Assistant Coach Tracker

[Dantés]

To each their own, but if someone is hyping Blake Bortles to critique Hackett, I think I'm done here.

 

[PackAttack12]

See, that's the point. He isnt a good NFL QB. Why? That's the question.

When a player has all the physical talent to be great, has exhibited all the intangibles, has shown to be a dedicated competitor, and yet sees only modest results, why is that? Crappy team around him? Poor coaching?

You gonna blame Jay Cutler's career on coaching as well? Talk about a guy who had all of the physical gifts in the world and never applied himself or put all of the pieces together. It takes more than talent to make it.

 

[GleefulGary]

You cant say he doesnt have those skills when he had them in college. Did he grow out of those attributes? Did he forget poise?

Honestly, do you think a player is preordained to be great or suck? That a coach has no influence on his ability to play?

Isnt it more likely that the coaching he received didnt properly prepare him or condition him for live game action?

Did he have those skills in college?

He was primarily a single read guy in college who played crappy competition. So we don't really know if he had those skills, but it seems likely he didn't. Now factor in the NFL being A LOT more difficult, and we can see his struggles. It's easy to have poise when there isn't much of a pass rush and you just have to make one or two reads.

Bortles was pure potential, and the NFL just loves raw, big, strong armed QB's. He hasn't developed. I don't know if it's coaching or the player, but since he's had multiple coaches, multiple schemes, seems more likely that it's the player at this point.

 

[AmishMafia]

You gonna blame Jay Cutler's career on coaching as well? Talk about a guy who had all of the physical gifts in the world and never applied himself or put all of the pieces together. It takes more than talent to make it.

come on, ma. So, if it is true in one case it must be true in all?

No. Cutler is a different story. He had no leadership skills. Until his 3rd (?) season in Chicago, Cutler had a losing record in every season he played. High school through college through his first 6 or 7 seasons as a pro. His teammates didnt respect him, they didnt follow him. He brought the team down emotionally.

 

[AmishMafia]

Did he have those skills in college?

He was primarily a single read guy in college who played crappy competition. So we don't really know if he had those skills, but it seems likely he didn't. Now factor in the NFL being A LOT more difficult, and we can see his struggles. It's easy to have poise when there isn't much of a pass rush and you just have to make one or two reads.

Bortles was pure potential, and the NFL just loves raw, big, strong armed QB's. He hasn't developed. I don't know if it's coaching or the player, but since he's had multiple coaches, multiple schemes, seems more likely that it's the player at this point.

Well, he has had 2 OCs. His rookie year and then the last 4 under Hackett.

I dont know if it is coaching or Borttles either. It's impossible to figure out. But the fans who think that coaching has no affect on a players success is completely ignorant.

 

[Alex]

Cutler had a losing record in every season he played. High school through college through his first 6 or 7 seasons as a pro.

This seemed like an incredible stat, so I had to look it up. According to Wikipedia, Cutler was was 26-1 his last two years of HS, outscoring their opponents 746-85. College he was 11-35 though, yikes.

 

[PackAttack12]

come on, ma. So, if it is true in one case it must be true in all?

No. Cutler is a different story. He had no leadership skills. Until his 3rd (?) season in Chicago, Cutler had a losing record in every season he played. High school through college through his first 6 or 7 seasons as a pro. His teammates didnt respect him, they didnt follow him. He brought the team down emotionally.

I accomplished what I set out to accomplish. To get you to admit that not all quarterbacks who have positive attributes turn into players in the league. I could go on for days listing quarterbacks who were hyped coming out of college who amounted to very little.

 

[swhitset]

I stated he has had very limited success as OC. You stated that it was because his QBs sucked. That's pretty much the definition of excuse.

Maybe all those QBs sucked because he isnt a good coach.

Or maybe you should understand that the word excuse isn’t inherently bad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You guys need to stop debating the value of QB's.....other teams might be listening! We have the draft coming up and all 11 teams ahead of the Packers need to be thinking...QUARTERBACK with their picks!

Unfortunately for the Packers, this seems to be a not so great QB draft class. Haskins seems like the only QB that has a high probability of being picked ahead of #12. Hopefully, both Murray and Lock's stock go up in the coming months.

 

[AmishMafia]

This seemed like an incredible stat, so I had to look it up. According to Wikipedia, Cutler was was 26-1 his last two years of HS, outscoring their opponents 746-85. College he was 11-35 though, yikes.

You are correct. Damn, I've been saying that for years.

 

[PackAttack12]

I dont know if it is coaching or Borttles either. It's impossible to figure out. But the fans who think that coaching has no affect on a players success is completely ignorant.

Your all or nothing approach on this is tiresome. No one is making the argument that coaching doesn't matter. However, good coaching doesn't automatically translate into turning a talented player into a successful player.

 

[AmishMafia]

Your all or nothing approach on this is tiresome. No one is making the argument that coaching doesn't matter. However, good coaching doesn't automatically translate into turning a talented player into a successful player.

True, but remember where this conversation started. That Hackett had garbage for talent at QB. I am saying that Borttles was very talented. I know his success is marginal at this point.

 

[Dantés]

Well, he has had 2 OCs. His rookie year and then the last 4 under Hackett.

I dont know if it is coaching or Borttles either. It's impossible to figure out. But the fans who think that coaching has no affect on a players success is completely ignorant.

Obviously that's a total mis-characterization of what people are saying. Everyone knows that coaching affects players. But most people hold the opinion that Bortles sucks regardless.

For what it's worth, Bortles has oft been criticized for failing to put the offseason work into improving his technical habits. "Dedicated competitor" is not how he's been presented to me.

 

[AmishMafia]

I accomplished what I set out to accomplish. To get you to admit that not all quarterbacks who have positive attributes turn into players in the league. I could go on for days listing quarterbacks who were hyped coming out of college who amounted to very little.

Admit that not all talented QBs succeed?

I think I just got you to admit that Borttles is a talented QB who failed. That was my point.

Here are the factors on why talented QBs dont succeed as I see them:
1. Team around him. I think 1st Carr was an excellent QB for Houston. He got killed his first 3 years getting sacked frequently. I think it really hurt him.
2. Wealth never know how a kid will react to being rich for the first time. Jamarcus Russell was last one to the stadium and first out the door while living it up with his buds and blowing over $1M per month.
3. Coaching
4. Dont love the game enough

 

[GleefulGary]

True, but remember where this conversation started. That Hackett had garbage for talent at QB. I am saying that Borttles was very talented. I know his success is marginal at this point.

Bortles is physically talented. Between the head, not as much. Which is kinda important for a QB. I mean, for his career he's got a 1.3:1 TD:INT...that's really, really bad. He doesn't see the field, doesn't read coverages well. Doesn't matter how strong your arm is, or how fast you are if you struggle in those areas.

Is some of it coaching? I'm sure it is! Never said it wasn't. But coaching can only do so much.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Will be interesting to see if the Jags take the $16.5M cap hit and release Bortles. Even after reading the debate on him, I might consider him an upgrade to back up Rodgers if the price is right. I'm sure Hackett will have a good sense if that is a good or bad idea.

 

[AmishMafia]

Obviously that's a total mis-characterization of what people are saying. Everyone knows that coaching affects players. But most people hold the opinion that Bortles sucks regardless.

For what it's worth, Bortles has oft been criticized for failing to put the offseason work into improving his technical habits. "Dedicated competitor" is not how he's been presented to me.

I think he sucks too. But I recognize he fell far short of his abilities. Too many see a failed player and superficially assume it's his fault.

I dont follow much Jaguar football, but the work ethic thing contradicts my understanding:

https://sportstalkflorida.com/nfl/j...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3GZs7eOOP2avkFVOn3JfB9

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bi...7383922/no-red-flags-for-blake-bortles-so-far

Recent and early article talking about him working hard and dedicated. This was google search Blake Bortles work habits. Also recall his teammates speaking out against media criticism saying he was a great teammate.

 

[PackAttack12]

Admit that not all talented QBs succeed?

I think I just got you to admit that Borttles is a talented QB who failed. That was my point.

Here are the factors on why talented QBs dont succeed as I see them:
1. Team around him. I think 1st Carr was an excellent QB for Houston. He got killed his first 3 years getting sacked frequently. I think it really hurt him.
2. Wealth never know how a kid will react to being rich for the first time. Jamarcus Russell was last one to the stadium and first out the door while living it up with his buds and blowing over $1M per month.
3. Coaching
4. Dont love the game enough

So you essentially listed three reasons other than coaching for why a QB would fail. Thanks.

The implication you were making earlier is that it's exclusively a failure on the coaching staff for a talented player to not succeed. Glad we're sort of drifting toward getting on the same page.

 

[AmishMafia]

Bortles is physically talented. Between the head, not as much. Which is kinda important for a QB. I mean, for his career he's got a 1.3:1 TD:INT...that's really, really bad. He doesn't see the field, doesn't read coverages well. Doesn't matter how strong your arm is, or how fast you are if you struggle in those areas.

Is some of it coaching? I'm sure it is! Never said it wasn't. But coaching can only do so much.

Maybe so. I thought when he came out that Jags were going to be very happy with the pick. What is going on with Bortles is a difficult question. I suspect a bunch of NFL experts analyzing the game tape and discussing with his coaches would come up with a bunch of different reasons.

 

[AmishMafia]

So you essentially listed three reasons other than coaching for why a QB would fail. Thanks.

The implication you were making earlier is that it's exclusively a failure on the coaching staff for a talented player to not succeed. Glad we're sort of drifting toward getting on the same page.

Maybe it's my fault, that I'm not clear. Maybe it's your fault if you jumped into the middle; but you read a lot into my posts to get that impression.

 

[HardRightEdge]

See, that's the point. He isnt a good NFL QB. Why? That's the question.

When a player has all the physical talent to be great, has exhibited all the intangibles, has shown to be a dedicated competitor, and yet sees only modest results, why is that? Crappy team around him? Poor coaching?

There's another factor. What's going on from the neck up.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Peter king reported mcdaniels was never close to getting the job in gb and was never strongly considered

And thank god

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Has anyone heard anything about how all this change is effecting our Scouts? Sam Seale is about the only Scout that I know by name.

 

[GleefulGary]

Has anyone heard anything about how all this change is effecting our Scouts? Sam Seale is about the only Scout that I know by name.

Don't know why it would.

Apparently Hendricks (?) from Baltimore is going to come in at some point, but that's all I know.

 

[Dantés]

One of the names that Frozentakes mentioned at one point was a scout, not a coach, so maybe Gute is looking to continue to build his staff.