150 - Kingsley Keke DE

[gbgary]

I don't know why you would say Gary "won't play much" and if you see Gary and Z. Smith playing down in dime there is no reason to think they won't get some snaps in nickel.

There is no reason to think it will be all the time, since it certainly won't be, or both at the same time, but by the end of the season it could be a full rotational equivalent between them.

right. they're rotating guys in all the time, injuries happen. he'll get playing time for sure. who knows? he might blow everyone away and start day one.

 

[gbgary]

Well I said barring injury because Gary is at best a project and 4th in line among standup linebackers and in most Nickle situations hes going to be behind Z Smith, Clark and Daniels on the line

Gary is a project at best. He shouldnt be penciled in for anything this year. Sure the coaches might coach him up quickly but odds are it's going to take at least a year to turn him into a productive player if they're able to

gary? a project? a guy who was supposed to be a top 10 pick? nah...he's better than that.

 

[RRyder]

gary? a project? a guy who was supposed to be a top 10 pick? nah...he's better than that.

He is a project. Not sure what some people having him projected as matters when alot of people also didnt think he should've went that high

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He is a project. Not sure what some people having him projected as matters when alot of people also didnt think he should've went that high

As are most of the picks in the draft. Very few of them are just plug and play guys. So from my perspective, when you keep hammering that aspect home, it sounds like he is beyond what a normal rookie needs to be ready to go.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

He is a project. Not sure what some people having him projected as matters when alot of people also didnt think he should've went that high

Who are those people? People with 0 years experience in an NFL Front Office? I wasn't jazzed on the pick myself but I never saw Gary making it outside the Top 15. I actually had him mocked to the Dolphins right behind us.

 

[RRyder]

As are most of the picks in the draft. Very few of them are just plug and play guys. So from my perspective, when you keep hammering that aspect home, it sounds like he is beyond what a normal rookie needs to be ready to go.

Hes a guy that has the physical tools but needs to be coached up and learn technique to hopefully play at a higher level then he was able to play in college and will also be playing a different position.

That's pretty much textbook for the definition of a project

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hes a guy that has the physical tools but needs to be coached up and learn technique to hopefully play at a higher level then he was able to play in college and will also be playing a different position.

That's pretty much textbook for the definition of a project

Pretty much text book for most guys coming out of college.

While I agree with you that he probably has more untapped potential than many of the first rounders and that is going to take coaching to get it out of him but I think the Packers are banking on just that.

 

[RRyder]

Pretty much text book for most guys coming out of college.

While I agree with you that he probably has more untapped potential than many of the first rounders and that is going to take coaching to get it out of him but I think the Packers are banking on just that.

I'd guarantee that they're banking on it. Just saying hes still a project and that it takes time to coach a guy up

 

[Pugger]

So many defensive players. I was hoping we'd buffer the offense.

All of these defensive players drafted tells me our coaching staff felt that side of the ball needed the most attention. As they say, defense wins championships. When we won the last 2 Lombardi's we had an excellent defense.

 

[HardRightEdge]

right. they're rotating guys in all the time, injuries happen. he'll get playing time for sure. who knows? he might blow everyone away and start day one.

You don't take a guy with the 12th. pick if you're not planning to give him significant snaps.

You should not be surprised if the first nickel snap of the season isn't P. Smith and Gary on the edge and Clark and Z. Smith inside. If not then you won't be waiting very long to see it.

 

[sschind]

Mack, Smith, and Cashman were all players I liked for GB too.

I like Joe Jackson, but he doesn't fit here in GB. And he tested terribly.

Can't go around Green Bay in December and January with no shoes.

 

[sschind]

All of these defensive players drafted tells me our coaching staff felt that side of the ball needed the most attention. As they say, defense wins championships. When we won the last 2 Lombardi's we had an excellent defense.

Nope, just says that when it was time for Gute to pick all the players at the top of his board were defensive players. Becasue ...you know...BPA and all that.

 

[sschind]

You don't take a guy with the 12th. pick if you're not planning to give him significant snaps.

You should not be surprised if the first nickel snap of the season isn't P. Smith and Gary on the edge and Clark and Z. Smith inside. If not then you won't be waiting very long to see it.

You don't take a guy at 12 without planning on giving him significant snaps but you do pay a guy starter OL money to have him be a backup?

Totally busting your chops on that one HRE it was meant as a joke and nothing else.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Well I said barring injury because Gary is at best a project and 4th in line among standup linebackers and in most Nickle situations hes going to be behind Z Smith, Clark and Daniels on the line

Gary is a project at best. He shouldnt be penciled in for anything this year. Sure the coaches might coach him up quickly but odds are it's going to take at least a year to turn him into a productive player if they're able to

If bold and unqualified statements is what we're about, then I'd say by season's end Gary's snap count will be higher than either Daniels or Fackrell. Fackrell has developed into a decent player, no more than that, with his sack count an illusion. Over the last two seasons Daniels came under internal criticism for "do your job" issues and is now showing decline followed by injury.

 

[HardRightEdge]

You don't take a guy at 12 without planning on giving him significant snaps but you do pay a guy starter OL money to have him be a backup?

I assume you mean Lane Taylor. He might beat out the rookie for the job this year. He might sit on the bench. I think it is clear the Packers would like to see the 2nd. round pick win the job and, as a second rounder, they should expect it. Whatever progression was anticipated when he signed his current contract, it didn't happen. He's somewhere between serviceable and adequate and you have to wonder how much worse he'd look if he was playing next to lesser players than Bakhtiari and Linsley.

As for Taylor'smoney, there is a legacy contract involved with signing bonus hangover. Assuming Taylor has earned or will earn his workout bonus, the question becomes is he worth keeping as a backup given the cap savings is $1.725 mil if cut or traded. That savings is not much compensation for dropping a backup OG with starter experience.

Legacy contracts and fresh #12 picks are apples and oranges.

You might as well have cited Tramon Williams, a dime CB, King insurance, backup safety in a pinch, and psudo-coach. Under the best case scenario he'd only see dime snaps. His cap number is $6.375 mil, starting safety money, but that's not the relevant number either. His cap savings if cut is $3.65 mil assuming again the workout bonus is or will be earned. Is he worth that? Given the circumstances it is hard to argue he isn't.

 

[scotscheese]

so we have keke de, all we need is elton john for a duet

 

[HardRightEdge]

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/kingsley-keke

Kingsley Keke is one of the oddest players I've ever scouted. On one hand, he has wild flexibility and bend for an interior defensive lineman, capable of contorting his body to reduce his surface area while cornering some tough angles to the pocket. On the other hand, he's not explosive at all and takes several steps to get to top speed. He has some terrific rush moves, but he's slow to deploy them at times and doesn't finish as often as you'd like to see.

Yeah, there is some stuff even in his highlights that might qualify as strange or bad. If one were looking for something to like, see the play at 1:00 in this video, which says 5-tech:

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On the other hand, the spin move at 0:25 looks a bit mechanical and probably won't play in prime time.

There's work to be done here particularly in the strength department. The question is whether you have to give him a roster spot or if he can be snuck onto the practice squad.

 

[RRyder]

If bold and unqualified statements is what we're about, then I'd say by season's end Gary's snap count will be higher than either Daniels or Fackrell. Fackrell has developed into a decent player, no more than that, with his sack count an illusion. Over the last two seasons Daniels came under internal criticism for "do your job" issues and is now showing decline followed by injury.

Not sure how saying a guy who wasnt great in college because he was lacking in everything football related outside of his pure physical traits on top of now being asked to play as a stand up player the majority of the time and as such would require an extra amount of coaching up and time to be a contributor (ie:a project) is somehow a bold and unqualified statement. If that's not a project then what is?

But whatever he was picked 12 so he must be ready to play. Cant believe that's an actuall counter point (not by you) but ok.

It's fine to hope that he can get coached up quickly but he still should be considered a project right now.

 

[HardRightEdge]

But whatever he was picked 12 so he must be ready to play. Cant believe that's an actuall counter point (not by you) but ok.

"...he was lacking in everything football related outside of his pure physical traits..."

That is an overstatement if I ever heard one.

It is nearly a truism, coming from me or anybody else, that a #12 is expected to start or see heavy rotation. They will play him and keep playing him up to a point where his liabilities are intolerable. Burks last season is an example, illustrated in another thread.

I don't believe his liabilities will outweigh his plusses, and he will keep getting snaps. Rookies make mistakes, need development, but if they don't play in money games they don't learn.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well I said barring injury because Gary is at best a project and 4th in line among standup linebackers and in most Nickle situations hes going to be behind Z Smith, Clark and Daniels on the line

Gary is a project at best. He shouldnt be penciled in for anything this year. Sure the coaches might coach him up quickly but odds are it's going to take at least a year to turn him into a productive player if they're able to

Do you honestly think that GB would use a #12 overall for a player project? You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but you have to know that you are in a very small minority on that one.

 

[sschind]

I assume you mean Lane Taylor. He might beat out the rookie for the job this year. He might sit on the bench. I think it is clear the Packers would like to see the 2nd. round pick win the job and, as a second rounder, they should expect it. Whatever progression was anticipated when he signed his current contract, it didn't happen. He's somewhere between serviceable and adequate and you have to wonder how much worse he'd look if he was playing next to lesser players than Bakhtiari and Linsley.

As for Taylor'smoney, there is a legacy contract involved with signing bonus hangover. Assuming Taylor has earned or will earn his workout bonus, the question becomes is he worth keeping as a backup given the cap savings is $1.725 mil if cut or traded. That savings is not much compensation for dropping a backup OG with starter experience.

Legacy contracts and fresh #12 picks are apples and oranges.

You might as well have cited Tramon Williams, a dime CB, King insurance, backup safety in a pinch, and psudo-coach. Under the best case scenario he'd only see dime snaps. His cap number is $6.375 mil, starting safety money, but that's not the relevant number either. His cap savings if cut is $3.65 mil assuming again the workout bonus is or will be earned. Is he worth that? Given the circumstances it is hard to argue he isn't.

I was actually referring to Turner who they signed to a big contract in free agency and who you claim won't be the starter.

like I said, I wasn't really trying to make any connections at all. Just pointing out two separate and unrelated "you don't do this if you plan on doing that" instances where you seem to have opposite opinions.

 

[sschind]

so we have keke de, all we need is elton john for a duet

I guess we are going to have to settle for Elgton Jenkins and Keke DE.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I guess we are going to have to settle for Elgton Jenkins and Keke DE.

Don't Go Breaking My Heart....I saw what you did there!

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[TXPackerfan]

Well I said barring injury because Gary is at best a project and 4th in line among standup linebackers and in most Nickle situations hes going to be behind Z Smith, Clark and Daniels on the line

Gary is a project at best. He shouldnt be penciled in for anything this year. Sure the coaches might coach him up quickly but odds are it's going to take at least a year to turn him into a productive player if they're able to

In terms of being an every down OLB specifically, I agree he's a project. But (imo) Pettine will line him up all over the place in sub packages for different twists, stunts and blitzes. He'll make an immediate impact rushing the QB.

 

[OldSchool101]

Don't Go Breaking My Heart....I saw what you did there!

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Nice timing on the support Poker!