2023 week 4 TNF vs the Lions pregame thread

[gopkrs]

I trust the offense.
But I'll never feel comfortable with Barry's style of defense! I feel it keeps the defense on the field too long and the scheme leaves receivers open to make plays.
Watson will definitely play, if not, then it was a waste of a roster spot.

imho Nobody can predict how a hamstring injury is going to heal or if. And so with a very good player; you leave him on the 53.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I guess I kinda like the Lions. The hate just isn't there like it is for the other divisional rivals or others like the Cowboys or Niners. Maybe that'll change if both our teams are in an up cycle simultaneously, but not yet.

I'm guessing for most Packer fans, the Bears and the Vikings have been the traditional "hated rivals"...Partly because of geography, but perhaps more-so because the Lions were so non-threatening. They were just this cute funny little team that was never a contender.

That is changing now, and the Lions appear to be the best team in the NFC North, at least for the present. Maybe the Pack will have something to say about that.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'm guessing for most Packer fans, the Bears and the Vikings have been the traditional "hated rivals"...Partly because of geography, but perhaps more-so because the Lions were so non-threatening. They were just this cute funny little team that was never a contender.

That is changing now, and the Lions appear to be the best team in the NFC North, at least for the present. Maybe the Pack will have something to say about that.

The Lions will have to prove that to me Thursday night. I remain unconvinced.

 

[MichiganSportsTalk]

The Lions will have to prove that to me Thursday night. I remain unconvinced.

Genuinely curious about this statement.

Lions have won the past 3 meetings between the two teams.
Lions have arguably improved on both sides of the ball since the last meeting.
Packers have replaced Aaron Rodgers with Jordan Love (for better or worse).

I admit, I've not paid close enough attention to the Packers this year to know how they've changed in other areas of the team, but why is this game so much more important than recent history and observed roster changes and their impact?

 

[El Guapo]

My other worry is not have Jaire. Valentine got banged up Sunday. You know Goff will be looking for St. Brown as well as their new TE. We have to bring the pass rush. Montgomery is the other concern.

Agreed. Our defensive line as been borderline great in all aspects - except for tackling Bijan Robinson. They need to be that again to help out the CBs this week. St. Brown lines up in the slot and will likely match up with Nixon a lot. Still, using our 3rd string CB opposite Rasuul could change that norm for Detroit. Similar to Christian Watson and others, Jaire was upgraded from DNP to "limited" yesterday, so there is hope that he will be out there. Regardless, he will be tender with a bad back and even less willing than usual to make a tackle in run support. Savage needs to continue to be the man.

 

[El Guapo]

The Lions will have to prove that to me Thursday night. I remain unconvinced.

Despite his initial 'biting kneecaps' proclamation, Dan Campbell has put together a tough team. They were a very good offense last year with a poor defense. Hutchinson and their rookie safety (can't remember his name) along with Jack Campbell (great pick at LB) have really transformed their defense. Arguable,o the Packers were on the receiving end of Detroit's two best games last season. I expect nothing less this week. Coach Campbell is a player coach. The team has taken on his tough personality and they've now brought it to the Packers three games in a row. Yes they haven't established themselves as a consistently dominant team yet, but they have started dominating their top NFC North rival. Step 1 - check.

 

[gopkrs]

Genuinely curious about this statement.

Lions have won the past 3 meetings between the two teams.
Lions have arguably improved on both sides of the ball since the last meeting.
Packers have replaced Aaron Rodgers with Jordan Love (for better or worse).

I admit, I've not paid close enough attention to the Packers this year to know how they've changed in other areas of the team, but why is this game so much more important than recent history and observed roster changes and their impact?

The game is more important because the lions seem to be the team we have to beat and it is just a divisional game anyway. But I think you are right. The lions are tough. Their D line is tough and not only is Goff playing his best; but they have a really good receiver and rookie TE and Goff is having quite a bit of time to throw.

 

[OldSchool101]

imho Nobody can predict how a hamstring injury is going to heal or if. And so with a very good player; you leave him on the 53.

Yeah it’s tricky guessing that stuff.
It seems as we hold on to the premier players (high impact players) in hopes they return at, before or just after that 4 week parameter.


Also I think there’s still a 21 day clock once they are IR’d and return from that designation. If they don’t get activated in that window? They go back to IR and are out for the season. I guess they walk gingerly with that designation, especially for high caliber starters

 

[El Guapo]

Now you can go back to the early 60's when the Lion teams consisted of Alex Karras, Roger Brown, Joe Schmidt, Night Train Lane, Milt Plum, Yale Lary, Gail Cogdill, and Darris McCord.

Richard (can't use his regular name) Night Train Lane...one of my favorites. Any time a sport needs to consistently make rules based on your play, that's something. He was such a viscious hitter. The video below reminded me that he had 14 INTs in his rookie season (12 games). Impressive!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[PackerRyche]

I'm not sure of his actual career stats against blitz/rush pressure, but my sense of Goff is that he does not perform well. I note that the Falcons had -0- sacks last game. Goff went 22/33 for 243 and an interception. I think we will do a better job of applying pressure on him.

 

[formerlybis]

Genuinely curious about this statement.

Lions have won the past 3 meetings between the two teams.
Lions have arguably improved on both sides of the ball since the last meeting.
Packers have replaced Aaron Rodgers with Jordan Love (for better or worse).

I admit, I've not paid close enough attention to the Packers this year to know how they've changed in other areas of the team, but why is this game so much more important than recent history and observed roster changes and their impact?

Don't get offended, but the Lions haven't really proven they are capable of winning the division. It's more than head-to-head. I believe you're trending toward being the top contender NFCC champ, but it is correct to be skeptical, because, well, you're the Lions.

If you just look at who has been added and lost from last year, that's too literal of a way to look at it - how they are executing is the main thing. GB's been competitive enough to win all their games so far (but didn't win at Atlanta in a game they choked away) without their primary offensive weapons or line being intact, and making about a thousand self-inflicted mistakes. They haven't come close to their potential/ceiling and yet they're still holding their own - when they get people back and clean up the mistakes, they could be formidable.

 

[Pugger]

I'm guessing for most Packer fans, the Bears and the Vikings have been the traditional "hated rivals"...Partly because of geography, but perhaps more-so because the Lions were so non-threatening. They were just this cute funny little team that was never a contender.

That is changing now, and the Lions appear to be the best team in the NFC North, at least for the present. Maybe the Pack will have something to say about that.

We may not have enough to say this year but if Love and his offensive cohorts keep improving Detroit's reign at the top of the NFCN could be short lived.

 

[El Guapo]

My apologies to the Lions fan on this thread, but does anyone else remember the game in 92 or 93 when we played Detroit in the playoffs and held the great Barry Sanders to -1yd rushing for the entire game? Bryce Paup, Jurko, and Reggie pursued him everywhere he tried to run. I never in my life imagined that anyone could contain Barry for an entire game. He had won the NFL rushing title that season.

Imagine if Sanders would've had the leverage that Aaron Rodgers had at the end of his career to affect a trade. He could have gone to a SB-bound team and chased the championship that he wanted so badly.

 

[OldSchool101]

My apologies to the Lions fan on this thread, but does anyone else remember the game in 92 or 93 when we played Detroit in the playoffs and held the great Barry Sanders to -1yd rushing for the entire game? Bryce Paup, Jurko, and Reggie pursued him everywhere he tried to run. I never in my life imagined that anyone could contain Barry for an entire game. He had won the NFL rushing title that season.

Imagine if Sanders would've had the leverage that Aaron Rodgers had at the end of his career to affect a trade. He could have gone to a SB-bound team and chased the championship that he wanted so badly.

I remember that!

There’s one thing about the NFL that is a phenomena. Intra Division teams are the most likely upsets.

 

[MichiganSportsTalk]

I'm not sure of his actual career stats against blitz/rush pressure, but my sense of Goff is that he does not perform well. I note that the Falcons had -0- sacks last game. Goff went 22/33 for 243 and an interception. I think we will do a better job of applying pressure on him.

He actually does pretty decent under pressure. When he came to the Lions, I had a similar opinion of him. I have (happily) been proven wrong. He was ranked something like 3rd last year for QBR under pressure. That being said, he's thrown a pick in the last 2 games they've played (the one against Seattle his arm was hit while throwing), but that not concerned about that (yet). If the O line is still banged up, I could see him making a mistake or two again, though.

 

[MichiganSportsTalk]

Don't get offended, but the Lions haven't really proven they are capable of winning the division. It's more than head-to-head. I believe you're trending toward being the top contender NFCC champ, but it is correct to be skeptical, because, well, you're the Lions.

If you just look at who has been added and lost from last year, that's too literal of a way to look at it - how they are executing is the main thing. GB's been competitive enough to win all their games so far (but didn't win at Atlanta in a game they choked away) without their primary offensive weapons or line being intact, and making about a thousand self-inflicted mistakes. They haven't come close to their potential/ceiling and yet they're still holding their own - when they get people back and clean up the mistakes, they could be formidable.

No offense taken.

If we are only talking this year, then neither team has really proven they are capable of winning the division (though Chi and Min have proven they definitely will not). It's still a small sample size.

That being said...

According to PFF:
Det - 2nd in Offense, 17th in Defense, 17th in special teams. 72 points for, 63 against
GB - 21st in Offense, 13th in Defense, 29th in special teams. 80 points for, 62 against

GB opponents to this point are a combined 4-5
Det opponents to this point are a combined 6-3

Both teams sit at 2-1 with some key pieces missing.

From that perspective, I can see your argument for why this game will be more informative as it relates to the NFC North than recent history. The two teams appear to be more alike at this point than they are different.

 

[milani]

Don't get offended, but the Lions haven't really proven they are capable of winning the division. It's more than head-to-head. I believe you're trending toward being the top contender NFCC champ, but it is correct to be skeptical, because, well, you're the Lions.

If you just look at who has been added and lost from last year, that's too literal of a way to look at it - how they are executing is the main thing. GB's been competitive enough to win all their games so far (but didn't win at Atlanta in a game they choked away) without their primary offensive weapons or line being intact, and making about a thousand self-inflicted mistakes. They haven't come close to their potential/ceiling and yet they're still holding their own - when they get people back and clean up the mistakes, they could be formidable.

One of those wins came on the season finale in which we had already locked up the top seed. Rodgers and starters played a half. The other 2 losses were very close and we easily could have won both.

 

[milani]

Li

No offense taken.

If we are only talking this year, then neither team has really proven they are capable of winning the division (though Chi and Min have proven they definitely will not). It's still a small sample size.

That being said...

According to PFF:
Det - 2nd in Offense, 17th in Defense, 17th in special teams. 72 points for, 63 against
GB - 21st in Offense, 13th in Defense, 29th in special teams. 80 points for, 62 against

GB opponents to this point are a combined 4-5
Det opponents to this point are a combined 6-3

Both teams sit at 2-1 with some key pieces missing.

From that perspective, I can see your argument for why this game will be more informative as it relates to the NFC North than recent history. The two teams appear to be more alike at this point than they are different

 

[milani]

Despite his initial 'biting kneecaps' proclamation, Dan Campbell has put together a tough team. They were a very good offense last year with a poor defense. Hutchinson and their rookie safety (can't remember his name) along with Jack Campbell (great pick at LB) have really transformed their defense. Arguable,o the Packers were on the receiving end of Detroit's two best games last season. I expect nothing less this week. Coach Campbell is a player coach. The team has taken on his tough personality and they've now brought it to the Packers three games in a row. Yes they haven't established themselves as a consistently dominant team yet, but they have started dominating their top NFC North rival. Step 1 - check.

The Lions won in Arrowhead. With or without Kelce that is an accomplishment.

 

[milani]

I remember that!

There’s one thing about the NFL that is a phenomena. Intra Division teams are the most likely upsets.

It was after the 94 season. Cold day. We won without Sterling Sharpe that day. Favre needed him.

 

[milani]

No offense taken.

If we are only talking this year, then neither team has really proven they are capable of winning the division (though Chi and Min have proven they definitely will not). It's still a small sample size.

That being said...

According to PFF:
Det - 2nd in Offense, 17th in Defense, 17th in special teams. 72 points for, 63 against
GB - 21st in Offense, 13th in Defense, 29th in special teams. 80 points for, 62 against

GB opponents to this point are a combined 4-5
Det opponents to this point are a combined 6-3

Both teams sit at 2-1 with some key pieces missing.

From that perspective, I can see your argument for why this game will be more informative as it relates to the NFC North than recent history. The two teams appear to be more alike at this point than they are different.

The Lions front 7 will come at the Packer line with heavy pressure on both the receivers and the QB. They are not afraid of a long game breaker. The Packers have to find some way to run the ball to have any success. And so far that is not our strength. Now with Rodgers gone Love has shown he can escape pressure and run. That is a plus.

 

[milani]

We may not have enough to say this year but if Love and his offensive cohorts keep improving Detroit's reign at the top of the NFCN could be short lived.

Penalties will be a huge factor. So far the Lions have been much better than us in that category. And for decades the Lions lacked discipline. They are very well coached. Another area in which they were a debacle. This game is a shoe on the other foot. It is the Packers that need to pull the upset.

 

[OldSchool101]

No offense taken.

If we are only talking this year, then neither team has really proven they are capable of winning the division (though Chi and Min have proven they definitely will not). It's still a small sample size.

That being said...

According to PFF:
Det - 2nd in Offense, 17th in Defense, 17th in special teams. 72 points for, 63 against
GB - 21st in Offense, 13th in Defense, 29th in special teams. 80 points for, 62 against

GB opponents to this point are a combined 4-5
Det opponents to this point are a combined 6-3

Both teams sit at 2-1 with some key pieces missing.

From that perspective, I can see your argument for why this game will be more informative as it relates to the NFC North than recent history. The two teams appear to be more alike at this point than they are different.

It’s the first time in recent history where I’ve felt like GB might have problems at home due to what I call a robust and determined Detroit team.

Obviously young Skywalker (Love) at QB is an X factor in Lambeau.
Detroit has an explosive Offense, but GB’s Defensive strength is mostly Pass D. Having Gary back near FT with Preston gives our team a totally different feel. It allows us to sub Van Ness and Enagbare as more than decent backups.

We will need to bring our A game on Defense to slow you guys down into that 20-27 point area. Kenny Clark and this iDL might dictate a Win or Loss in the trenches. 25+- points is an area I think Jordan can hang if we clean up slop ball. We self destruct at times because we’re still so new on Offense. We’ll need to bring a more complete game than a self damaging 11 penalties.

This is the season Detroit better Win as the Packers Offense are likely at their low point across the next decade. We hit a Trifecta at QB in the 2020 draft. Jordan is just learning to play. How we are winning games this early into a rebuild and missing key starters left n right is bordering on shocking.

 

[formerlybis]

No offense taken.

If we are only talking this year, then neither team has really proven they are capable of winning the division (though Chi and Min have proven they definitely will not). It's still a small sample size.

That being said...

According to PFF:
Det - 2nd in Offense, 17th in Defense, 17th in special teams. 72 points for, 63 against
GB - 21st in Offense, 13th in Defense, 29th in special teams. 80 points for, 62 against

GB opponents to this point are a combined 4-5
Det opponents to this point are a combined 6-3

Both teams sit at 2-1 with some key pieces missing.

From that perspective, I can see your argument for why this game will be more informative as it relates to the NFC North than recent history. The two teams appear to be more alike at this point than they are different.

I'm not only talking this year. The Lions are easily 4th in a 4-team division over the last 20-30 years. Even though everyone recognizes that you look much better over the past season or so, perception is not so easily overcome until you actually accomplish something. The Pack was in that same position in the early '90s.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm not only talking this year. The Lions are easily 4th in a 4-team division over the last 20-30 years. Even though everyone recognizes that you look much better over the past season or so, perception is not so easily overcome until you actually accomplish something. The Pack was in that same position in the early '90s.

That perception thing is true. Detroit beat KC and smothered Atlanta and went toe to toe with Seattle in a tough OT loss. Objectively they would be scratching a top 5 powe ranking, but because of their stigma nobody believes it yet.