2024 2nd Rd pick #45 Edgerrin Cooper LB

[OldSchool101]

I think he might have meant that Edge reads and reacts so much more quickly than other players that it's the functional equivalent of being a half second faster in terms of his actual speed. That his mental speed is so fast that it has the effect of an even faster physical speed.

That's my guess, anyway.

That’s what I’d gather also. I think Tyni and myself were just busting his chops is all

 

[Thirteen Below]

That’s what I’d gather also. I think Tyni and myself were just busting his chops is all

Actually, I know now that it definiteluy was what he meant. As I scrolled back reading previous posst in the thread, I saw him use the same figure of speech on April 26, and in much clearer phrasing.

It's a good figure of speech, I think. Clever play on words that paints a good picture.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

I think he might have meant that Edge reads and reacts so much more quickly than other players that it's the functional equivalent of being a half second faster in terms of his actual speed. That his mental speed is so fast that it has the effect of an even faster physical speed.

That's my guess, anyway.

That's exactly what I meant, and dude I love the profile pic.

 

[Sanguine camper]

The functional speed of reacting faster than everybody else because they see and process the game faster is a perfect description of Charles Woodson. I would hold my horses on putting Edgerin Cooper in that HOF category. He's a Rookie. Hooefully the coaching staff will finally start to "develop" defensive talent which hasn't happened often enough to salvage many high draft picks over the past 15 seasons. Hearing that Cooper is a fast processor is good news but he has a long ways to go.

 

[OldSchool101]

The functional speed of reacting faster than everybody else because they see and process the game faster is a perfect description of Charles Woodson. I would hold my horses on putting Edgerin Cooper in that HOF category. He's a Rookie. Hooefully the coaching staff will finally start to "develop" defensive talent which hasn't happened often enough to salvage many high draft picks over the past 15 seasons. Hearing that Cooper is a fast processor is good news but he has a long ways to go.

Agreed, He’s got a ways to go. That think he’s going to be a formidable LB early in and paired with Walker this gives us 2 Very fast, Assertive LB’s. Cooper is very good at Splitting blocks with his short area quickness. He's like a heat seeking Missile. They don’t always hit the target perfectly but when they do they cause turmoil.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

The functional speed of reacting faster than everybody else because they see and process the game faster is a perfect description of Charles Woodson. I would hold my horses on putting Edgerin Cooper in that HOF category. He's a Rookie. Hooefully the coaching staff will finally start to "develop" defensive talent which hasn't happened often enough to salvage many high draft picks over the past 15 seasons. Hearing that Cooper is a fast processor is good news but he has a long ways to go.

True, but in college he looked like he was playing with middle schoolers

 

[OldSchool101]

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We got the #1 iLB in this Draft Class. Comps of Patrick Willis, Lavontae David and TJ Watt? Thats a bigtime compliment and if used properly we got us a play wrecker.
Gutey just loaded up at LB.
We now have suited up 1st, 2nd, 3rd Rounders at
LB
RB

 

[Thirteen Below]

That's exactly what I meant, and dude I love the profile pic.

Thanks - those were the Packers I gew up watching; they're the ones I think of first when I think "Packer football." And of those players, Nitschke is one of the first who come to mind. The man is one of a group of players who defined "Packer football" during the Lombardi Era.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Thanks - those were the Packers I gew up watching; they're the ones I think of first when I think "Packer football." And of those players, Nitschke is one of the first who come to mind. The man is one of a group of players who defined "Packer football" during the Lombardi Era.

I started with the Starr coached Packers...my Dad actually knew Nitschke and his wife, and I got to see Ray's nephew John play semi-pro ball when I was growing up.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

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We got the #1 iLB in this Draft Class. Comps of Patrick Willis, Lavontae David and TJ Watt? Thats a bigtime compliment and if used properly we got us a play wrecker.
Gutey just loaded up at LB.
We now have suited up 1st, 2nd, 3rd Rounders at
LB
RB

What I see is what Ted and Mike thought they had when they decided to move Clay inside. Edgerrin Cooper is definitely a DUDE.

 

[Thirteen Below]

The functional speed of reacting faster than everybody else because they see and process the game faster is a perfect description of Charles Woodson. I would hold my horses on putting Edgerin Cooper in that HOF category. He's a Rookie.

I agree; it's a little early to commission the HOF statue. All we can legitimately asess at this stage is his potential, the physical tools and skill set he is starting out with.

But when we look at him through that lens, it's hard to deny that he seems to have every quality he needs to excel at his position. Edge may arguably be almost the equivalent of a five tool player in baseball, but if anyone thinks that's a bridge too far, it's not an opinion I'd fight hard to defend. It could easily be an overstatement; I'm OK with being shouted down. Just stretching a bit to make a point.

But the point is that he does seem to check off just about every box on the list of things you need to see in an elite linebacker prospect. Reports out of OTAs seem completely positive - not just the physical skills (speed, ability to split blockers and get into the pocket, aggressiveness, etc) but more importantly the mental aspect - his ability to read formations, anticipate the play, and bust it up before it even starts.

At one point, Lafleur designed a play specifically to test Cooper - trick him into guessing wrong and over-committing to the wrong read. But Edge sniffed it out as soon as he saw the formation, and was into the backfield before it could even develop. Lafleur was so shocked, he asked his defensive coaches if they'd tipped him off, and he was doubly surprised when they swore they hadn't - he just spotted it, and slammed the door on it.

It's possible Cooper got lucky, but then again.... it's pretty impressive for a rookie in Day Four of mini-camp to outfox a coach as smart as Lafleur. Even if it was a lucky guess, it shows he has some pretty damned good instincts.

I know that having these eye-popping moments in training camp does not mean he's going to be a hall of famer. Random, isolated data points like this can't paint an accurate picture of how well he is going to play week in and week out, play by play, over the course of an entire season - or even a stretch of several games. That's the only true test.

Because for every 5-tool player like Kirby Puckett or Mike Schmidt, there are a half dozen Matt Bush's, or Billy Beanes, or BJ Uptons, or Brien Tailors, or Jason Places, and on and on and on. 5-tool players who looked spectacular when they first showed up, but never went anywhere. Cooper clearly has a lot of potential, but it's way, waayy too soon to predict how much of that potential he'll achieve.

But it's gonna be fun to watch, and frankly, I'm really excited about it. I can't remember the last linebacker we drafted who was more promising, and that absolutely includes Walker.

Hooefully the coaching staff will finally start to "develop" defensive talent which hasn't happened often enough to salvage many high draft picks over the past 15 seasons.

Totally agree with this.

Our defense has radically underperformed for well over a decade, and when you consider how many 1st round picks Thompson and Gutekunst have spent on defensive players, it's discouraging to see how all that draft capital we've invested has never delivered the returns we were expecting. 10, 15 years just pissed away because so many of these Day One picks got off the plane at Austin Straubel and never produced.

That almost has to be one of three things - maybe Thompson and Gutekunst have just sucked at drafting defense, or they've had incredibly bad luck, or.... their position coaches and coordinators have done a poor job of teaching them and putting them into positions where they can succeed.

I have a hard time accepting that GMs and a scouting staff who have done a consistently solid job of building such an excellent offense just completely suck at identifying defensive talent, and I've played too much poker and blackjack to believe our luck could be so consistently and so terribly dreadful. I can believe that those two factors did play some part in it, but my gut tells me that the biggest factor comes down to coaching.

Early indications suggest that may change. My expectation is that Hafley is going to get a hell of a lot more out of most of our D than we ever saw before. I strongly believe that we'll see several defensive veterans perform way above what we've gotten used to seeing out of them, and at least a couple of rookies have solid first-year efforts.

And I know I said this a few times before, but I also have a strong suspicion that Darnell Savage is gonna rock the Casbah this season - with J-ville's new DC emphasizing man coverage, he may look very good in his new home. I'm not going to suggest we'll regret letting him go, but I do think some of us might be disappointed that he plays at a level we never really saw here.

 

[tynimiller]

13...do you ever have concise thoughts? I'm quite guilty of long winded write ups as well but I bow in recognition I do not compare LOL

 

[sschind]

13...do you ever have concise thoughts? I'm quite guilty of long winded write ups as well but I bow in recognition I do not compare LOL

I was going to say that I'm glad he showed up. Makes my posts look like bullet points.

 

[tynimiller]

I was going to say that I'm glad he showed up. Makes my posts look like bullet points.

FACTS! I do appreciate that myself.

 

[Thirteen Below]

I started with the Starr coached Packers...my Dad actually knew Nitschke and his wife, and I got to see Ray's nephew John play semi-pro ball when I was growing up.

Oh, wow, what a coincidence.

My dad knew some Packers too, including Nitschke, because he lived in Stevens Point during the years Green Bay did their summer camp at UW-Stevens Point. They all hung out at my dad's 3 favorite bars on the north side. The word in Point is that the Packers cut a pretty wide swath through our small town, and I remember a lot of times as a kid hearing adults using the phrase "Packer babies" in reference to some of the kids in school.

He somehow got to know Nitschtke later, in Green Bay, because Nitschke was drafted the year after they stopped training in Point. Never got the whole story, because I got the impression they didn't care for each other. Probably met him through some of the other Packers he'd met in Point; they used to drink at some bar on or just off of Mason near where the Arby's is today, and close to where my dad later lived.

 

[Thirteen Below]

13...do you ever have concise thoughts?

Yes!

 

[OldSchool101]

Yes!

I’m giving you a like for merely for extra effort. I would’ve given you 6 likes but it’s only 1 per post.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think what is really going to help Cooper are the players around him. Several guys will remain stagnant that’s kinda normal. But having Alexander, Stokes, Bullard, Valentine and McKinney behind him? It’s going to force QB’s to tuck n run more often and that’s his calling card. QB’s will either run at Quay or Edge. Not a good choice for a QB unless you want to shorten your career!

 

[Thirteen Below]

I’m giving you a like for merely for extra effort. I would’ve given you 6 likes but it’s only 1 per post.

I'm grateful that you recognize and appreciate the enormous effort required for that much restraint.

 

[Thirteen Below]

I think what is really going to help Cooper are the players around him. Several guys will remain stagnant that’s kinda normal. But having Alexander, Stokes, Bullard, Valentine and McKinney behind him? It’s going to force QB’s to tuck n run more often and that’s his calling card. QB’s will either run at Quay or Edge. Not a good choice for a QB unless you want to shorten your career!

And not simply the coverage pressure from the improved secondary - the 2nd level of defense (linebackers) are probably going to get a great deal of help from the first level, the D line.

One of the two or three most fundamental principles of Hafley's defensive philosophy is that the primary responsibility for every single defensive player is to somehow make the quarterback's job harder for him to do. If the walk he walks is even 1/3 of the talk he talks, some of the defensive linemen are going be getting into the backfield a lot more aggresively and a lot more often than we've gotten used to seeing over the last few years.

One of the most important parts of Hafley's defense is making sure that the quarterback has to make every single decision much sooner than he planned to make it - so that he's more likely to make a mistake.

Over the last several years, our D-line has consistently under-performed both their expectations and their draft potions. If Hafley can put even a few more of these guys into a position to elevate their play and consistently violate the pocket, QBs are often going to have to pick between trying to force a throw into coverage - or run headfirst into Cooper, Walker, or Hopper, or even Bullard in the box

Been awhile since opposing quarterbacks have had to balance all of those unfavorable options on a play-by-play basis. I'm eager to see what sort of poor decisions we may expect to result.

 

[Half Empty]

Definition or irony - (the length of) post #45 coming right after post #44.

 

[OldSchool101]

And not simply the coverage pressure from the improved secondary - the 2nd level of defense (linebackers) are probably going to get a great deal of help from the first level, the D line.

One of the two or three most fundamental principles of Hafley's defensive philosophy is that the primary responsibility for every single defensive player is to somehow make the quarterback's job harder for him to do. If the walk he walks is even 1/3 of the talk he talks, some of the defensive linemen are going be getting into the backfield a lot more aggresively and a lot more often than we've gotten used to seeing over the last few years.

One of the most important parts of Hafley's defense is making sure that the quarterback has to make every single decision much sooner than he planned to make it - so that he's more likely to make a mistake.

Over the last several years, our D-line has consistently under-performed both their expectations and their draft potions. If Hafley can put even a few more of these guys into a position to elevate their play and consistently violate the pocket, QBs are often going to have to pick between trying to force a throw into coverage - or run headfirst into Cooper, Walker, or Hopper, or even Bullard in the box

Been awhile since opposing quarterbacks have had to balance all of those unfavorable options on a play-by-play basis. I'm eager to see what sort of poor decisions we may expect to result.

I really believe that Coaching is a bigger part of a Defenses success than most of us realize. It’s not just possessing knowledge and energy like Barry actually did. Theres a true art that some DC’s have that enabled them to use players strengths like a military campaign. The Confederate armies were almost always undermanned in a 3:1, 2:1 or 3:2 ratio. Including Parrot guns. Yet from visiting dozens of battlefields, one thing I picked up on was they used strategy of mobility and deception. They often looked beefier than they actually were and used some trickery with their various methods. While they had supply shortages that ultimately cost them, Their Generals and Officers clearly got the upperhand in the bulk of battles from a % standpoint.

We need a DC and Assistant Coaches that are like Wise Field Generals and Officers. It’s not always pure talent that wins the day. It’s knowing your competition and having multiple layers of strategies that invoke counter strategies that you are already prepared for. I think that Hafley being closer in age also seems to help and I like his ties to SF. What they do works.


Bringing in Edgerrin Cooper, Bullard and McKinney are going to pay dividends. All 3 of those guys look like upgrades to last years #10 scoring defense. I also think getting a starting caliber CB (Stokes) into the fray is going to help. It’s almost like we picked up FOUR Top 50 overall draft picks but ranging from Rookies to 4 year starters. I was never impressed with Savage, he played like you’d expect from an earlier Day 3 type.

 

[Thirteen Below]

I really believe that Coaching is a bigger part of a Defenses success than most of us realize. It’s not just possessing knowledge and energy like Barry actually did. Theres a true art that some DC’s have that enabled them to use players strengths like a military campaign.

Yes, absolutely. Teams need a leader they can believe in, and that's something they never had with Barry. I think he was very well-liked, but over the last year it became more and more clear that they simpley didn't trust his leadership. And if players (especially defensive players, perhaps) don't believe in or even fully understand what it is they're being asked to do, their performance will be sub-optimial.

And that alone is a huge reason I expect the D to stand up and deliver this year - the players are nuts about Hafley, excited about his scheme, and believe he is putting them in a better position to win than they've been in for years. That's about as "tangible" a factor as an intangible factor can get, and I think we're going to see that on the field every week..

The Confederate armies were almost always undermanned in a 3:1, 2:1 or 3:2 ratio. Including Parrot guns. Yet from visiting dozens of battlefields, one thing I picked up on was they used strategy of mobility and deception. They often looked beefier than they actually were and used some trickery with their various methods. While they had supply shortages that ultimately cost them, Their Generals and Officers clearly got the upperhand in the bulk of battles from a % standpoint.

Living in the South, and visiting some of the major battlefields (one just a few miles from a small farm we own) and driving very often through the terrain where some of the campaigns were conducted, I can easily get a sense of how much differently the war could have gone if just a couple of things had been different.

There were many inflection points (especially early in the war) where it could have had a different result. Just a couple of different decisions at the Battle of Malvern Hill in the Peninsula Campaign in 62, or at Gettysburg exactly 1 year and 2 days later, and the South could have achieved a victory. And whenever I drive through the Cumberland Gap on my way to Atlanta, I can hardly believe that any attacking force could have fought its way through that terrain.

Not just good coaching, but damned good personnel. Even outnumbered 2-1, those Southerners consistently had the manpower advantage, time and again. Those were men.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yes, absolutely. Teams need a leader they can believe in, and that's something they never had with Barry. I think he was very well-liked, but over the last year it became more and more clear that they simpley didn't trust his leadership. And if players (especially defensive players, perhaps) don't believe in or even fully understand what it is they're being asked to do, their performance will be sub-optimial.

And that alone is a huge reason I expect the D to stand up and deliver this year - the players are nuts about Hafley, excited about his scheme, and believe he is putting them in a better position to win than they've been in for years. That's about as "tangible" a factor as an intangible factor can get, and I think we're going to see that on the field every week..




Living in the South, and visiting some of the major battlefields (one just a few miles from a small farm we own) and driving very often through the terrain where some of the campaigns were conducted, I can easily get a sense of how much differently the war could have gone if just a couple of things had been different.

There were many inflection points (especially early in the war) where it could have had a different result. Just a couple of different decisions at the Battle of Malvern Hill in the Peninsula Campaign in 62, or at Gettysburg exactly 1 year and 2 days later, and the South could have achieved a victory. And whenever I drive through the Cumberland Gap on my way to Atlanta, I can hardly believe that any attacking force could have fought its way through that terrain.

Not just good coaching, but damned good personnel. Even outnumbered 2-1, those Southerners consistently had the manpower advantage, time and again. Those were men.

Yes! I’ve obviously been to Getty. Climbed Devils Den etc. Did the car CD audio tour. I lived about 20 miles from Malvern Hill so we’d stop at the Cannons, Park and walk the trail to the James River. (I lived in Richmond for 25 years and lived on the James at Pony Pasture and Brown island. I’ve swam across the Mississippi and James Rivers multiple times and that’s Honest truth. Although the Mississipi I was left on a sandbar so I kinda had to!
At Malvern Hill witnesses said there were so many wounded in the Battlefield that the Earth took an appearance of moving or as if it was crawling with bodies. You’ll see it in literature and poems. From wounded crawling on the ground etc. 6,000+ wounded. Over 1,000+ just missing. I visited Crater Road, Richmond Battlefield and I worked in Mechanicsville, so did most of the Sevens Day sites (multiple times) I ate lunch at Cold Harbor battlefield Park a dozen times. Love the history. Also did Charleston Harbor (Fort Sumter) where the first shot fired. Then my best friend across 5 years parents had a large Cattle Farm in Farmville, like 20 minutes from Appomattox, so stood in the Spot where Lee surrendered. My favorite spot is Antietam, they light it with candles for each life lost at night once annually. It’s impressive but very sad. Oh and nearby Harper’s Ferry is a must. I’ve Run those Mountains by foot doing the simulated March to Meet Stonewall.
My great uncle (My late Grandma Fritzy said I’m her Brothers Twin) died on Juno. Sorry wrong era I know but True Story. Maybe I’ve got a little Gump in me !. I feel at home at those places and who goes to eat lunch on battlefields

PS. Edgerrin is going to do some Battle

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I love Edgerrin Cooper as a draft prospect but does the fact that the Rams traded a REALLY good off-ball linebacker to the Titans for a fifth-round/sixth-round pick swap not sort of illustrate the true value of the off-ball linebacker position? The Packers used a second-round pick on a guy who the Packers will be happy becomes as good or a little better than a guy who just got traded for the difference between a fifth and sixth round pick. I'm not going to go back and do some analysis of who else the team could have drafted besides Cooper, but wouldn't the team be better now and in the short-term with a certified top-15 off-ball linebacker and whoever they could have drafted in the second rather than Cooper and extra cap space? I don't pretend to know the answer and maybe Cooper becomes the next Fred Warner but it's certainly something I think people should think about relative to positional value and the draft.