2023 Draft Talk

[tynimiller]

That name Skoronski really brings back memories.

I’d love him here in second round, but iOL I don’t spend first day picks on unless late - be awesome to have another here in GB though!!!!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I’d love him here in second round, but iOL I don’t spend first day picks on unless late - be awesome to have another here in GB though!!!!

Not a #15 pick for me either. That would be more than disappointing.

 

[Todd Princl]

JSN wasn’t available. Skoronski doesn’t have the mold of a high level tackle - personally I think he is the best NFL guard in the draft.

I thought that all the while too. With those shorter arms and not ideal height he will be moved. I like Paris Johnson over him. But in order for us to get him we might have to flip 15 for 13 with the Jets. I have a feeling that they are eying on him as their pick.

 

[Dantés]

Bryan Bresee missed most of 2021 with an ACL.

Then he was a wreck to open 2022 because his 15 yo sister passed away due to brain cancer.

Then in September he got strep and it got into his kidney and he had to be hospitalized and he got out of shape.

I think he could legitimately be a blue chip prospect hidden by terrible circumstances. You wonder if, 2 years down the line, people will be shocked he didn’t go in the top 10.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Bryan Bresee missed most of 2021 with an ACL.

Then he was a wreck to open 2022 because his 15 yo sister passed away due to brain cancer.

Then in September he got strep and it got into his kidney and he had to be hospitalized and he got out of shape.

I think he could legitimately be a blue chip prospect hidden by terrible circumstances. You wonder if, 2 years down the line, people will be shocked he didn’t go in the top 10.

I don't like the recent track record of Clemson DL players, but I'm starting to warm up to Bresee. I'd prefer him to LVN and think he's a better player with potentially a higher ceiling.

 

[Dantés]

I don't like the recent track record of Clemson DL players, but I'm starting to warm up to Bresee. I'd prefer him to LVN and think he's a better player with potentially a higher ceiling.

I've heard this narrative a lot, and I have nodded along with it myself, but when I look into it, there's not really a lot substance to it.

Clelin Ferrell was a major bust at 1.4 in 2019, but basically everyone in the league, media, and public knew that he was a huge reach. That was mostly the Raiders being stupid.

In that same round, the Dolphins took Christian Wilkins and the Giants took Dexter Lawrence. Both have been homeruns. The rest of the misses that I think people would point to are from 7+ drafts ago.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

I've heard this narrative a lot, and I have nodded along with it myself, but when I look into it, there's not really a lot substance to it.

Clelin Ferrell was a major bust at 1.4 in 2019, but basically everyone in the league, media, and public knew that he was a huge reach. That was mostly the Raiders being stupid.

In that same round, the Dolphins took Christian Wilkins and the Giants took Dexter Lawrence. Both have been homeruns. The rest of the misses that I think people would point to are from 7+ drafts ago.

I think it's mostly due to Ferrell, Vic Beasley, and Shaq Lawson either busting or not living up to the hype. Lawrence definitely seems to be getting better under Wink, but he's definitely not the disruptive force he was a Clemson, but he's young and still has time to grow. Not a bad player, just doesn't consistently flash the pass rush that was expected especially with the other talent that's on that line. So, I wouldn't necessarily say home run, but a good piece for the team.

Funny that you mention people calling Ferrell a bust before that draft because I've seen a bunch of people say the same about Myles, but maybe not as much as there were for Ferrell.

 

[Dantés]

I think it's mostly due to Ferrell, Vic Beasley, and Shaq Lawson either busting or not living up to the hype. Lawrence definitely seems to be getting better under Wink, but he's definitely not the disruptive force he was a Clemson, but he's young and still has time to grow. Not a bad player, just doesn't consistently flash the pass rush that was expected especially with the other talent that's on that line. So, I wouldn't necessarily say home run, but a good piece for the team.

Funny that you mention people calling Ferrell a bust before that draft because I've seen a bunch of people say the same about Myles, but maybe not as much as there were for Ferrell.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying though-- Beasley and Lawson were drafted a long time ago.

We definitely disagree on Lawrence. He's an elite 1T/Shade. I don't know what else could be expected from that selection.

I have heard that about Murphy. I don't get it.

He turned 21 in January.

He's played three seasons for Clemson and he's had 11.5, 14.0, and 11 TFL respectively.

He ran a 4.51 at 268 lbs at his pro day and his overall RAS was 9.71.

Someone needs to explain to me why the young, super productive freak athlete is a bust in the making. The only thing I can come up with is that people are running with this narrative that Clemson DL can't play. Which is silly.

 

[GleefulGary]

Clemson isn’t doing anything super special or unique on defense to get their players better stats. You can argue because there’s a lot of talent that it makes it harder to double one guy, but that’s true at all the big football programs.

I just don’t buy into the “can’t draft this position from this school” discourse. No offense to any, but it’s lazy. Look at the traits. Look at the measurables. Look at the tape. If it’s all good, that’s a pretty safe prospect.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying though-- Beasley and Lawson were drafted a long time ago.

We definitely disagree on Lawrence. He's an elite 1T/Shade. I don't know what else could be expected from that selection.

I have heard that about Murphy. I don't get it.

He turned 21 in January.

He's played three seasons for Clemson and he's had 11.5, 14.0, and 11 TFL respectively.

He ran a 4.51 at 268 lbs at his pro day and his overall RAS was 9.71.

Someone needs to explain to me why the young, super productive freak athlete is a bust in the making. The only thing I can come up with is that people are running with this narrative that Clemson DL can't play. Which is silly.

I think it's because his production was way down this year with what was supposed to be a loaded front. He also looked pretty bad in run support at times(especially against ND) and he was subbed out a lot for lack of production. He's definitely a freak, but it doesn't always translate to the tape, especially this past year. Ya, it could have been do to injuries, but he didn't put up much to watch which is why he's being comped to Gary, but at least Gary had reps where teams were actively running away from him and of him getting triple teamed at times. He has a ton of potential, but his highest graded year was two years ago.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Clemson isn’t doing anything super special or unique on defense to get their players better stats. You can argue because there’s a lot of talent that it makes it harder to double one guy, but that’s true at all the big football programs.

I just don’t buy into the “can’t draft this position from this school” discourse. No offense to any, but it’s lazy. Look at the traits. Look at the measurables. Look at the tape. If it’s all good, that’s a pretty safe prospect.

I agree, just looking at the school is lazy, but when there are multiple potential first rounders on the defensive line, shouldn't it be easier to have them pop on tape? That just wasn't the case for Clemson this year and they have two potential first rounders on the defense, yet neither Bresee or Murphy really popped off the film. Murphy even looked plain bad at time and never really matched or improved from his 2020 season.

 

[Dantés]

I think it's because his production was way down this year with what was supposed to be a loaded front. He also looked pretty bad in run support at times(especially against ND) and he was subbed out a lot for lack of production. He's definitely a freak, but it doesn't always translate to the tape, especially this past year. Ya, it could have been do to injuries, but he didn't put up much to watch which is why he's being comped to Gary, but at least Gary had reps where teams were actively running away from him and of him getting triple teamed at times. He has a ton of potential, but his highest graded year was two years ago.

On balance of his three seasons at Clemson, he was an elite run defender. By his own standards, he was worse in 2022, but not bad by any means. Seems that the whole defensive front struggled at times. But he certainly was not getting subbed out more. He played his most snaps across the board in 2022.

Snaps:

2020- 423
2021- 552
2022- 586

Pass Rush Snaps:

2020- 224
2021- 332
2022- 355

Run Defense Snaps:

2020- 184
2021- 201
2022- 214

Pass Rush Production:

2020- 5 sacks, 3 QB hits
2021- 9 sacks, 0 QB hits
2022- 6 sacks, 7 QB hits

 

[Dantés]

I agree, just looking at the school is lazy, but when there are multiple potential first rounders on the defensive line, shouldn't it be easier to have them pop on tape? That just wasn't the case for Clemson this year and they have two potential first rounders on the defense, yet neither Bresee or Murphy really popped off the film. Murphy even looked plain bad at time and never really matched or improved from his 2020 season.

But that's where I think you're wrong. They did pop off the tape. Both players had some of the most dominant snaps you'll see anywhere last year. But for various reasons, they weren't as consistent as they'd been previously.

However, you're talking about young, elite athletes who had a lot of good tape in college. I can't understand dismissing them.

And I would add this-- Murphy might not have exceeded the hype in 2022, but his 2021 was his best season by a long shot. He absolutely improved on his 2020 season. I don't really understand that comment. He played more, he was the same player against the run, he had more pass rush production.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

But that's where I think you're wrong. They did pop off the tape. Both players had some of the most dominant snaps you'll see anywhere last year. But for various reasons, they weren't as consistent as they'd been previously.

However, you're talking about young, elite athletes who had a lot of good tape in college. I can't understand dismissing them.

And I would add this-- Murphy might not have exceeded the hype in 2022, but his 2021 was his best season by a long shot. He absolutely improved on his 2020 season. I don't really understand that comment. He played more, he was the same player against the run, he had more pass rush production.

I absolutely could be wrong and that's ok.

Like I said, I'm warming up to Bresee and I think you're right, there were times where they showed up, but weren't consistent. It could have been injuries for Murphy like I said above, but I did watch a handful of Clemson games. The Notre Dame game in particular stood out because they got dominated and Murphy definitely flattened at times. Bresee I could see not mentally being there this year and I get that.

I'm also summarizing some of the things I've seen said about Murphy in particular because I'm not the only one seeing it. He's not consistent and didn't live up to what people were thinking he could be. Remember, Carter and him were neck and neck for best DL before the season started. Again, we could all be wrong, I'm not and expert and I'm not going to flip my lid if we draft either of them, there's potential there for sure.

 

[Dantés]

I absolutely could be wrong and that's ok.

Like I said, I'm warming up to Bresee and I think you're right, there were times where they showed up, but weren't consistent. It could have been injuries for Murphy like I said above, but I did watch a handful of Clemson games. The Notre Dame game in particular stood out because they got dominated and Murphy definitely flattened at times. Bresee I could see not mentally being there this year and I get that.

I'm also summarizing some of the things I've seen said about Murphy in particular because I'm not the only one seeing it. He's not consistent and didn't live up to what people were thinking he could be. Remember, Carter and him were neck and neck for best DL before the season started. Again, we could all be wrong, I'm not and expert and I'm not going to flip my lid if we draft either of them, there's potential there for sure.

I hear what you’re saying. He’s not a flawless prospect. If he was, he wouldn’t be in the conversatio for pick #15. My point is simply this:

If you get rid of the outside noise (i.e. preseason expectations and Clemson narrative) and just look at what Murphy is…

-Premium position
-36.5 TFL in 3 seasons in the ACC
-6’5” 270#
-9.71 RAS
-21 yo for entire rookie season
-Tons of great run defense on tape

That’s a really good prospect. I think sometimes the storyline of the drama that is college football can drown out some of the reality on the field.

 

[Schultz]

Saw a couple of mocks on the NFL Network. One guy had Paris Johnson to GB at #15 and Kincaid to WASH. at #16. The other guy had Kincaid to GB and Johnson to WASH. Around here most do not feel Johnson would be there at 15 yet a couple of so called experts do. My question is if this hypothetical held up do you take Kincaid or Johnson? Both are help for the inexperienced Love. I know who I would take.

 

[tynimiller]

Saw a couple of mocks on the NFL Network. One guy had Paris Johnson to GB at #15 and Kincaid to WASH. at #16. The other guy had Kincaid to GB and Johnson to WASH. Around here most do not feel Johnson would be there at 15 yet a couple of so called experts do. My question is if this hypothetical held up do you take Kincaid or Johnson? Both are help for the inexperienced Love. I know who I would take.

That’s a discussion I pray we get to have draft night!

 

[Dantés]

Saw a couple of mocks on the NFL Network. One guy had Paris Johnson to GB at #15 and Kincaid to WASH. at #16. The other guy had Kincaid to GB and Johnson to WASH. Around here most do not feel Johnson would be there at 15 yet a couple of so called experts do. My question is if this hypothetical held up do you take Kincaid or Johnson? Both are help for the inexperienced Love. I know who I would take.

Definitely Paris Johnson for me.

 

[thequick12]

I’d love him here in second round, but iOL I don’t spend first day picks on unless late - be awesome to have another here in GB though!!!!

Despite the arm length, he'll be able to play tackle due to his intelligence and mirroring ability

 

[tynimiller]

Despite the arm length, he'll be able to play tackle due to his intelligence and mirroring ability

So I don't envision how someone can definitively state it as such when he would be a very big outlier. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I'm also not betting with a first round pick in that fashion. Now, don't get me wrong I think a Skoronski pick by the Packers would be awesome, because I truly think Tom has a better chance of playing tackle in the future than Jenkins - Jenkins has illustrated to me he is an ELITE level guard and a serviceable tackle....which honestly is kinda how I envision Skoronski if I were to bet. Pick Skoronski you automatically free up Tom to either be our swing tackle when Bakh and/or Yosh go down but also I think that means he is taking Myers center spot in 2023 from him.

This OL group is not terrible but imagine a world where instantly you have possibly Newman as your back up guard and RT (doable service proven), Runyan a guard back up, Myers your center back up....I'm feeling very nice about that group.

 

[thequick12]

So I don't envision how someone can definitively state it as such when he would be a very big outlier. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I'm also not betting with a first round pick in that fashion. Now, don't get me wrong I think a Skoronski pick by the Packers would be awesome, because I truly think Tom has a better chance of playing tackle in the future than Jenkins - Jenkins has illustrated to me he is an ELITE level guard and a serviceable tackle....which honestly is kinda how I envision Skoronski if I were to bet. Pick Skoronski you automatically free up Tom to either be our swing tackle when Bakh and/or Yosh go down but also I think that means he is taking Myers center spot in 2023 from him.

This OL group is not terrible but imagine a world where instantly you have possibly Newman as your back up guard and RT (doable service proven), Runyan a guard back up, Myers your center back up....I'm feeling very nice about that group.

So right now charlie weiss just said essentially the same thing on nfl radio...he added something I left out, ill paraphrase.

Snorski can be a day one 10 year starter as an nfl tackle. However he could have a pro bowl/all pro career as a guard. So hes much like Jenkins very good as a tackle great as a guard

 

[tynimiller]

So right now charlie weiss just said essentially the same thing on nfl radio...he added something I left out, ill paraphrase.

Snorski can be a day one 10 year starter as an nfl tackle. However he could have a pro bowl/all pro career as a guard. So hes much like Jenkins very good as a tackle great as a guard

I gotta revisit my thinking if Weiss agrees LOL

 

[tynimiller]

Few @Dantés inspired type propositions - which would you rather of the options below - for this "pretend" we stick and only have the additional 2023 second rounder from Jets to play with also:

Option 1
Dalton Kincaid TE
Blake Freeland OT
Cedric Tillman WR
Keondre Coburn DL

OR

Option 2
Joey Porter Jr CB
Darnell Wright OT
Sam LaPorta TE
Xavier Hutchinson WR

OR

Option 3
Nolan Smith EDGE
Darnell Washington TE
Brian Branch S
Michael Wilson WR


Which option you taking?

 

[Schultz]

#2 please.

 

[Dantés]

#2 please.

co-signed.

I'm not desperate for a round 1 corner, but the 2nd grouping would be the best haul imo.