All Capers Threads merged

[Packerlifer]

Making the coordinator the scapegoat for the defense's problems has been done in Green Bay before. Remember Ed Donatelle after "4th & 26" in the Philly playoff loss? That led to Bob Slowik and a terrible defensive season in '04. So they brought in Jim Bates for a year; but he left when he was passed over for the head coaching job in '06. We got a good year under Bob Sanders in '07 but after a bad '08 he and all but one of the defensive assistants were sent packing. Now some want to repeat history by bailing on Capers and this staff.

I remember a Packers assistant under Bart Starr speaking at a banquet years ago and saying it plain: You can't make chicken salad with chicken manure.(except he didn't say manure.) It's the players the Packers have, or more accurately, lack on the D that are the problem.

 

[Mongo]

I believe we have the talent, just not the coaching. Guys let go are successes on other teams. Rogers would have been killed on the field yesterday. Guys on defence in wrong place, receivers wide open, success of other teams seems to be a surprise to coaching staff who can't adjust. Ugly. Capers answer to success against him is prevent defense....every time. Almost as stupid as runnin' up the gut for nothin yards time after time after predictable time. Rogers' absence shows coaching prowess or inability to coach. But who is to fire the three stooges? Gonna get a group together and vote? We don't have a single p'd off owner, remember? MM should never have been hired with his record in SF. Capers was even thrown off the Bears as I recall, which for Lovie was saying something. TT seems to be lookin' for **** smoochin spot on NFL. Oy!

 

[ExpatPacker]

Making the coordinator the scapegoat for the defense's problems has been done in Green Bay before. Remember Ed Donatelle after "4th & 26" in the Philly playoff loss? That led to Bob Slowik and a terrible defensive season in '04. So they brought in Jim Bates for a year; but he left when he was passed over for the head coaching job in '06. We got a good year under Bob Sanders in '07 but after a bad '08 he and all but one of the defensive assistants were sent packing. Now some want to repeat history by bailing on Capers and this staff.

Capers is not being scapegoated, but it's been 3 seasons in which this defense has been flat-out bad. There's a synergy between players and coaches; the coaches and the leaders among the players set the tone and make them play at their best. Capers has not shown that he can do this. Just the reverse: several players have regressed. Whether Capers is at fault or not, it seems clear that the players have not flourished under his "system" whatever the hell that is. That's why he has to go.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I believe we have the talent, just not the coaching. Guys let go are successes on other teams. Rogers would have been killed on the field yesterday. Guys on defence in wrong place, receivers wide open, success of other teams seems to be a surprise to coaching staff who can't adjust. Ugly. Capers answer to success against him is prevent defense....every time. Almost as stupid as runnin' up the gut for nothin yards time after time after predictable time. Rogers' absence shows coaching prowess or inability to coach. But who is to fire the three stooges? Gonna get a group together and vote? We don't have a single p'd off owner, remember? MM should never have been hired with his record in SF. Capers was even thrown off the Bears as I recall, which for Lovie was saying something. TT seems to be lookin' for **** smoochin spot on NFL. Oy!

What guys have achieved success on other teams after the Packers let them walk?

 

[rodell330]

This is absolutely amazing to me...Capers got so much cred and love for the 2010 team winning the SB with a ton of guy's on IR ..but it's not his fault that the team has guy's injured and sucking tho huh? what about the defense that has been below average for what three yr's now? do you guy's remember those horrible exits from the playoffs? that wasn't on Capers then either huh? giving up a ton of yd's and point's? ok. Saints were absolutely horrible on defense last yr..horrible. They bring in Rob Ryan and now they are a top 5 defense..they have guy's injured to. I look over the roster for both Cleveland (#3) and the Texans (#1) and the Packers have way better talent (minus JJ Watt) across the board and you mean to tell me we can't even crack the top 20? yea fire his ****.

 

[Mongo]

Ah, lets see, Woodsen , Jennings, Ross is another that comes to mind yesterday...

 

[DevilDon]

I ask this question seriously because I don`t quite understand the blue chipper reference, we don`t have that with European sports. Who would You blame for these short fallings ? Scouts ? Conditioning staff ?

No blame, they are just extremely rare and difficult to find. If it were easy teams would load up on them of course.

 

[Mongo]

We're going about this all wrong. Whining here preaches to the choir, without effect. Someone correct me if I'm wrong with the following: Packers are a publicly held corporation and public corporations have a board of directors that must publish their addresses. What we need to find out is how is it we can, as Packernation, put the heat on the board of directors and make the status quo unacceptable for them to continue. Any thoughts?

 

[jaybadger82]

Every team goes through struggles after being good for years. Eventually, picking at the bottom of the draft catches up and Rodgers isn't around to make up for that.

This s the NFL, not the NBA. Get that weak **** out of here.

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You can't evaluate Capers without acknowledging that he doesn't have much to work with.

I don't think Thompson is above criticism but you can't continue to advance this argument without acknowledging that Capers has significant input in who we draft on defense. The front office just doesn't work in isolation from its coaching staff. ****.

 

[Vltrophy]

The Packers played with intensity all day. The fumble by Lacy was the killer.

What fumble? Lacy hasn't fumbled since week 1

 

[Carl]

This s the NFL, not the NBA. Get that weak **** out of here.

Well, it's kinda true. Look how many high first round picks the 49ers have helping them after they were down for years.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Ah, lets see, Woodsen , Jennings, Ross is another that comes to mind yesterday...

Woodson was let go by TT and he had played well here so not sure how Capers was ineffective in using him. The other two you mention are offensive players, so, yeah, I guess Capers probably DIDN'T do to much for them.

 

[jaybadger82]

Well, it's kinda true. Look how many high first round picks the 49ers have helping them after they were down for years.

(1) ...And a whale is kind of a fish.
(2) Does one dubious example really prove the rule?
(3) I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

 

[13 Times Champs]

What fumble? Lacy hasn't fumbled since week 1

Maybe you should check the dates of my posts. That post was made on September 8.

 

[longtimefan]

This is absolutely amazing to me...Capers got so much cred and love for the 2010 team winning the SB with a ton of guy's on IR ..but it's not his fault that the team has guy's injured and sucking tho huh? what about the defense that has been below average for what three yr's now? do you guy's remember those horrible exits from the playoffs? that wasn't on Capers then either huh? giving up a ton of yd's and point's? ok. Saints were absolutely horrible on defense last yr..horrible. They bring in Rob Ryan and now they are a top 5 defense..they have guy's injured to. I look over the roster for both Cleveland (#3) and the Texans (#1) and the Packers have way better talent (minus JJ Watt) across the board and you mean to tell me we can't even crack the top 20? yea fire his ****.

I am okay with Capers being gone...but at very least, we need a shake up for sure..

But the Texans and Browns, I wouldnt use those rankings as it is just yards..

We had same argument many years ago when the Pack def had #1 ranking in passing yards given up, but were 4-12..

They were ranked so high because opposing teams had such big leads all they did was run..

I bet if we nit picked the Texans and Browns defense, we would find rushing atts is near top and passing att near bottom....Rushing att per game Texans def is ranked 13th and Browns are 7th...Passing att per game Texans are last and Browns are 11th

This still holds true....Your team is losing, opposing teams wont pass they only run majority of the time..

Scoring Texans are 23rd and Browns 17th

Not saying anything other than I use the scoring to get better gauge..Yards can be skewed..

You mentioned Saints last year...They sucked, well their def had the most rushing att per game than anyone else..

 

[longtimefan]

We're going about this all wrong. Whining here preaches to the choir, without effect. Someone correct me if I'm wrong with the following: Packers are a publicly held corporation and public corporations have a board of directors that must publish their addresses. What we need to find out is how is it we can, as Packernation, put the heat on the board of directors and make the status quo unacceptable for them to continue. Any thoughts?

The same effect it will have that it had when people tried to get Brett to come back

 

[IluvGB]

The same effect it will have that it had when people tried to get Brett to come back

*Shudder to think I signed an online petition for that!*

The same could be said for either side of our complaining or praises....no one from the team/management will ever see our comments...its just feels good to vent/sing about them.
Unless of course they sign in under pretetentious names and get banned when they counter back!!! *LOL!

 

[longtimefan]

*Shudder to think I signed an online petition for that!*

The same could be said for either side of our complaining or praises....no one from the team/management will ever see our comments...its just feels good to vent/sing about them.
Unless of course they sign in under pretetentious names and get banned when they counter back!!! *LOL!

I knew of a few players on one forum (not Brett's) that at least read comments

 

[Carl]

(1) ...And a whale is kind of a fish.
(2) Does one dubious example really prove the rule?
(3) I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

I don't understand you're whale thing.

I can give others. Steelers down now after years of success. Cowboys still not that good since their dynasty. Chargers were around 12 game winners for a while. Seahawks reach the Super Bowl, go back down, now they are back up. Lions finally get good after drafting at the top of the draft. Falcons way down right now. Texans down after only a couple contending years.

Every year but two of McCarthy's seasons they have been contenders (Well, three probably now, but won't give up yet). It's really tough to stay that good for so long.

 

[adambr2]

Ah, lets see, Woodsen , Jennings, Ross is another that comes to mind yesterday...

Jennings is having success in MN? He has 30-some catches for 400-some yards and 2 TDs.

Call me crazy but that doesn't seem like a very good investment for 9M a season. Maybe he will earn it on the back end of his contract when he's in mid 30's.

 

[D Frank]

Instead of firing capers, bring in a guy who can teach us some of the 4-3 and initiate it sometimes during the game.. More of a broncos type defense.. Or ****ing draft some defenders who play tough hard nose defense. We're too soft.. There's no more winning championships with a soft team who play with finesse.. Time to toughen up, make tackles, and hurt some guys out there.. We're so injury prone, we never seem to injure any opposing teams players.. Maybe we need some oldschool packers to kome and give these guys a pep talk.. Guys that played in the 60's, bled and bruised for a win..

 

[Carl]

This is absolutely amazing to me...Capers got so much cred and love for the 2010 team winning the SB with a ton of guy's on IR ..but it's not his fault that the team has guy's injured and sucking tho huh? what about the defense that has been below average for what three yr's now? do you guy's remember those horrible exits from the playoffs? that wasn't on Capers then either huh? giving up a ton of yd's and point's? ok. Saints were absolutely horrible on defense last yr..horrible. They bring in Rob Ryan and now they are a top 5 defense..they have guy's injured to. I look over the roster for both Cleveland (#3) and the Texans (#1) and the Packers have way better talent (minus JJ Watt) across the board and you mean to tell me we can't even crack the top 20? yea fire his ****.

The defense was number 11 last season. The playoff game makes it seem like the whole season was bad, but it wasn't.

 

[adambr2]

[Another thing that really bothers me about Capers is how much we've established an identity as a soft defense under his watch. Like it or no, and the staff can deny it all they want, that's how we are viewed and perceived in the league. We intimidate no one.

Some of this may be attributed to the awful tackles and fundamentals. We are not an in your face, press, physical type of D. We're a soft, give a big cushion and don't get beat deep kind of D.

Our defensive scheme is an invitation to opposing offenses to sustain long drives. The Lions could have run that slant all day on us. The number of times this year where we've seen guys wide open in the middle of the field with no defender within 5 yards is alarming. Its fine to speak of execution, but it's hard to believe we aren't also seeing a failure of scheme.

 

[adambr2]

Whining about coaching when the coach has been given nothing to work with accomplishes nothing.

First of all, this is a chicken/egg argument. It's easy to say there's no talent on defense when the defense looks like a bunch of guys with, well, no talent. If they were looking like early this season and forcing 4 turnovers a game we'd be talking about all the playmakers on defense and how they've turned a corner.

Secondly, the idea that Dom is just trying to get by with absolutely no pieces is farfetched, IMO. Clay Matthews is one of the elite pass rushers in the NFL. Raji and Tramon have been pro bowlers in recent years, although I'll give you that neither is playing close to that level right now. Daniels is an up and coming D-line talent in the mold of Cullen Jenkins. Shields is one of the better cover corners in the game. I recall seeing something last year mentioning that the Packers were the only team with FOUR players last year in the top 25 in all the NFL in deflected balls. The last two first round picks have been invested in defensive players. The jury is still out on both, but both have shown flashes at times.

TT thought enough of Burnett to make him a top 10 paid safety, and give Brad Jones $4M a year inside. Dom Capers said himself before the season that this is the MOST talented defense he's ever had.

So I really see only two possibilities:

1) The Packers do have talent on defense and Capers fails to get anything out of them, or

2) TT, Capers, and MM all absurdly overrate the quality of their defensive players.

 

[Carl]

I think AJ should be questioning just why in the hell he is in coverage against Reggie Bush 30 yards down the sideline. No scheme should ever allow for that and he should be pissed as a player that he is made to do something that is physically impossible for him to do.

Except he did have good coverage...

A good throw and catch can beat good coverage.