
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tynimiller

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I believe that Cook splitting snaps with a young stud makes him much more than a washed up vet. IMO you guys are underestimating Hardman. Sir Charles and I also agree that the OL is turrible.


Hardman and Lazard both are at that prime age and role to be amazing as a teams WR3s and both offer incredibly different style and/or weapon.
 

tynimiller

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I just don’t see a Bakh trade to Jets this year - I think more likely this year is Yosh to them OR a Bakh next year trade if Rodgers is playing another year.
 
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I just don’t see a Bakh trade to Jets this year - I think more likely this year is Yosh to them OR a Bakh next year trade if Rodgers is playing another year.
Yeah. Imo as long as the Jets make the postseason and Rodgers plays average or better he stays. He took a substantial pay cut as a good Faith olive branch to increase his value. His contract just enabled the Jets to grab Cook with funds to spare. Also Rodgers had a nasty cap hit coming next season that would’ve had to be pushed across 2025-2027. The future suddenly looks $27 million brighter even after the Cook signing. That has to be an enormous relief and things like this go a long ways in loyalty.

I also wouldn’t be shocked to see the Jets make a move at OL at some point soon or early on in the season. It is possible NY could wait until trade deadline for a more notable OL on a prorated deal if they can’t get something worked out. That would also cost the Jets less in draft capital and $cap$ space going that route. In addition, teams will know better where they stand this season near deadline. We already have knowledge of reports of the two teams at least talking about Bak. I just think it’s just talk for now though. I think we all know that the Jets aren’t just flirting with GB for a Tackle either. They’ve got their tentacles out feeling around for a suitable mate :alien:
 
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lambeaulambo

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Hardman no longer has a spry mobile qb throwing him the ball. Ow my calf...ow my pinky toe...ow my thumb...he cannot move anymore. And if Mecole drops 2 passes in one game you know where thatll land him..being ignored. You cannot run behind a suspect oline. And we all know how AR chuck n duck audibling goes. We have all seen this show before yall. Cobb is washed up. The jets have to put their hats on a D that probably will be the best in the NFL this year.
 
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Hardman no longer has a spry mobile qb throwing him the ball. Ow my calf...ow my pinky toe...ow my thumb...he cannot move anymore. And if Mecole drops 2 passes in one game you know where thatll land him..being ignored. You cannot run behind a suspect oline. And we all know how AR chuck n duck audibling goes. We have all seen this show before yall. Cobb is washed up. The jets have to put their hats on a D that probably will be the best in the NFL this year.
Listen. I fully get not wanting the Jets to succeed and I’m obviously not a Jets fan.
Obviously The Packers benefit from the Jets struggling and I get that. That said the Jets are what they are and that NY Defense alone is good for 6-8 Wins. This was the #7 ranked NFL Defense last season and it just added another couple of pieces. It’s very possible that D finishes top 10 again or even top 5.

The Jets don’t even need Rodgers to be great. If he’s a top 16 QB at the finish of regular season, barring some catastrophic injuries the Jets will be in the AFC postseason. While it’s a complete unknown when they will gel. As long as Rodgers is standing he’ll change last years Win total for better
 
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Packers should trade Bakh to the Jets, then trade for Josh Jones (Cardinals) for less than they got from the Jets. Jones is nowhere near as good as the best pass blocking LT in the NFL, but Jones is 26, much cheaper, and when he was given the chance to play LT last season, Jones was one of the better pass blocking left tackles in the NFL. Cardinals played Jones at guard his first two season, a position he's not good at, and he was terrible at guard but when injuries forced them to move him to tackle he was REALLY good. Cardinals have a plethora of tackles and Jones has been moved to backup RT because they drafted Paris Johnson in the first this year and they already have DJ Humphries. Some smart team is going to make a trade for Jones and get themselves an above-average LT for cheap.

Trade Bakh, trade for Jones, and end up with a net positive in trade compensation and cap space.
 

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Packers should trade Bakh to the Jets, then trade for Josh Jones (Cardinals) for less than they got from the Jets. Jones is nowhere near as good as the best pass blocking LT in the NFL, but Jones is 26, much cheaper, and when he was given the chance to play LT last season, Jones was one of the better pass blocking left tackles in the NFL. Cardinals played Jones at guard his first two season, a position he's not good at, and he was terrible at guard but when injuries forced them to move him to tackle he was REALLY good. Cardinals have a plethora of tackles and Jones has been moved to backup RT because they drafted Paris Johnson in the first this year and they already have DJ Humphries. Some smart team is going to make a trade for Jones and get themselves an above-average LT for cheap.

Trade Bakh, trade for Jones, and end up with a net positive in trade compensation and cap space.
Fact: The Packers cannot trade Bakh. If they did trade him, they'd have to add another $20 mill plus to this year's payroll. How can you do that when you don't have that much room on the cap left? Not only that, you would have to add the salary of the other player you brought in. You can't do that either, because you're already so far over the cap you need to find tens of millions of dollars to do it, that don't exist.

People need to understand. BAKH IS GOING NOWHERE THIS YEAR!!! THE PACKERS CAN'T CLEAR ENOUGH CAP ROOM TO PAY HIM!
 

tynimiller

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Fact: The Packers cannot trade Bakh. If they did trade him, they'd have to add another $20 mill plus to this year's payroll. How can you do that when you don't have that much room on the cap left? Not only that, you would have to add the salary of the other player you brought in. You can't do that either, because you're already so far over the cap you need to find tens of millions of dollars to do it, that don't exist.

People need to understand. BAKH IS GOING NOWHERE THIS YEAR!!! THE PACKERS CAN'T CLEAR ENOUGH CAP ROOM TO PAY HIM!

I don't envision him going like I said till next year if he does, Yosh this year....but IF Rodgers and Bakh and both organizations want to make it happen it would absolutely require a shredding of contract as written before executing.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Fact: The Packers cannot trade Bakh. If they did trade him, they'd have to add another $20 mill plus to this year's payroll. How can you do that when you don't have that much room on the cap left? Not only that, you would have to add the salary of the other player you brought in. You can't do that either, because you're already so far over the cap you need to find tens of millions of dollars to do it, that don't exist.

People need to understand. BAKH IS GOING NOWHERE THIS YEAR!!! THE PACKERS CAN'T CLEAR ENOUGH CAP ROOM TO PAY HIM!

No, that's wrong. If the Packers traded Bakh before mid-season, they would SAVE $1.55m in cap space for 2023 (they would be saving his base salary and per game bonuses). They would still have dead cap of $19.78m on the books for 2023 and $19.08m in dead cap for 2024. They would add NOTHING to this year's cap if they traded Bakh prior to the season starting.
 

Voyageur

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No, that's wrong. If the Packers traded Bakh before mid-season, they would SAVE $1.55m in cap space for 2023 (they would be saving his base salary and per game bonuses). They would still have dead cap of $19.78m on the books for 2023 and $19.08m in dead cap for 2024. They would add NOTHING to this year's cap if they traded Bakh prior to the season starting.
You're right to a point. It's over $2 mill we'd create in savings this year. We'd lose the roughly $19 mill next year. But we also have to pay him the $19 mill this year. That doesn't disappear.

Now, what kind of quality replacement can you find for roughly $2 mill to take his place, even if he only played part time?

Reality is, you don't trade him this year. If you can, during the upcoming offseason, fine. At least you might get a cup of coffee for him. Now? You won't get anything. He's damaged property. He needs to heal enough and play enough, to at least make him trade bait.

You don't trade him this year. It makes absolutely no sense, and those "writers" who purport to be experts advocating it are insane.

But, that's just my opinion. Who am I to rain on anyone's Alice in Wonderland Parade. ;)
 

Sunshinepacker

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You're right to a point. It's over $2 mill we'd create in savings this year. We'd lose the roughly $19 mill next year. But we also have to pay him the $19 mill this year. That doesn't disappear.

Now, what kind of quality replacement can you find for roughly $2 mill to take his place, even if he only played part time?

Reality is, you don't trade him this year. If you can, during the upcoming offseason, fine. At least you might get a cup of coffee for him. Now? You won't get anything. He's damaged property. He needs to heal enough and play enough, to at least make him trade bait.

You don't trade him this year. It makes absolutely no sense, and those "writers" who purport to be experts advocating it are insane.

But, that's just my opinion. Who am I to rain on anyone's Alice in Wonderland Parade. ;)

I literally said who I would replace him with in my post. Josh Jones. His cap number this season, for the Packers, would be roughly $2.7m. Now, can you put aside the misplaced sarcasm and tell me why the Packers would be foolish to net more draft capital in my hypothetical at the cost of roughly $2.7m while getting younger and getting an above average LT? If you want to disagree with my opinion on Josh Jones, I can understand that. That would make for a far more intelligent and helpful discussion than just ignoring all of my points and pretending any idea of trading Bakh is automatically wrong.
 

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I literally said who I would replace him with in my post. Josh Jones. His cap number this season, for the Packers, would be roughly $2.7m. Now, can you put aside the misplaced sarcasm and tell me why the Packers would be foolish to net more draft capital in my hypothetical at the cost of roughly $2.7m while getting younger and getting an above average LT? If you want to disagree with my opinion on Josh Jones, I can understand that. That would make for a far more intelligent and helpful discussion than just ignoring all of my points and pretending any idea of trading Bakh is automatically wrong.

So why would the Jets take Bhak when instead they could trade for Josh Jones?
 

mradtke66

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IMO they should but maybe, since they're going all in, they're looking for the better, older LT?

I can't see them doing it, though crazier things have happened. Every benefit to the Packers also applies to the Jets. The Jets are already short a 1 or 2, I can't see them giving up both.

Every downside to the Packers also applies to the Jets. Why should they spend so much for a player who might be a 1 year rental?
 

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I literally said who I would replace him with in my post. Josh Jones. His cap number this season, for the Packers, would be roughly $2.7m. Now, can you put aside the misplaced sarcasm and tell me why the Packers would be foolish to net more draft capital in my hypothetical at the cost of roughly $2.7m while getting younger and getting an above average LT? If you want to disagree with my opinion on Josh Jones, I can understand that. That would make for a far more intelligent and helpful discussion than just ignoring all of my points and pretending any idea of trading Bakh is automatically wrong.
First of all, I did not throw "sarcasm" out here. But, while we're at it, why would I want to bring in a safety who failed in GB, and every other place over the last six years, in lieu of a LT who might at least be able to give me several decent quarters of football this year, when I'm going to end up eating the salary anyhow? Your idea is absurd, bordering on idiocy.

Now, that's sarcasm. I hope you understand the difference. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. Feel free to block me if you'd like. It doesn't matter to me.

Have a good day!

EDIT: I see you were referring to the Josh Jones playing for the Cardinals, not the old Packer safety. The Jones you referred to would help, but would he actually offer more as far as overall value to the team than Bakh, if Bakh got healthy enough to play a decent chunk of this season? That would be conjecture on either of our parts.
 

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