2024 1st Rd pick #25 Jorden Morgan OL

[tynimiller]

Gotta give credit to Gluten for building an O line with that versatility. I think Jenkins can play every position but C. I didn't even know that Zach Tom can play C. It's always best to keep the same guys together every game but that's not feasible. But versatility allows the best healthy players to stay on the field.

Sorry you must have forgot Jenkins has center college experience. He can and honestly could be our best center on the team. It’s one reason I’ve not eliminated the chance he goes in and Morgan is LG if team isn’t happy with Myers

 

[OldSchool101]

Gotta give credit to Gluten for building an O line with that versatility. I think Jenkins can play every position but C. I didn't even know that Zach Tom can play C. It's always best to keep the same guys together every game but that's not feasible. But versatility allows the best healthy players to stay on the field.

One area we seem to excel at is OL. It’s been a consistent strength now going back literally decades. I guess it gains importance when you find out you have an upper echelon QB. We can take Day 3 selections and turn them into above average starters and that is a testament to good Coaching

 

[Heyjoe4]

Sorry you must have forgot Jenkins has center college experience. He can and honestly could be our best center on the team. It’s one reason I’ve not eliminated the chance he goes in and Morgan is LG if team isn’t happy with Myers

Damn I did not know that, thanks! He truly is the most versatile lineman on the team. Interesting thought, eh? Myers falters, Jenkins to C and Morgan to LG. We already know Morgan is comfortable playing on the left side. I imagine they would have done this earlier if they had more depth. That doesn't seem to be a problem anymore.

The only concern I have with changing C is continuity with Love. So if a change is gonna be made, it should be long term. Well, ideally. Love is still very early in his career. It seems to me the QB/C relationship is as much about telepathy as it is knowing the snap count, if you take my meaning.

It just depends on how well Myers plays in camp and PS. This sure looks like a contending team, so they'll start their best guys now. How old is Jenkins? Maybe he could be a long-term answer at C. I just never thought of it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

One area we seem to excel at is OL. It’s been a consistent strength now going back literally decades. I guess it gains importance when you find out you have an upper echelon QB. We can take Day 3 selections and turn them into above average starters and that is a testament to good Coaching

Good point. I was 14 when Lombardi hit his stride, and even in the dark years of the 70s and 80s, the OL has always seemed solid. Maybe it's something in the water up there.

And other teams never figure this out. Best recent example is the Bengals and Jets. They have had notoriously weak O lines. (That problem is supposedly solved this year for both teams.) I've always taken a solid O line for granted in GB, but it's not just something in the water. It's great personnel selection and great coaching. I also think it's just an organizational commitment. The O line is always a priority.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It was Gregg. But Ringo was a smaller version of Mike Flanagan who played center for us late 90s-2000s. However, Ringo had a durability that maybe no other center in NFL history has eclipsed. All the years he played and how many games he started. He had to play through injury. Not sure if all that helmet crashing contributed but it was so sad that dementia got him at an earlier age than many. In Distant Replay Jerry Kramer said he went to visit Ringo and he asked his wife who are these guys?

Didn't Lombardi whack Ringo when he demanded more money? I might have that wrong or maybe it's urban legend. Either way, I am sorry to hear about his dementia. That's a cruel way to spend your final years.

 

[gopkrs]

Jenkins did not play well at all at tackle. I would say his versatility is limited to 3 positions on the line.

 

[tynimiller]

Jenkins did not play well at all at tackle. I would say his versatility is limited to 3 positions on the line.

He is a mediocre tackle post injury recovery but an all pro guard and likely really good at center.

Prior to his injury he had excelled at LT in fill in needs...Week 9 against SF in 2020 he did awesome in a game that saw him split between LG and LT.

In 2021 he played solely LT in eight games and arguably had one bad game against Detroit. He allowed only 2 sacks and 12 total pressures that year. In pass blocking the dude got a 81.2 PFF grade overall with just the Chicago and Detroit games being his only sub 75.0 graded per PFF.

What many remember is that in 2022 when back, we played him for a five game stretch at RT and he was a much more average tackle on the right side than he was on the left.

 

[Heyjoe4]

He is a mediocre tackle post injury recovery but an all pro guard and likely really good at center.

Prior to his injury he had excelled at LT in fill in needs...Week 9 against SF in 2020 he did awesome in a game that saw him split between LG and LT.

In 2021 he played solely LT in eight games and arguably had one bad game against Detroit. He allowed only 2 sacks and 12 total pressures that year. In pass blocking the dude got a 81.2 PFF grade overall with just the Chicago and Detroit games being his only sub 75.0 graded per PFF.

What many remember is that in 2022 when back, we played him for a five game stretch at RT and he was a much more average tackle on the right side than he was on the left.

That's interesting because I don't specifically remember him playing T. Interesting that he played better in the tougher of the two T positions, on the blind side where he's gonna see a lot of pressure/blitzing.

But to gopkrs point, I do think he's better suited to the middle of the line. In any case, he's a valuable member of that OL.

 

[tynimiller]

That's interesting because I don't specifically remember him playing T. Interesting that he played better in the tougher of the two T positions, on the blind side where he's gonna see a lot of pressure/blitzing.

He wasn't fully recovered IMO which was part of it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

He wasn't fully recovered IMO which was part of it.

Must be cause I gotta believe it's easier to play RT if the QB is right-handed, with the blind side on the left.

 

[milani]

Didn't Lombardi whack Ringo when he demanded more money? I might have that wrong or maybe it's urban legend. Either way, I am sorry to hear about his dementia. That's a cruel way to spend your final years.

Well. Ringo enlisted an agent. At that time only a handful of players did that. The concern for Lombardi was that if Ringo gets the money with an agent he may have not just one player wanting considerably more but a lot of them. He also knew a couple of his LBs were getting older and slower. The Eagles needed players. They were emptied out after they won the 1960 championship. But that was football back then. Jimmy Taylor was only making around $30,000 when they let him walk after 1966. But in the previous draft they signed Jim Grabowski and Donny Anderson to HUGE $$$. Like $600,000 because of the AFL. Go figure.

 

[milani]

I thought they had Walker playing too much on his heels. For me, that put him out of position. He's a guy you want playing closer to home in down hill fashion.
Cooper is a really well rounded they can use him in pass coverage it’s actually one of his stronger suits imo. Let Quay play aggressive down hill or spy the QB. Few QB’s will out run him and even fewer will run at him to begin with. He's a spine breaker but I think he’s better suited staying put or crashing the pocket.

Getting back to Morgan. I’m thinking more and more we play him at Guard IF Walker retains his Starting Level play. That would make us very stout with Morgan and Jenkins flanking Myers. I think Myers is good, but just not good enough to pick up slack for a weaker RG. I thought Runyon was just a tick above Newman. Jenkins and Morgan at Guard? and we’d be stout in the middle. I think Morgan is 2 ticks ahead of Runyon already. Morgan has already been played at 4 positions, but I think I read RG is one of his best 2 spots. That gives him a year to adjust to the Pro game and he’s bigger and stronger than Runyon and faster when pulling as a blocker. Just my two cents

 

[milani]

I thought they had Walker playing too much on his heels. For me, that put him out of position. He's a guy you want playing closer to home in down hill fashion.
Cooper is a really well rounded they can use him in pass coverage it’s actually one of his stronger suits imo. Let Quay play aggressive down hill or spy the QB. Few QB’s will out run him and even fewer will run at him to begin with. He's a spine breaker but I think he’s better suited staying put or crashing the pocket.

Getting back to Morgan. I’m thinking more and more we play him at Guard IF Walker retains his Starting Level play. That would make us very stout with Morgan and Jenkins flanking Myers. I think Myers is good, but just not good enough to pick up slack for a weaker RG. I thought Runyon was just a tick above Newman. Jenkins and Morgan at Guard? and we’d be stout in the middle. I think Morgan is 2 ticks ahead of Runyon already. Morgan has already been played at 4 positions, but I think I read RG is one of his best 2 spots. That gives him a year to adjust to the Pro game and he’s bigger and stronger than Runyon and faster when pulling as a blocker. Just my two cents

Heels is exactly the word for it. Like in all sports, Get on your toes, not on your heels.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Didn't Lombardi whack Ringo when he demanded more money? I might have that wrong or maybe it's urban legend.

It's somewhat true, but a bit of myth has built up around irt over the years, and Lombardi helped perpeptuate the myth by giving ambiguous and cryptic answers when asked about it. His image got a lot of mileage out of that legend, and he liked that.

Acccording to Pat Peppler, Packers' director of player personnel, Ringo had been increasingly unhappy his last couple of years in Green Bay. He was homesick for the East Coast, and really unhappy that Jerry Kramer had just gotten a huge contract. In 63, Ringo negotiated his own contract, and Lombardi actually added $1000 to what Ringo was asking for - because he really liked and respected Ringo and wanted to keep him happy.

But it wasn't enough. In 64, it was clear that Ringo really wasn't going to be happy in Green Bay anymore, and Peppler believes Vince started working out a tentative trade with Philadelphia - an hour and a half away from Ringo's hometown in Jersey.

Peppler thought the trade was probably already worked out and just waiting for Lombardi to pull the trigger, because when Ringo told Peppler "trade me or pay me $25K", Peppler called Vince immediately and passed it on. Vince said he'd call Peppler back, and an hour later called him and said "I just traded Jimmy to the Eagles. I'll call him at home and tell him myself".

Peppler thought it was very unlikely that Lombardi would have made such an important and complicated move on the spur of the moment.

 

[Thirteen Below]

One area we seem to excel at is OL. It’s been a consistent strength now going back literally decades. I guess it gains importance when you find out you have an upper echelon QB. We can take Day 3 selections and turn them into above average starters and that is a testament to good Coaching

Gutekunst has said a couple of times that Ted Thompson left behind a literal blueprint - an actual document - outlining the Packers' procedures and criteria for scouting, evaluating, drafting, and coaching offensive linemen. On one occasion, he referred to it as a procedure that "had stood the test of time", which suggested to me that it may have been passed on to TT from quite some time before.

I would imagine most teams have proocedural outlines for a lot of the ways they do things like that, but what struck me is that when you consider how far back truly dominant O-lines have been the trademark of the Green Bay Packers, I can't help thinking this set of procedures probably goes back to Vince Lombardi.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It's somewhat true, but a bit of myth has built up around irt over the years, and Lombardi helped perpeptuate the myth by giving ambiguous and cryptic answers when asked about it. His image got a lot of mileage out of that legend, and he liked that.

Acccording to Pat Peppler, Packers' director of player personnel, Ringo had been increasingly unhappy his last couple of years in Green Bay. He was homesick for the East Coast, and really unhappy that Jerry Kramer had just gotten a huge contract. In 63, Ringo negotiated his own contract, and Lombardi actually added $1000 to what Ringo was asking for - because he really liked and respected Ringo and wanted to keep him happy.

But it wasn't enough. In 64, it was clear that Ringo really wasn't going to be happy in Green Bay anymore, and Peppler believes Vince started working out a tentative trade with Philadelphia - an hour and a half away from Ringo's hometown in Jersey.

Peppler thought the trade was probably already worked out and just waiting for Lombardi to pull the trigger, because when Ringo told Peppler "trade me or pay me $25K", Peppler called Vince immediately and passed it on. Vince said he'd call Peppler back, and an hour later called him and said "I just traded Jimmy to the Eagles. I'll call him at home and tell him myself".

Peppler thought it was very unlikely that Lombardi would have made such an important and complicated move on the spur of the moment.

Thanks 13. I think your "the rest of the story" makes sense. It's part of the Lombardi myth, which is part urban legend. And it doesn't take sense that he'd dump such a good player on a whim.

There was a story about Viking coach Bud Grant I wondered about. According to legend, he wouldn't allow his players to use hand warmers. Bud's rationale was the players should be thinking about the game and not staying warm. That one does have a ring if truth to it though.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Gutekunst has said a couple of times that Ted Thompson left behind a literal blueprint - an actual document - outlining the Packers' procedures and criteria for scouting, evaluating, drafting, and coaching offensive linemen. On one occasion, he referred to it as a procedure that "had stood the test of time", which suggested to me that it may have been passed on to TT from quite some time before.

I would imagine most teams have proocedural outlines for a lot of the ways they do things like that, but what struck me is that when you consider how far back truly dominant O-lines have been the trademark of the Green Bay Packers, I can't help thinking this set of procedures probably goes back to Vince Lombardi.

That makes sense. That plan would be as valuable as the recipe for Coca Cola, given the Packers' success in fielding good to great O lines for decades. I doubt this is due to coincidence.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Heels is exactly the word for it. Like in all sports, Get on your toes, not on your heels.

Interesting. OS brings up a good point - it did seem that Walker was backing up a lot rather than charging. Probably due to his dropping into coverage. Now with Cooper, that should allow one of them to rush/blitz more often and still cover on pass plays. That alone would make a huge difference for the secondary, and for the D overall.

 

[milani]

It's somewhat true, but a bit of myth has built up around irt over the years, and Lombardi helped perpeptuate the myth by giving ambiguous and cryptic answers when asked about it. His image got a lot of mileage out of that legend, and he liked that.

Acccording to Pat Peppler, Packers' director of player personnel, Ringo had been increasingly unhappy his last couple of years in Green Bay. He was homesick for the East Coast, and really unhappy that Jerry Kramer had just gotten a huge contract. In 63, Ringo negotiated his own contract, and Lombardi actually added $1000 to what Ringo was asking for - because he really liked and respected Ringo and wanted to keep him happy.

But it wasn't enough. In 64, it was clear that Ringo really wasn't going to be happy in Green Bay anymore, and Peppler believes Vince started working out a tentative trade with Philadelphia - an hour and a half away from Ringo's hometown in Jersey.

Peppler thought the trade was probably already worked out and just waiting for Lombardi to pull the trigger, because when Ringo told Peppler "trade me or pay me $25K", Peppler called Vince immediately and passed it on. Vince said he'd call Peppler back, and an hour later called him and said "I just traded Jimmy to the Eagles. I'll call him at home and tell him myself".

Peppler thought it was very unlikely that Lombardi would have made such an important and complicated move on the spur of the moment.

Actually, Kramer did not receive a " huge " contract. He got an increase of what would be called modest but not big money. He was still in the 20's as he stated. But Kramer did one thing that none of the other linemen did. He assumed placekicking duties in 1962-63 while Hornung was hurt and then suspended as well as playing guard. Kramer was to kick in 1964 but he was out due to his unknown splinter condition.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Actually, Kramer did not receive a " huge " contract. He got an increase of what would be called modest but not big money. He was still in the 20's as he stated. But Kramer did one thing that none of the other linemen did. He assumed placekicking duties in 1962-63 while Hornung was hurt and then suspended as well as playing guard. Kramer was to kick in 1964 but he was out due to his unknown splinter condition.

Yeah I don't recall any of the Lombardi Packers getting unusually high deals, especially in that era. The teams seemed to have much more control than they do now.

 

[milani]

Yeah I don't recall any of the Lombardi Packers getting unusually high deals, especially in that era. The teams seemed to have much more control than they do now.

The ascension of the AFL helped with the salary structure. And of course, the formation of the NFLPA came about.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Yeah I don't recall any of the Lombardi Packers getting unusually high deals, especially in that era. The teams seemed to have much more control than they do now.

Here's what I'm basing that on...

"The first guy I negotiated with, the first day on the job (in 1963), was (Jim) Ringo. Vince said, 'Get a hold of Ringo,' and offer him this, this and this. Jim said, no. (He wanted) somewhat more; it wasn't outlandish. So I went to Vince and he said, 'Give it to him.' Then later that year, Jerry Kramer was contacted by an AFL team. They were trying to get him to play out his option and offering like $23,000. He was making like $16,000, I think. We had talked to (Kramer) and Vince had offered him like a $1,500 raise. But Vince felt he had to sign Kramer, so he said, 'Get a hold of Ringo for me.' I got Ringo on the phone and Vince told him that he didn't think it was fair that Kramer was going to be making that much more. So Ringo wrote his own contract. Vince gave him $1,000 more after the Kramer thing."

That's a reminiscence from Pat Peppler, who was Lombardi's vice president in charge of player personnel.

Pat Peppler tells all on Lombardi Packers

So that's not clear on exactly how much of a raise Kramer got, but it sounds like it was from $16,000 to something at least close to $23. This was in the era where most players had offseason jobs in lumberyards, construction. selling cars or insurance, etc. Turning down $23,000 woukld be a very difficult decision for Kramer.

I also recall reading once that Kramer's raise was from $10-12K to $16K, but can't find that information anymore. But one thing that seems clear is Kramer got a raise big enough that Ringo was comfortatble asking for $25,000.

 

[milani]

Here's what I'm basing that on...



That's a reminiscence from Pat Peppler, who was Lombardi's vice president in charge of player personnel.

Pat Peppler tells all on Lombardi Packers

So that's not clear on exactly how much of a raise Kramer got, but it sounds like it was from $16,000 to something at least close to $23. This was in the era where most players had offseason jobs in lumberyards, construction. selling cars or insurance, etc. Turning down $23,000 woukld be a very difficult decision for Kramer.

I also recall reading once that Kramer's raise was from $10-12K to $16K, but can't find that information anymore. But one thing that seems clear is Kramer got a raise big enough that Ringo was comfortatble asking for $25,000.

Kramer gave a pretty good accounting of his own salary negotiations in regard to Lombardi in his books.And those were written a long time ago.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Here's what I'm basing that on...



That's a reminiscence from Pat Peppler, who was Lombardi's vice president in charge of player personnel.

Pat Peppler tells all on Lombardi Packers

So that's not clear on exactly how much of a raise Kramer got, but it sounds like it was from $16,000 to something at least close to $23. This was in the era where most players had offseason jobs in lumberyards, construction. selling cars or insurance, etc. Turning down $23,000 woukld be a very difficult decision for Kramer.

I also recall reading once that Kramer's raise was from $10-12K to $16K, but can't find that information anymore. But one thing that seems clear is Kramer got a raise big enough that Ringo was comfortatble asking for $25,000.

Isn't it amazing? $25k was considered big money in the 60s. That wouldn't even be considered a big fine now.