Abbrederis & Jannis are better than Jones & Adams.

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Janis has to learn to use his massive catching radius to catch balls not perfectly thrown. To do that he has to react better to underthrown balls, the QB not getting picked throwing his way isn´t good enough.

We're talking about plays that more often than not end up in an interception. These are plays where the defender becomes the receiver and the WR has to play defense. It sounds like you're saying if a guy isn't Megatron or Julio Jones, then he isn't good enough.

 

[Sky King]

Van Pelt's light-bulb could stand a little infusion of power itself. Not a single WR who was with the team in both 2014 and 2015 had shown improvement, save one. A strong case can be made that Cobb and Adams regressed badly, and that Nelson, Abbrederis, Montgomery and Jones don't really count due to their respective injuries, tenure or both, making a year-to-year performance comparison (as Packers) impossible.

For what little opportunity was given to Janis in both years it can be said that he did improve his numbers from last season to this season. He may be the only one of this WR group who did and most of it occurred in two games. A larger sample size for Janis would be nice and also help to facilitate the debate as it relates to his ability and his value to this team in the future. His numbers are in and I like what I see, so far. He didn't wilt given the importance of the game in which he was asked to step-up rather unexpectedly, and mental toughness matters. That cannot be dismissed as irrelevant to the debate because it happened.

Bottom-line is that I have no confidence in Van Pelt as a judge of WR talent or as a WR coach. Ironically, Janis is the only player who looked better this season in spite of who his coach was.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Van Pelt's light-bulb could stand a little infusion of power itself. Not a single WR who was with the team in both 2014 and 2015 had shown improvement, save one.

I have been asking this same question for months. Lifelong QB and QB coach asked to coach WR's. I understand that Van Pelt was wanted by several teams last year to interview for their OC job, but the Packers had him under contract and denied the interviews. Maybe in an attempt to keep Van Pelt happy and in GB, they added some money to his contract as well as another title (WR coach). Based on the lack of productivity across the board this year by the WR's, I don't think the Packers got their money's worth, nor do I think Van Pelt should be coaching WR's next season.

 

[TJV]

Van Pelt's light-bulb could stand a little infusion of power itself.

Yes but to be fair, he coached the QBs, the WRs, he swept out the place at night, answered the phone over lunch hour, washed the dishes from lunch in the cafeteria, and made sure none of the magic markers where dry...

 

[Sky King]

Yes but to be fair, he coached the QBs, the WRs, he swept out the place at night, answered the phone over lunch hour, washed the dishes from lunch in the cafeteria, and made sure none of the magic markers where dry...

Well, that puts a whole new light on the subject.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We're talking about plays that more often than not end up in an interception. These are plays where the defender becomes the receiver and the WR has to play defense. It sounds like you're saying if a guy isn't Megatron or Julio Jones, then he isn't good enough.

It's simply not true that most underthrown passes result in an interception. In addition I'm not talking about a play on which Janis turned into a defender but the one in Detroit (I think) on which he was wide open but was unable to track the ball. The Packers don't need him to turn into Julio or Megatron but he has to improve to consistently have an impact.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

It's simply not true that most underthrown passes result in an interception. In addition I'm not talking about a play on which Janis turned into a defender but the one in Detroit (I think) on which he was wide open but was unable to track the ball. The Packers don't need him to turn into Julio or Megatron but he has to improve to consistently have an impact.

Janis's need for improvement has been well documented. What's more concerning is players like Cobb and Adams who need improvement despite being starters. They are garbage against press coverage.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Janis's need for improvement has been well documented. What's more concerning is players like Cobb and Adams who need improvement despite being starters. They are garbage against press coverage.

Cobb will hugely benefit from Nelson returning to the lineup. There's no denying Adams has to take a huge step in the right direction next season.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

What I like about this next coming season is I think the return of Jordy Nelson could mean a hefty competition for receiver spots this next season. And I like competition as that's something that will push these young guys to do better and earn their spot, but I'm also in agreement that we don't know whether some of our young guys' performances are simply 1 or 2 game deals, or a showing that they're ready for the big game.

I don't want to dog James Jones, the guy's been a good solid receiver for us over the years and one who contributed to our success tremendously during the 2009-2013 years, but in watching him on the deep routes, I think those talking about him losing a step are on to something as when he is going back there, he just doesn't seem to be locating the ball as well as he used to, sometimes he appears to break stride too soon, and overall just not as high a threat on that as he used to be. If he comes back next year, his role would likely be diminished to more of a possession receiver.

I'm not nearly as high on the Abbrederis kool-aid, he did okay I thought for the time he was given, but for those who want to knock Adams for his drops, Abby had some glaring ones I saw too. He might end up becoming a good 3rd or 4th option for Rodgers, but I'm chilling on that notion for a while.

Janis, I think should be at least given the chance during training camp or preseason to vie for Adams or Montgomery's spot. I think Adams had a sophomore slump more than anything and next year could be back to what we saw his rookie season or better, and let's not forget he was balling good in that Washington game before he got injured and who knows what might have happened had he been healthy to go against AZ. But I still say tell him his spot is up for grabs, at least then he's bound to show everyone he's the man and play like he can, and Janis is bound to get a fair shake too.

I think next year will be a great year and we'll see Packer football played the way it's supposed to be.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Yes but to be fair, he coached the QBs, the WRs, he swept out the place at night, answered the phone over lunch hour, washed the dishes from lunch in the cafeteria, and made sure none of the magic markers where dry...

I've kinda wondered why the Packers won't go out and hire Donald Driver to be the WRs coach and task Van Pelt with only QB coaching.

 

[TJV]

Driver may not want to put in the hours to be a position coach and I wouldn't blame him if he didn't.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

It's simply not true that most underthrown passes result in an interception. In addition I'm not talking about a play on which Janis turned into a defender but the one in Detroit (I think) on which he was wide open but was unable to track the ball. The Packers don't need him to turn into Julio or Megatron but he has to improve to consistently have an impact.

How did this transform from concerns over Rodgers under-throwing deep routes to Janis not adjusting on a play against the Lions? Does Rodgers not bear some fault on those plays?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How did this transform from concerns over Rodgers under-throwing deep routes to Janis not adjusting on a play against the Lions? Does Rodgers not bear some fault on those plays?

Of course Rodgers deserves some blame for underthrowing receivers, but on the other hand it's awfully tough to be deadly accurate on deep throws. Most NFL receivers are capable of doing a better job tracking the ball and adjusting to a not perfectly thrown ball than Janis though.

 

[Crockett&Tubbs]

Driver may not want to put in the hours to be a position coach and I wouldn't blame him if he didn't. He obviously doesn't need to work so unless he has a burning desire to coach in the NFL I don't know why he would want to put in all of the 12+ hour days.

Absolutely true. Donald is taken care of financially, and he has a lot of options and things he does. He is a Texan and doesn't need to work anymore, be away from his growing kids like being a WR coach would require. And he doesn't need to spend his time freezing thru January up there.

I do think he'd be a great WR coach.

 

[Crockett&Tubbs]

Of course Rodgers deserves some blame for underthrowing receivers, but.....

....but he never seems to get it. We've seen a handful of those cases, where Janis gets deep and is underthrown. We've seen Janis try to put on the brakes and go thru the beaten DB, and we wanted flags from the zebras. But Rodgers does deserve blame for those, and he never gets it. But if Janis seemingly runs the wrong route, or makes an adjustment on a coverage that Rodgers doesn't see the same way, Janis gets crucified by everyone. Why does Rodgers skate free from his mistake but not Janis? They needed more of Janis, not more criticism of him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

....but he never seems to get it. We've seen a handful of those cases, where Janis gets deep and is underthrown. We've seen Janis try to put on the brakes and go thru the beaten DB, and we wanted flags from the zebras. But Rodgers does deserve blame for those, and he never gets it. But if Janis seemingly runs the wrong route, or makes an adjustment on a coverage that Rodgers doesn't see the same way, Janis gets crucified by everyone. Why does Rodgers skate free from his mistake but not Janis? They needed more of Janis, not more criticism of him.

Packers fans criticized Rodgers way more often this season than during previous years. Janis was targeted a total of 12 times during the regular season, so I doubt there were a handful of underthrown deep balls to him. BTW it's the mental mistakes keeping him off the field, the coaches and Rodgers are fine with physical errors from time to time.

 

[bigbubbatd]

....but he never seems to get it. We've seen a handful of those cases, where Janis gets deep and is underthrown. We've seen Janis try to put on the brakes and go thru the beaten DB, and we wanted flags from the zebras. But Rodgers does deserve blame for those, and he never gets it. But if Janis seemingly runs the wrong route, or makes an adjustment on a coverage that Rodgers doesn't see the same way, Janis gets crucified by everyone. Why does Rodgers skate free from his mistake but not Janis? They needed more of Janis, not more criticism of him.

Can you show me the long list of time rodgers underthrew janis? I don't it happened once or twice but I can also think of the same number of times janis could come up with catches during his chances. I can also count numerous both rodgers and the coaches looked confused as to the route Janis was running. When the coaches and Janis himself bring up him not always knowing the routes than I probably going to assume it isn't Rodger's fault there.

I am about as big of packer Homer as there is but I am still struggling to see the love fest with Janis. I want him to be good but last year we had Adams blow up in a playoff game and get anointed as the next star and he had even had other really good games. Janis had one. I hope he becomes a star but it was not the coaching staff that was holding him back. It was the fact that two years in he still wasn't able to learn the routes whereas a guy like Abby who had been hurt for his entire time was able to know them

 

[Poppa San]

Janis seems to do pretty good on the broken plays. He doesn't get many looks before the play breaks down / is extended. Could be the latter causes the former? If he'd been where AR expected him to be, maybe he gets targeted sooner. Maybe some of the "he's open but Rodgers didn't throw to him" was because he ran the wrong route and AR wasn't looking that way.

 

[Crockett&Tubbs]

For those interested, more on Janis here I find interesting....

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^^^ This was put in BEFORE this past season, where Davante LAID A BIG OLE smelly egg. And before Janis finally got thrown into action in the playoffs, and made the plays of the game.

 

[Crockett&Tubbs]

I like this one too.... I love LADARIUS GUNTER, but he went undrafted for one reason: Speed.
Janis, well, he has SPEED.

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[Crockett&Tubbs]

This pass, NOT underthrown.

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[Sky King]

For those interested, more on Janis here I find interesting....

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^^^ This was put in BEFORE this past season, where Davante LAID A BIG OLE smelly egg. And before Janis finally got thrown into action in the playoffs, and made the plays of the game.

That guy comparing the two receivers gets a "10" for prognostication. He called Adams a slot receiver. Interesting. That may help to explain why he has struggled mightily to produce. It just could be that TT and MM are stubbornly trying to pound a square peg into a round hole by playing Adams outside. He hasn't been a good fit out there. Two or three good games over the past two seasons doesn't cut it, at least it shouldn't.

 

[Sky King]

Something else to ponder is the number of alleged slot-type receivers there are on the Packers current 53 man roster. In alphabetical order we have Abbrederis, Adams, Cobb and Montgomery. During 2015 that left only two pure wideouts, Janis and Jones with Nelson out of service, of course. And, as we all know, MM and his part-time WRs coach, Alex VanPelt, were averse to giving significant playing time to Janis until they had no other choice.

The Packers may be slot rich and wideout deficient. The sluggish 2015 season suggested they're missing something on the outside, and it wasn't just Nelson. They're still missing a WR coach, too.

 

[bigbubbatd]

That guy comparing the two receivers gets a "10" for prognostication. He called Adams a slot receiver. Interesting. That may help to explain why he has struggled mightily to produce. It just could be that TT and MM are stubbornly trying to pound a square peg into a round hole by playing Adams outside. He hasn't been a good fit out there. Two or three good games over the past two seasons doesn't cut it, at least it shouldn't.

Has anyone ever argued that janis isnt athletic? It is just that he hasnt proven anything. He had one really game. This guy probably does know more than TT, MM, and Aaron Rodgers because he is in a lot of fantasy leagues. How about these thoughts on Janis going into the draft. All his strengths talked about his athleticism and pretty much nothing about actually being a good wr. Again, I want Janis to be great but the bold parts were still issues I saw when watching him 2 years into the league.

WEAKNESSES
Has very small, inconsistent hands -- will cradle the ball and use his body. Is not a nuanced route runner. Does not attack the ball in the air and will give up some break points. Not strong after the catch and will look for a soft landing spot. Can be fazed by traffic

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/jeff-janis?id=2543750

"Bad habit of rounding some routes and will try to freelance too much. Will have some double-catches and fight the ball at times. Hand/eye coordination appears to very average. Limited after the catch and lacks suddenness in space to create much separation. Not the most consistent in traffic."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2028397/jeff-janis

From McGinn's post draft piece

AFC scout: "Big, strong guy. Little straight-line. He's got straight-line speed so he can run by people. But when he starts having to run routes, he struggles a little bit in and out of his breaks."

AFC scout: "He's horrible."

NFC scout: "Free agent. I don't think he's going to be much better than that. He's no Jordy Nelson, all right?"

NFC scout: "He's a good small-school player. Raw."

AFC scout: "He ran real well at the combine but I didn't like him down there in Mobile."

AFC scout: "No, he's not a player. He caught 1,000 passes but he had 1,000 chances, too."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-the-packers-picks-b99265741z1-258580651.html

 

[TJV]

Adams certainly wasn't drafted to be a slot receiver and IMO it's too early to say with certainty he can't succeed outside.