All Capers Threads merged

[13 Times Champs]

I think if I have to watch another season of him sitting up in that booth like he's playing some kind of ouija board I'll go postal. I'm tired of seeing that wigged out picture and then poor play on the field below.

Hopefully, this season with it's ultimate unsatisfactory outcome is a blessing in disguise. I had serious doubts a long time ago we could win it all with a Capers defense and that is the goal as far as I'm concerned. If we had achieved the playoffs he probably would have remained.

I think there's a lot of examination going on at 1265 Lombardi Avenue about now and it is way overdue.

btw, It's just not Capers. I see a lot of problems. First and foremost they are a soft team and I've said that before.

Daniels gets it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...els-we-need-to-punch-people-in-their-throats/

 

[ls1bob]

I think maybe it is for some reason or the other his words are falling on deaf ears for lack of a better term, that maybe he can't relate to the players or acts aloof to them and they don't respect him. Same thing somewhat happened at my local university(ECU,CJ Wilson's school) Our new coach was overweight rode around on a golf cart at practice, there was rumblings from alumni and players. Next year he had gastric bypass got out in the heat with the players and they would run through a brick wall for him. Maybe Capers isn't respected by the players and we need a new LEADER to coach the D

 

[13 Times Champs]

Imo Thompson doesn't get a pass on this. He drafted the guys and if they don't perform he bears some responsibility. There are a lot of problems that got exposed when Rodgers went out. I want guys on my team that fight and claw to the bitter end. There's a few out there on defense but not enough.

 

[Carl]

Maybe Capers is at fault. I don't know for sure. I do know I see a lot of player mistakes though. The Lions running the ball against an 8 man front is on the players, not Capers.

I can't say I blame Thompson either. The run defense was top five in the league through the first half of the season. The players have proven they can play well, but for whatever reason they aren't. I really think the players have to step it up.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Maybe Capers is at fault. I don't know for sure. I do know I see a lot of player mistakes though. The Lions running the ball against an 8 man front is on the players, not Capers.

I can't say I blame Thompson either. The run defense was top five in the league through the first half of the season. The players have proven they can play well, but for whatever reason they aren't. I really think the players have to step it up.

Run defense fell off partially because Pickett got injured and we don't have another NT on the roster. Then Jolly got hurt and having two of your better run defenders plating while injured will lower your defense. Add to that the lack of impact linebackers with CM3 playing one handed and your run defense will suffer. Heck, I'd argue that our early season rank against the run is more a testament to Capers' skill than our players'. He managed a good run defense minus his only functional safety the first three games, lost Perry for half the season and lost CM3 fora number of games.

 

[jaybadger82]

I don't understand you're whale thing.

I can give others. Steelers down now after years of success. Cowboys still not that good since their dynasty. Chargers were around 12 game winners for a while. Seahawks reach the Super Bowl, go back down, now they are back up. Lions finally get good after drafting at the top of the draft. Falcons way down right now. Texans down after only a couple contending years.

Every year but two of McCarthy's seasons they have been contenders (Well, three probably now, but won't give up yet). It's really tough to stay that good for so long.

Your examples are silly because this isn't an argument over whether teams go through good or bad stretches. That's not what I criticized about your earlier post. You said:

Every team goes through struggles after being good for years. Eventually, picking at the bottom of the draft catches up and Rodgers isn't around to make up for that.

Good teams often decline as a result of things like injuries, aging, and free agency. Draft position has relatively little to do with it.

Every year there are busts and gems littered throughout the draft. A team's success in churning new talent is more dependent on their scouting departments and finding athletes that fit their system than on draft position.

There are franchises that have been competitive for over a decade despite regularly drafting late (e.g., Packers, Patriots, Steelers) while other franchises with great picks for several years have struggled (e.g., Jaguars, Browns). Draft order is not the reason some franchises succeed while others flounder. That was my point.

 

[Carl]

Your examples are silly because this isn't an argument over whether teams go through good or bad stretches. That's not what I criticized about your earlier post. You said:



Good teams often decline as a result of things like injuries, aging, and free agency. Draft position has relatively little to do with it.

Every year there are busts and gems littered throughout the draft. A team's success in churning new talent is more dependent on their scouting departments and finding athletes that fit their system than on draft position.

There are franchises that have been competitive for over a decade despite regularly drafting late (e.g., Packers, Patriots, Steelers) while other franchises with great picks for several years have struggled (e.g., Jaguars, Browns). Draft order is not the reason some franchises succeed while others flounder. That was my point.

Wouldn't high draft picks make it easier for a team to overcome injuries, aging, and free agency?

Not saying that high draft position automatically makes a team good. Some organizations are just not good.

I do think draft position can do a lot though. The Packers for example, had a 6-10 year, then picked up Raji and Matthews in the draft with good positioning. Do they win the Super Bowl without those two? I don't think so.

Or the Colts, would they be any good now without being able to draft Luck?

The Patriots will always be good with Brady. The Steelers are down right now and have been for a couple years. The Packers are obviously not as talented without Rodgers as we would like.

I think draft position can have a large effect, but it looks like we may have to agree to disagree.

 

[jaybadger82]

Wouldn't high draft picks make it easier for a team to overcome injuries, aging, and free agency?

Teams overcome injuries by getting lucky. They overcome aging by finding good replacement talent in the draft. And they overcome free agency by avoiding bad contracts and, again, finding good replacement talent in the draft.

Although first round picks are less likely to bust, the idea that teams need to select at the top of the draft in order to find good talent is mistaken.

Not saying that high draft position automatically makes a team good. Some organizations are just not good.

I do think draft position can do a lot though. The Packers for example, had a 6-10 year, then picked up Raji and Matthews in the draft with good positioning. Do they win the Super Bowl without those two? I don't think so.

Or the Colts, would they be any good now without being able to draft Luck?

The Patriots will always be good with Brady. The Steelers are down right now and have been for a couple years. The Packers are obviously not as talented without Rodgers as we would like.

I think draft position can have a large effect, but it looks like we may have to agree to disagree.

I'm happy to agree to disagree. You can easily cherry pick examples of top draft picks that have boosted teams, just like I can cherry pick examples of later selections that have done the same. Of course, ARod fell to us with the 24th pick in 2005; Seattle snagged Russell Wilson with a third rounder in 2012; and Brady, who you mention above, was a sixth rounder in 2000. So, yeah, IMO it's a mistake to think draft position figures prominently in a team's fortunes and it's definitely not the reason we're struggling this season.

BTW, Matthews is a poor example: the Packers traded up for Matthews in 2009, acquiring the 26th overall selection in order to draft him. The 26th overall pick belongs to a team that was eliminated in the divisional round of the playoffs the year before. In other words, 26th is right around where the Packers might have normally picked after making the playoffs.

I'll stop harping on this.

 

[7thFloorRA]

I wonder what the percentage of his job is teaching technique vs devising the scheme. The coaching of technique seems to simply not be there and if it is then its not translating to the field.

 

[jaybadger82]

I don't have any insider knowledge with regards to the Packers but, generally, the coordinator is primarily responsible for the scheme while the position coaches are primarily responsible for technique.

 

[7thFloorRA]

I don't have any insider knowledge with regards to the Packers but, generally, the coordinator is primarily responsible for the scheme while the position coaches are primarily responsible for technique.

That is what I was thinking as well. I think that is why some people want to take a little heat off of him. He should still be held accountable though for his position coaches if they aren't getting it done.

 

[Carl]

Teams overcome injuries by getting lucky. They overcome aging by finding good replacement talent in the draft. And they overcome free agency by avoiding bad contracts and, again, finding good replacement talent in the draft.

Although first round picks are less likely to bust, the idea that teams need to select at the top of the draft in order to find good talent is mistaken.

I'm happy to agree to disagree. You can easily cherry pick examples of top draft picks that have boosted teams, just like I can cherry pick examples of later selections that have done the same. Of course, ARod fell to us with the 24th pick in 2005; Seattle snagged Russell Wilson with a third rounder in 2012; and Brady, who you mention above, was a sixth rounder in 2000. So, yeah, IMO it's a mistake to think draft position figures prominently in a team's fortunes and it's definitely not the reason we're struggling this season.

BTW, Matthews is a poor example: the Packers traded up for Matthews in 2009, acquiring the 26th overall selection in order to draft him. The 26th overall pick belongs to a team that was eliminated in the divisional round of the playoffs the year before. In other words, 26th is right around where the Packers might have normally picked after making the playoffs.

I'll stop harping on this.

Trading up for Matthews was made much easier by having a high second round pick to give away. Price would have probably been too high if the second round pick was at the bottom of the round.

We won't convince each other otherwise though. Just wanted to point that out before ending it.

 

[jaybadger82]

Trading up for Matthews was made much easier by having a high second round pick to give away. Price would have probably been too high if the second round pick was at the bottom of the round.

We won't convince each other otherwise though. Just wanted to point that out before ending it.

You're missing the point in order to quibble about a trade that wasn't necessary for . Matthews was available at the point when playoff teams were drafting in 2009.

I don't expect to convince you either but Clay is a dumb example in support of the position that teams need top draft picks to acquire talent.

 

[yooperpackfan]

Wouldn't high draft picks make it easier for a team to overcome injuries, aging, and free agency?

Not saying that high draft position automatically makes a team good. Some organizations are just not good.

I do think draft position can do a lot though. The Packers for example, had a 6-10 year, then picked up Raji and Matthews in the draft with good positioning. Do they win the Super Bowl without those two? I don't think so.

Or the Colts, would they be any good now without being able to draft Luck?

The Patriots will always be good with Brady. The Steelers are down right now and have been for a couple years. The Packers are obviously not as talented without Rodgers as we would like.

I think draft position can have a large effect, but it looks like we may have to agree to disagree.

How about this, Bart Starr was a 17th round draft pick.
I don't have a strong stance one way or the other but just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

How about this, Bart Starr was a 17th round draft pick.
I don't have a strong stance one way or the other but just thought I'd throw that out there.

17th round? And I thought 3 days for 7 rounds was excruciating.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

I wonder what the percentage of his job is teaching technique vs devising the scheme. The coaching of technique seems to simply not be there and if it is then its not translating to the field.

I don't have any insider knowledge with regards to the Packers but, generally, the coordinator is primarily responsible for the scheme while the position coaches are primarily responsible for technique.

This is a great point and something I hadn't really considered. Hard to really evaluate the effectiveness of the scheme when the players are playing it poorly. I think I need to reconsider my stance on the issue. ...

 

[7thFloorRA]

This is a great point and something I hadn't really considered. Hard to really evaluate the effectiveness of the scheme when the players are playing it poorly. I think I need to reconsider my stance on the issue. ...

It could be that he is a great architect with god awful carpenters and thus a house that falls down.

 

[Packerlifer]

I think A.J. Hawk ended this exhausted topic this week when he said"It's on us, it's on the players."

 

[13 Times Champs]

Run defense fell off partially because Pickett got injured and we don't have another NT on the roster. Then Jolly got hurt and having two of your better run defenders plating while injured will lower your defense. Add to that the lack of impact linebackers with CM3 playing one handed and your run defense will suffer. Heck, I'd argue that our early season rank against the run is more a testament to Capers' skill than our players'. He managed a good run defense minus his only functional safety the first three games, lost Perry for half the season and lost CM3 fora number of games.

All those guys played against the Lions.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

I think A.J. Hawk ended this exhausted topic this week when he said"It's on us, it's on the players."

Bernett crowding the line in the game and watching Bush run by him hammered it home.

 

[13 Times Champs]

I think A.J. Hawk ended this exhausted topic this week when he said"It's on us, it's on the players."

At some point it's on the coach if they play and make the same mistakes over and over. Players need to be held accountable for their play. Maybe someone else would.

 

[narmer2000]

These stats say it all..
Missed Opportunities
Packers' missed tackles by season:

DefenseSpecial teams
* Through 12 games
Source: ProFootballFocus.com
2013*95. 20
2012 68. 11
2011 101 14
2010 81 22
2009 65 12

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

These stats say it all..
Missed Opportunities
Packers' missed tackles by season:

DefenseSpecial teams
* Through 12 games
Source: ProFootballFocus.com
2013*95. 20
2012 68. 11
2011 101 14
2010 81 22
2009 65 12

Link? I'd like to be able to put these numbers into context.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

All those guys played against the Lions.

and yet they all played injured which might negatively affect their play...

 

[Packerlifer]

At some point it's on the coach if they play and make the same mistakes over and over. Players need to be held accountable for their play. Maybe someone else would.

That's assuming they've got someone else to go in and do better. Right now the Packers don't.