10 concerns about the 2014 Packers

[cara murphy]

If they all keep healthy, our team will be very great.

 

[ivo610]

ohh training camp hype and panic, how I missed you. Last year all the rage was Lacys weight problems (eye roll)

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Agreed. Haven't heard anything about him though. Is it safe to assume he's #2 on the depth chart as of now?

He lined up at center with the #2 offense, not sure that means he has passed Barclay or Lang on the depth chart though.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Why all of the concerns regarding the smaller, faster DL's? How well have the slow, heavy guys worked for us the last 3 years? If our D-linemen are penetrating and closing off lanes I would think it would be easier for our ILB's to fill the known "open" lane, rather than waiting to read/react to which gap was open and then trying to fill. Can't be any worse, can it?

After reading your comment I tried to figure out if the average weight of the defensive lineman plays a role in a team´s run defense. So I calculated the average weight on the DL of teams which played a 3-4 defense last season. Here´s what I came up with:

It seems like weight doesn´t significantly affect a team´s run defense, it´s all about having talented players either on the line or at ILB.

Two of the best run defenses (Arizona and San Francisco) boasted two of the lightest DL playing a 3-4 with both teams having above average ILBs. The NY Jets (3rd best run defense) on the other side featured one of the heaviest DL in football, featuring the best run stopping NT in football in Damon Harrison.

There was no obvious correlation between having more weight on the DL resulting in better run defense.

Here are the numbers for anyone interested (ranked by average weight on the DL as well as information about average weight at DE and 2013 run defense rank):

Baltimore 331.3 327.0 11
Green Bay 326.8 322.3 25
NY Jets 319.7 304.5 3
New Orleans 319.0 305.5 19
Cleveland 318.0 313.8 18
Buffalo 314.8 309.3 28
Washington 312.2 314.5 17
San Diego 310.0 300.0 12
Kansas City 308.8 296.3 22
Indianapolis 308.6 305.8 26
Philadelphia 300.8 296.0 10
Pittsburgh 298.3 291.0 21
Arizona 296.0 290.0 1
Houston 293.5 288.0 23
San Francisco 291.0 289.5 4

I was surprised though that the Packers DL was (aside of the Ravens) by far the heaviest in the league playing a 3-4.

 

[ivo610]

After reading your comment I tried to figure out if the average weight of the defensive lineman plays a role in a team´s run defense. So I calculated the average weight on the DL of teams which played a 3-4 defense last season. Here´s what I came up with:

It seems like weight doesn´t significantly affect a team´s run defense, it´s all about having talented players either on the line or at ILB.

Two of the best run defenses (Arizona and San Francisco) boasted two of the lightest DL playing a 3-4 with both teams having above average ILBs. The NY Jets (3rd best run defense) on the other side featured one of the heaviest DL in football, featuring the best run stopping NT in football in Damon Harrison.

There was no obvious correlation between having more weight on the DL resulting in better run defense.

Here are the numbers for anyone interested (ranked by average weight on the DL as well as information about average weight at DE and 2013 run defense rank):

Baltimore 331.3 327.0 11
Green Bay 326.8 322.3 25
NY Jets 319.7 304.5 3
New Orleans 319.0 305.5 19
Cleveland 318.0 313.8 18
Buffalo 314.8 309.3 28
Washington 312.2 314.5 17
San Diego 310.0 300.0 12
Kansas City 308.8 296.3 22
Indianapolis 308.6 305.8 26
Philadelphia 300.8 296.0 10
Pittsburgh 298.3 291.0 21
Arizona 296.0 290.0 1
Houston 293.5 288.0 23
San Francisco 291.0 289.5 4

I was surprised though that the Packers DL was (aside of the Ravens) by far the heaviest in the league playing a 3-4.

Another football myth busted

 

[Forget Favre]

What about 10 concerns for each of all other 31 teams?

 

[brandon2348]

After reading your comment I tried to figure out if the average weight of the defensive lineman plays a role in a team´s run defense. So I calculated the average weight on the DL of teams which played a 3-4 defense last season. Here´s what I came up with:

It seems like weight doesn´t significantly affect a team´s run defense, it´s all about having talented players either on the line or at ILB.

Two of the best run defenses (Arizona and San Francisco) boasted two of the lightest DL playing a 3-4 with both teams having above average ILBs. The NY Jets (3rd best run defense) on the other side featured one of the heaviest DL in football, featuring the best run stopping NT in football in Damon Harrison.

There was no obvious correlation between having more weight on the DL resulting in better run defense.

Here are the numbers for anyone interested (ranked by average weight on the DL as well as information about average weight at DE and 2013 run defense rank):

Baltimore 331.3 327.0 11
Green Bay 326.8 322.3 25
NY Jets 319.7 304.5 3
New Orleans 319.0 305.5 19
Cleveland 318.0 313.8 18
Buffalo 314.8 309.3 28
Washington 312.2 314.5 17
San Diego 310.0 300.0 12
Kansas City 308.8 296.3 22
Indianapolis 308.6 305.8 26
Philadelphia 300.8 296.0 10
Pittsburgh 298.3 291.0 21
Arizona 296.0 290.0 1
Houston 293.5 288.0 23
San Francisco 291.0 289.5 4

I was surprised though that the Packers DL was (aside of the Ravens) by far the heaviest in the league playing a 3-4.

Yeah and all of the D-lineman other then Boyd, Raji and Guion run a 4.9 forty or faster. Glad we got rid of the older slow fat guys.

 

[PikeBadger]

Raji and Tretter are my two biggest concerns. I'm not sure that catastrophic failure of either presents us a palatable plan B scenario.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah and all of the D-lineman other then Boyd, Raji and Guion run a 4.9 forty or faster. Glad we got rid of the older slow fat guys.

Speed alone doesn´t make a difference, the guys have to be able to get off blocks and tackle.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Raji and Tretter are my two biggest concerns. I'm not sure that catastrophic failure of either presents us a palatable plan B scenario.

Linsley should present a viable backup option at center, not sure there´s anybody on the roster capable of replacing Raji though.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Linsley should present a viable backup option at center, not sure there´s anybody on the roster capable of replacing Raji though.

Pick any fat shitless guy from the stadium seats and that should be about the same, just a space taker.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Pick any fat shitless guy from the stadium seats and that should be about the same, just a space taker.

The Packers are counting on Raji to be way more aggressive and disruptive this season. He has looked great in camp so far.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

The Packers are counting on Raji to be way more aggressive and disruptive this season. He has looked great in camp so far.

*Who has be been up against*

 

[Deleted member 6794]

*Who has be been up against*

Mostly against JC Tretter.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Mostly against JC Tretter.

EXACTLY !!!!! He is winning against an unproven guy. Not a big win or the test of "looking good" in my book.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

EXACTLY !!!!! He is winning against an unproven guy. Not a big win or the test of "looking good" in my book.

Well, the Packers are counting on Tretter being the starting center in week 1 though. If the reason Raji is dominating him is Tretter not being up to the task instead of Raji showing improvement the OL could be in big trouble.

 

[El Guapo]

I think that Raji whipped Tretter a bunch of times already in camp. The quote I read yesterday from Campen was that there was nobody better than Raji to train in a new center

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Well, the Packers are counting on Tretter being the starting center in week 1 though. If the reason Raji is dominating him is Tretter not being up to the task instead of Raji showing improvement the OL could be in big trouble.

IMHO, any reports of Raji beating up on tretter are not some glimmer of hope for Raji, it is more likely a sign that we are in trouble at the OC position. It's not like Raji is beating up on a seasoned veteran who knows all the moves and tricks coming at him. Tretter is a green horn and I doubt that he can make up that much ground by the end of pre-season if Raji is working him over like a dog as of now.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

I think that Raji whipped Tretter a bunch of times already in camp. The quote I read yesterday from Campen was that there was nobody better than Raji to train in a new center

VERY optomistic of campen, but then again he wont say negative crap about his guys.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

IMHO, any reports of Raji beating up on tretter are not some glimmer of hope for Raji, it is more likely a sign that we are in trouble at the OC position. It's not like Raji is beating up on a seasoned veteran who knows all the moves and tricks coming at him. Tretter is a green horn and I doubt that he can make up that much ground by the end of pre-season if Raji is working him over like a dog as of now.

We won´t know for at least another month what it´s worth but Raji has looked rejuvenated during the first few days of camp according to several reports.

 

[TJV]

Linsley should present a viable backup option at center, not sure there´s anybody on the roster capable of replacing Raji though.

I don't know how capably they'd back up Raji, but I think the depth chart after Raji is Guion, Boyd, and Pennel. It'd be nice if Guion could get on the practice field...

 

[brandon2348]

Speed alone doesn´t make a difference, the guys have to be able to get off blocks and tackle.

yup, I think we got some guys that have developed and can do that entering 2nd, 3rd year with a nice mix of experienced players. I am really excited to see some pre-season action as there are a lot of young guys on both sides of the ball that are interesting prospects.

 

[profile_removed]

Let me answer this the easy way: 1, 7 and 9 DON'T concern me, the rest are gonna give me a coronary!

 

[Luca]

The number 1 concern for any NFL team is injuries. So, that is obviously the biggest concern.

Other concerns are the center position, middle linebacker position and the D-line (especially depth/rotation).

 

[Ogsponge]

After reading your comment I tried to figure out if the average weight of the defensive lineman plays a role in a team´s run defense. So I calculated the average weight on the DL of teams which played a 3-4 defense last season. Here´s what I came up with:

It seems like weight doesn´t significantly affect a team´s run defense, it´s all about having talented players either on the line or at ILB.

Two of the best run defenses (Arizona and San Francisco) boasted two of the lightest DL playing a 3-4 with both teams having above average ILBs. The NY Jets (3rd best run defense) on the other side featured one of the heaviest DL in football, featuring the best run stopping NT in football in Damon Harrison.

There was no obvious correlation between having more weight on the DL resulting in better run defense.

Here are the numbers for anyone interested (ranked by average weight on the DL as well as information about average weight at DE and 2013 run defense rank):

Baltimore 331.3 327.0 11
Green Bay 326.8 322.3 25
NY Jets 319.7 304.5 3
New Orleans 319.0 305.5 19
Cleveland 318.0 313.8 18
Buffalo 314.8 309.3 28
Washington 312.2 314.5 17
San Diego 310.0 300.0 12
Kansas City 308.8 296.3 22
Indianapolis 308.6 305.8 26
Philadelphia 300.8 296.0 10
Pittsburgh 298.3 291.0 21
Arizona 296.0 290.0 1
Houston 293.5 288.0 23
San Francisco 291.0 289.5 4

I was surprised though that the Packers DL was (aside of the Ravens) by far the heaviest in the league playing a 3-4.

I was just about to go on a rant about how everyone is missing the bigger picture when it comes to our defense and the whole big vs. fast debate with the linemen. I guess I still will while quoting your post. The bigger issue is that outside of Clay, the Packers do not have 3-4 linebackers. Our linebackers are simply not the quick, aggressive type of linebackers you need in a 3-4, especially when it comes to our inside linebackers. In a 3-4 defense it is 20% about the linemen and 80% about the linebackers, which sucks for us because we only have 25% of a 3-4 linebacker group.


I hope I am completely wrong but I firmly believe that as long as our inside linebackers are Hawk and Jones, our defense is doomed to bottom feeders at worst and mediocrity at best.