2024 Salary Cap as related to Free Agency

[Pokerbrat2000]

$4M in one year is like top 40/45 CB money....

I could be wrong, but he was listed on OverTheCap as having the 56th highest salary for a CB in 2023. I think what you are "forgetting" or at least not taking into account is that the Packers were also paying him for being a kick returner and a pretty good one at that. He was second in ave. yards/return in 2022 with 28.8 yds/return. He also served as a backup for punt returns.

So yes, I agree with you that Nixon should not be paid starter money at CB, but because of his abilities as a KR, he will make more than a guy that can't play CB at the same level as him AND return kicks. His 2023 kick return stats were pretty decent too (26.1 yds./return).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If this article is correct, I guess as of today, the contracts of the 3 players talked about here (Savage, Nixon and Nijman) are now voided and their dead caps hit in 2024, no matter what they do in Free Agency. Maybe not a bad thing and if they resign with new teams, 2025 Compensatory picks.

https://atozsports.com/green-bay/packers-contracts-void-darnell-savage-keisean-nixon-yosh-nijman/

 

[tynimiller]

I could be wrong, but he was listed on OverTheCap as having the 56th highest salary for a CB in 2023. I think what you are "forgetting" or at least not taking into account is that the Packers were also paying him for being a kick returner and a pretty good one at that. He was second in ave. yards/return in 2022 with 28.8 yds/return. He also served as a backup for punt returns.

So yes, I agree with you that Nixon should not be paid starter money at CB, but because of his abilities as a KR, he will make more than a guy that can't play CB at the same level as him AND return kicks. His 2023 kick return stats were pretty decent too (26.1 yds./return).

I knew it seemed touch low but not crazy. Think of it this way there are typically minimum three corners on the field starting for most teams....that's nearly a hundred across the league and Nixon was making more than essentially half...

I don't personally believe in paying someone for return responsibilities. Sure pay Nixon like $2.5M with return incentives if you must, but I'm fine if you call fair catch every time anymore LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't personally believe in paying someone for return responsibilities. Sure pay Nixon like $2.5M with return incentives if you must, but I'm fine if you call fair catch every time anymore LOL

2 straight Pro Bowls as a kick returner, is worth some money. I guess we will see just how much, since it appears he will be testing the market.

Possibly the reason the Packers were willing to shell out $4M to him last year was that he finally made the Kick Return team relevant. For years Special teams and especially the Kick return team absolutely sucked. Bisaccia had a lot to do with getting better on ST's, but I think Nixon helped as well.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I knew it seemed touch low but not crazy. Think of it this way there are typically minimum three corners on the field starting for most teams....that's nearly a hundred across the league and Nixon was making more than essentially half...

Just to play devils advocate .

He was paid more than 44% of those starting CB's, but by how much? Also, those making more than him, were probably not playing the slot. As I mentioned previously how much extra was he getting as an All Pro Kick Returner? How many of those making less were on old contracts, etc.

Basically, I don't think $4M was outrageous, give what he brought to the team.

 

[mradtke66]

$4M in one year is like top 40/45 CB money....

Sure, but part of that salary was his value as a returner.

Assuming I’m counting right, 57th is 3m per year.

From what I can tell, the better players that are cheaper than him are either on their rookie deals or old and over the hill.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Possibly the reason the Packers were willing to shell out $4M to him last year was that he finally made the Kick Return team relevant. For years Special teams and especially the Kick return team absolutely sucked. Bisaccia had a lot to do with getting better on ST's, but I think Nixon helped as well.

And this is where the intangibles start to enter the chat. It can't be ignored that Lafleur loves the guy; he's got nothing but good things to say about the jb he does as a returned. He admires the guy's guts for the way he runs out almost every ball at jet speed, head on into the coverage. I don't know how many people here have ever returned kicks, but damn - that takes balls.

 

[PikeBadger]

Sounds like Tynimiller feels the same way about Nixon as I feel about Savage. Replaceable by a 3 day old ham sandwich.

 

[tynimiller]

Sounds like Tynimiller feels the same way about Nixon as I feel about Savage. Replaceable by a 3 day old ham sandwich.

Eh kinda…for half what we paid I like the value. Issue with Savage is he actually was one of our best defenders last year….that was hard to type lol

 

[PikeBadger]

Eh kinda…for half what we paid I like the value. Issue with Savage is he actually was one of our best defenders last year….that was hard to type lol

What's he slated to be in Hafley's defense and what would those responsibilities be?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sounds like Tynimiller feels the same way about Nixon as I feel about Savage. Replaceable by a 3 day old ham sandwich.

I get it and there's no doubt that Savage didn't earn the money that he was paid on the 5th year of his rookie deal. The problem is, the Packers committed to paying it in April of 2022 and after a not so good 2022, the Packers were "stuck" with him and that 5th year. They won't make the same mistake this April with Stokes 5th year option (projected $11.2 million). I will say though, at the time they had to commit to Savages option, it looked like the correct move.

As far as Nixon, I'd be fine if the Packers resigned him on a $3-4M/year, 3 year deal. While I agree with Tyne, he isn't a guy you should ink in as your starting slot corner, he's a Pro Bowl kick returner and an adequate CB in a backup role.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What's he slated to be in Hafley's defense and what would those responsibilities be?

3rd safety, behind a starting FA vet and a 1st or 2nd round rookie.

 

[OldSchool101]

$4M in one year is like top 40/45 CB money....

Here’s an interesting article explaining market value in relation to other ST stalwarts from about 1 year ago. They were really spot on to the suggested 2yr X $7Mil area, but when signing a single season it should be adjusted up a tick, I suppose.

What Is Keisean Nixon’s Market Value — and Can the Packers Afford it? - Zone Coverage

After years of searching for a good returner, the Green Bay Packers finally found a great one in a place where nobody expected. During the last couple of

zonecoverage.com

Another more recent debate on the All Pro KR

Re-sign or let go and prediction: Packers free agent CB/KR Keisean Nixon

Will the Packers re-sign Keisean Nixon or let him go? We preview Nixon entering free agency.

packerswire.usatoday.com

Personally, I’d like to retain him as long as he’s reasonable. I’m thinking $3-4Mil yearly. Probably not going to lose him over $250k etc though. The last thing we need is to go back into the dark ages at Return guy.

 

[tynimiller]

Here’s an interesting article explaining market value in relation to other ST stalwarts from about 1 year ago. They were really spot on to the suggested 2yr X $7Mil area, but when signing a single season it should be adjusted up a tick, I suppose.

What Is Keisean Nixon’s Market Value — and Can the Packers Afford it? - Zone Coverage

After years of searching for a good returner, the Green Bay Packers finally found a great one in a place where nobody expected. During the last couple of

zonecoverage.com

Another more recent debate on the All Pro KR

Re-sign or let go and prediction: Packers free agent CB/KR Keisean Nixon

Will the Packers re-sign Keisean Nixon or let him go? We preview Nixon entering free agency.

packerswire.usatoday.com

Personally, I’d like to retain him as long as he’s reasonable. I’m thinking $3-4Mil yearly. Probably not going to lose him over $250k etc though. The last thing we need is to go back into the dark ages at Return guy.

Simple - wave a fair catch worst case.

Jayden Reed is an excellent returner, is suspect Bo could be good too. Not too mention draft may provide someone there as well.

I just don’t like paying for a returner personally.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Simple - wave a fair catch worst case.

Jayden Reed is an excellent returner, is suspect Bo could be good too. Not too mention draft may provide someone there as well.

I just don’t like paying for a returner personally.

I guess I prefer having a returner that at anytime, can take it 40+ yards, put the offense in great field position and ignite the crowd.

Reed hasn't returned Kicks for the Packers. His last time doing it "full time" (20 returns) was in 2021 at Michigan State. I would say he was marginal at best with a 20.2 yards per return ave. in college. I would also prefer not to expose one of the Packers top WR's on kickoffs, especially when they aren't even proven or good. The skill of returning kickoffs is different than returning punts.

Draft a kickoff returner? Packers have tried that, most recently with Kaylin Hill, it failed. Bo Melton? In 5 years at Rutgers, he returned 11 kicks, nothing special and who do you bump from the WR's on game day to suit him up?

I guess what I am saying is that at the right price, Nixon offers the Packers the benefit of having a Pro Bowl Kick returner, as well as depth at CB. I wouldn't break the bank for him, but in this day in age, $3-4M doesn't buy you much.

 

[Schultz]

I get it and there's no doubt that Savage didn't earn the money that he was paid on the 5th year of his rookie deal. The problem is, the Packers committed to paying it in April of 2022 and after a not so good 2022, the Packers were "stuck" with him and that 5th year. They won't make the same mistake this April with Stokes 5th year option (projected $11.2 million). I will say though, at the time they had to commit to Savages option, it looked like the correct move.

As far as Nixon, I'd be fine if the Packers resigned him on a $3-4M/year, 3 year deal. While I agree with Tyne, he isn't a guy you should ink in as your starting slot corner, he's a Pro Bowl kick returner and an adequate CB in a backup role.

In this day and age being a Pro-Bowl kick returner in my opinion is like being the best writer for your H.S. newspaper. Somebody has to be.

 

[tynimiller]

I guess I prefer having a returner that at anytime, can take it 40+ yards, put the offense in great field position and ignite the crowd.

Reed hasn't returned Kicks for the Packers. His last time doing it "full time" (20 returns) was in 2021 at Michigan State. I would say he was marginal at best with a 20.2 yards per return ave. in college. I would also prefer not to expose one of the Packers top WR's on kickoffs, especially when they aren't even proven or good. The skill of returning kickoffs is different than returning punts.

Draft a kickoff returner? Packers have tried that, most recently with Kaylin Hill, it failed. Bo Melton? In 5 years at Rutgers, he returned 11 kicks, nothing special and who do you bump from the WR's on game day to suit him up?

I guess what I am saying is that at the right price, Nixon offers the Packers the benefit of having a Pro Bowl Kick returner, as well as depth at CB. I wouldn't break the bank for him, but in this day in age, $3-4M doesn't buy you much.

$3-$4M gets you a RB2....or a starting slot corner vastly more capable than him...or go get an experienced kicker over Anders worth WAY more on special teams than Nixon is overall...or one or two veteran OL backups or one possible veteran starter if draft doesn't provide. There are a ton of positions I hold value over a returner personally.

 

[OldSchool101]

Simple - wave a fair catch worst case.

Jayden Reed is an excellent returner, is suspect Bo could be good too. Not too mention draft may provide someone there as well.

I just don’t like paying for a returner personally.

Personally I think you’re underestimating what he brings to the table. He just had the #1 most return yardage leaguewide. #2 highest per return average in the NFL. I heard this same talk about Desmond Howard until he sealed a SB.
Yes Nixon is a defined role. But he had 1,000+ yards in Returns last season. Generally speaking the better Return specialists have to play a dual role to some extent. You don’t eat an active Roster spot as a bench player unless you play QB. Nixon was forced to play like 75% of the Defensive snaps which isn’t ideal when you play nearly half of all ST snaps.

Imo at least half of the teams out there would LOVE to have our problem of should we keep Nixon. The bulk of the other half suffer like we did with trying to “fair catch”. If I remember that philosophy got Ty Montgomery and Amari Rodgers run out if town and lost us multiple games. The Israelites grumbled several days after walking through the Red Sea so it’s a natural instinct to grumble after All Pro level provision. While I respect you don't agree he’s worth a roster spot for $3-4Mil? No thanks to “fair catching every kick” or using our best WR to get Khylin level abuse. That’s poor reasoning to walk an All Pro as a backup strategy imo. We’re on the verge of a Championship and complacency on ST better be unanimously Vetoed

 

[tynimiller]

FTR folks I'm not downplaying the impact a returner can and does have, I just don't value it to the same degree as many of you at the cost of other spots is all.

 

[jetfixer]

FTR folks I'm not downplaying the impact a returner can and does have, I just don't value it to the same degree as many of you at the cost of other spots is all.

I feel like if I went back and watched every Nixon return this season, we would have been better if he didn't return it. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[tynimiller]

I feel like if I went back and watched every Nixon return this season, we would have been better if he didn't return it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Not every one. Without even reviewing film I would bet there were a couple dozen times he got us beyond the point a touchback or fair catch would have done...now that could be just a yard, but still.

 

[jetfixer]

Not every one. Without even reviewing film I would bet there were a couple dozen times he got us beyond the point a touchback or fair catch would have done...now that could be just a yard, but still.

I feel like there were more yards less than the 25 than more , those probably just stick out in my mind more.

 

[Schultz]

Personally I think you’re underestimating what he brings to the table. He just had the #1 most return yardage leaguewide. #2 highest per return average in the NFL. I heard this same talk about Desmond Howard until he sealed a SB.
Yes Nixon is a defined role. But he had 1,000+ yards in Returns last season. Generally speaking the better Return specialists have to play a dual role to some extent. You don’t eat an active Roster spot as a bench player unless you play QB. Nixon was forced to play like 75% of the Defensive snaps which isn’t ideal when you play nearly half of all ST snaps.

Imo at least half of the teams out there would LOVE to have our problem of should we keep Nixon. The bulk of the other half suffer like we did with trying to “fair catch”. If I remember that philosophy got Ty Montgomery and Amari Rodgers run out if town and lost us multiple games. The Israelites grumbled several days after walking through the Red Sea so it’s a natural instinct to grumble after All Pro level provision. While I respect you don't agree he’s worth a roster spot for $3-4Mil? No thanks to “fair catching every kick” or using our best WR to get Khylin level abuse. That’s poor reasoning to walk an All Pro as a backup strategy imo. We’re on the verge of a Championship and complacency on ST better be unanimously Vetoed

IMO both Ty and Amari would have been better off fair catching. IMO they were run out of town because of fumbles.

 

[PikeBadger]

A

I get it and there's no doubt that Savage didn't earn the money that he was paid on the 5th year of his rookie deal. The problem is, the Packers committed to paying it in April of 2022 and after a not so good 2022, the Packers were "stuck" with him and that 5th year. They won't make the same mistake this April with Stokes 5th year option (projected $11.2 million). I will say though, at the time they had to commit to Savages option, it looked like the correct move.

As far as Nixon, I'd be fine if the Packers resigned him on a $3-4M/year, 3 year deal. While I agree with Tyne, he isn't a guy you should ink in as your starting slot corner, he's a Pro Bowl kick returner and an adequate CB in a backup role.

maybe Savage could be strictly used as a gunner. Naw, can't tackle.

 

[PikeBadger]

3rd safety, behind a starting FA vet and a 1st or 2nd round rookie.

Think they need to find a new 3rd safety.