Wide Receiver Options

[Pkrjones]

I'm not sure I'm not board with cutting him. I agree with your thought process in terms of redzone routes. He's a speed guy and can stretch the field. There's not much field to stretch inside of the twenty. Give a good route runner a shot when inside that area. Just use Watkins to stretch the field and leave it at that.

In 2022 Watkins has 17 targets & 10 receptions (10 targets & 4 receptions in last 3 weeks) and is using a valuable roster spot. Winfree has been elevated 3 times & now is stuck on PS unless signed to the 53. My main point was Watkins isn't producing, and actually ********-up more than he's helping. Release him & give his spot to Winfree, who may actually help the offense.

 

[Krabs]

In 2022 Watkins has 17 targets & 10 receptions (10 targets & 4 receptions in last 3 weeks) and is using a valuable roster spot. Winfree has been elevated 3 times & now is stuck on PS unless signed to the 53. My main point was Watkins isn't producing, and actually ********-up more than he's helping. Release him & give his spot to Winfree, who may actually help the offense.

I mean, I don't think it would really matter that much. This season is shot. I wouldn't be mad if they did it. It's just that our WRs are absolutely beat up and we just simply need bodies at this point. Also, Watkins was on IR, so his stats won't be great. I think he has only played, what? Three games? Regardless, I don't think it really matters.

 

[Pkrjones]

Reported that Doubs has a "high ankle sprain" which can be a 4-6 week injury. If Doubs gets IR'd then Winfree could take his spot on the 53 & try to bolster his standing on the team. Hoping Watson gets a few games off to heal, don't need his career prematurely ended by concussion.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Watkins is consistently one of the WR problems and should be released. Still owe him his salary but might free-up his per game Roster-bonus $$ on the cap. Winfree isn't perfect but at least may run the play that's called much more frequently.

The Packers would actually lose some cap space (minimum $22K per week) by releasing Watkins to replace him with another player. While I wouldn't mind it at this point I don't believe Winfree presents an upgrade over him.

You would think being on the roster long enough this season that our QB and receivers would be on the same page by now.

It's pretty obvious that hasn't happened with the wide receivers currently on the roster.

 

[longtimefan]

You would think being on the roster long enough this season that our QB and receivers would be on the same page by now.

Maybe if all players were at ota it may have helped?

That’s just speculation on my part, but I know it was really talked about at the time

 

[Mondio]

Maybe if all players were at ota it may have helped?

That’s just speculation on my part, but I know it was really talked about at the time

Though Toure, a rookie was showing he could read the defender and make the appropriate adjustment a week ago, and Sammy and vet still doesn't know. and that's not QB/WR mind meld stuff. It's not something that is developed through hundreds and thousands of plays together on the field. it's simple know your route concepts in the offense stuff.

that's stuff Sammy should have learned at least 9 years ago in his first OTA and has zero to do with who his QB is. Even me, sitting on my couch having never played in the NFL could see what he was supposed to do on that play immediately. just by the way the defense was aligned. There is no signal from the QB that tells you this. The Defense tells you this and you recognize it as soon as you line up and see where they're playing you.

If Sammy hasn't learned that in his first 9 years in the NFL, i'm not sure he's going to.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Though Toure, a rookie was showing he could read the defender and make the appropriate adjustment a week ago, and Sammy and vet still doesn't know. and that's not QB/WR mind meld stuff. It's not something that is developed through hundreds and thousands of plays together on the field. it's simple know your route concepts in the offense stuff.

that's stuff Sammy should have learned at least 9 years ago in his first OTA and has zero to do with who his QB is. Even me, sitting on my couch having never played in the NFL could see what he was supposed to do on that play immediately. just by the way the defense was aligned. There is no signal from the QB that tells you this. The Defense tells you this and you recognize it as soon as you line up and see where they're playing you.

If Sammy hasn't learned that in his first 9 years in the NFL, i'm not sure he's going to.

You just don't get it, eh??? Of course Watkins would have known which route to run on those plays if Rodgers had just shown up for OTAs. Never mind that Sammy didn't even show up for all of those practices either.

 

[Mondio]

and the difference between Toure's adjustment and Sammy's route was Toure made his adjustment on the fly. Sammy's should have been pre-snap, defender tells you which way to run your route down there. Run to daylilght, not congestion

 

[Krabs]

Watson, Doubs, and Toure will be on the roster next year. Watkins career is over. Maybe some team will toss him a bone and give him another year. I find that unlikely. I look for Amari Rodgers to be gone. Cobb is a question mark. I could see him sticking around for another season. He seems to still have a bit left in the tank. An okay possession receiver that Rodgers trusts. I think Lazard will be gone. He will demand more money. It will be a similar situation like MVS. He might get paid, but it won't be with the Packers. Then I really think they start looking at the draft. I think it is glaringly obvious now that we have a lack of skill position players. The draft won't solve the issue. I'm not sure they really can be heavy players in free agency due to the cap situation. Hopefully, Watson, Doubs and Toure all progress. Also, they need a good TE desperately.

 

[Magooch]

that's stuff Sammy should have learned at least 9 years ago in his first OTA and has zero to do with who his QB is. Even me, sitting on my couch having never played in the NFL could see what he was supposed to do on that play immediately. just by the way the defense was aligned. There is no signal from the QB that tells you this. The Defense tells you this and you recognize it as soon as you line up and see where they're playing you.

If Sammy hasn't learned that in his first 9 years in the NFL, i'm not sure he's going to.

Yep. You know what they say: "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time."
Watkins has been trying to tell us who he is for the better part of the last decade and for whatever reason our front office decided to just not believe him. It is what it is. I'm fine with taking that chance but we shouldn't act like what we're seeing is any surprise nor that it's something that would be fixed by Rodgers and others attending voluntary OTAs.

And I think that issue in and of itself has been *massively* blown out of proportion. I don't know if it's people just desperate to have "an answer" or just latching onto anything that can be used as a criticism against Rodgers but I just don't see it. He's missed OTAs in the past and it's not been an issue. Brady has missed OTAs plenty of times in Super Bowl-winning years. We've added some new guys to the defense, too - Jaire, Rasul, Preston, and Gary all missed time at OTAs; are we going to blame our defense's issues on their lack of attendance, too?
And as mentioned, Watkins did not attend, nor did Lazard IIRC. And I would make the case that it's not just about a 1-to-1 QB-to-WR getting on the same page but rather the QB being on the same page with *each* WR AND the WRs being on the same page with the others. If Rodgers' absence from OTAs is going to be given as a reason for our struggles on offense then I would expect to see similar criticisms levied at Lazard and Watkins and others but I've not seen much of that at all yet.

Ultimately voluntary OTAs are what, 8, 9 days? It sure looks to me like our issues are a lot deeper than anything that a week and change worth of practices would have fixed.

And of course no matter how you slice it Rodgers could attend every single second of every voluntary practice, meeting, run-through, he could show up with the rookies to pick up trash in the parking lot in their spare time and that's still not going to do anything about the simple lack of talent in the WR room.

 

[Half Empty]

I think the references to voluntary attendance have at least as much to do with attitude as they do with extra practice.

 

[Magooch]

I think the references to voluntary attendance have at least as much to do with attitude as they do with extra practice.

But again - this offseason wasn't the first time he's missed. Why is it indicative of an attitude issue this time around but not previously?

 

[Half Empty]

I'd imagine that, as with most things in sports, his (at least reasonable) previous level of performance negated the need to do a deep dive.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't know if it's people just desperate to have "an answer" or just latching onto anything that can be used as a criticism against Rodgers but I just don't see it. He's missed OTAs in the past and it's not been an issue. Brady has missed OTAs plenty of times in Super Bowl-winning years.

While I actually do somewhat agree with you in a tunnel that a HOF QB needs OTA to improve his play, there’s also a separate reason that Matt wanted him there. There’s also a reason this was a substantial topic of debate. This wasn’t about his ability as much as it was about his commitment to getting these young guys acclimated with every tool possible. Not to mention his Employer had just fully invested a league high contract on him and proposed to give him say on draft targets. If that’s not commitment idk what is.

If Rodgers' absence from OTAs is going to be given as a reason for our struggles on offense then I would expect to see similar criticisms levied at Lazard and Watkins and others but I've not seen much of that at all yet.

While a Jockey in a horse race weighing 5 pounds more this race similarly can’t be Quantified (it sounds trivial) it leaves question if that 5 LBs contributed to their last place finish when they normally finish first. It has to be addressed as one key component and Eliminated. Otherwise it looks like that Rider isn’t fully committed.

Sports is all about momentum and every possible edge you can get should not be trivialized. You could’ve just eliminated that variable. If, as you say, OTA’s are not important and have zero impact because they are voluntary, then why do many veterans attend them and why did Matt LaFleur say he wanted him there? When asked, why didn’t MLF just say they are not helpful? He looked like a deer in headlights because he had to cover for him that’s why.

Also had #12 made those meetings and texted that group? I’m 90% certain those other WR would’ve showed up in support. Other than Cobb, this 2022 group were NOT long time vested Veterans at the peak of their careers.

 

[Magooch]

If, as you say, OTA’s are not important and have zero impact because they are voluntary, then why do many veterans attend them and why did Matt LaFleur say he wanted him there?

Where did I do that?

 

[OldSchool101]

Where did I do that?

we shouldn't act like what we're seeing is any surprise nor that it's something that would be fixed by Rodgers and others attending voluntary OTAs.

And I think that issue in and of itself has been *massively* blown out of proportion. I don't know if it's people just desperate to have "an answer" or just latching onto anything that can be used as a criticism against Rodgers but I just don't see it. He's missed OTAs in the past and it's not been an issue.

If Rodgers' absence from OTAs is going to be given as a reason for our struggles on offense then I would expect to see similar criticisms levied at Lazard and Watkins and others but I've not seen much of that at all yet.

Rodgers could attend every single second of every voluntary practice, meeting, run-through, he could show up with the rookies to pick up trash in the parking lot in their spare time

this offseason wasn't the first time he's missed. Why is it indicative of an attitude issue this time around but not previously?

It’s pretty clear where you stand, that was just your last 2 posts! lol

 

[Magooch]

It’s pretty clear where you stand, that was just your last 2 posts! lol

I'm not seeing anywhere that says "not important" or "zero impact".

I did certainly say "blown out of proportion" but I'm sure you understand that "not as important as some are claiming" and "not as much of an impact as some are claiming" are not the same things as "no importance" and "no impact".

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm not seeing anywhere that says "not important" or "zero impact".

I did certainly say "blown out of proportion" but I'm sure you understand that "not as important as some are claiming" and "not as much of an impact as some are claiming" are not the same things as "no importance" and "no

I mean It’s ok. There’s 2 schools of thought here.
One is we’ve got a newer stable of Receivers and a massive new Reord breaking $ commitment, including some QB say on player acquisitions that affect his Offense. All these changes require maximum effort on all parties to gel. Several WR showed that commitment as an example Romeo Doubs was a good example of said commitment

The second school was business as usual. #12 will compensate for everyone else’s shortcomings, after all he’s back to back MVP. What could he or anyone else possibly benefit. It’s more or less a waste of time.

Personally I don’t care about other teams, their scenarios at WR were a far cry from ours. Also had #12 made 1 group text every WR on that team would’ve showed up. Those other guys got wind that it’s not important because their Captain said so. I believe level of commitment is silent but obvious. In this case obviously the Packers don’t need the extra 10 days…right? NOT!!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not sure they really can be heavy players in free agency due to the cap situation. Hopefully, Watson, Doubs and Toure all progress.

The Packers can create enough cap space by restructuring contracts to make moves in free agency if they want to.

While I actually do somewhat agree with you in a tunnel that a HOF QB needs OTA to improve his play, there’s also a separate reason that Matt wanted him there.

Of course the head coach wants all players to participate in OTAs. Rodgers and others showing up for them this year wouldn't have made any difference though.

Several WR showed that commitment as an example Romeo Doubs was a good example of said commitment

Doubs is a freaking rookie, of course he needs to show up for OTAs to learn the offense. There's close to no actual benefit of a 18-year veteran to take part in it.

 

[thequick12]

So by the time everyone gets healthy the Packers could have a pretty diverse and dangerous group of pass catchers...

You got Lazard, Watson, and Doubs as your top 3 wrs. With Cobb and Toure behind them. And then Watkins who has actually made a few important plays but who you'd prefer the others to keep off the field. Add Tonyan to that as well as Lewis who has a knack for a big catch once in a great while. Then theirs Jones and Dillon who both can more than hold their own in the passing game. You also have Deguara who has shown he can be a useful weapon as well

You could already bring back the big 5 with several different combinations.
Watson. Lazard, Doubs, Cobb, Tonyan. Tonyan, Deguara, Watson, Lazard, Jones.
The possibilities are exciting...

Now the question is do you sign Odell Beckham Jr and either carry 7 wrs or release Sammy Watkins. There's no doubt Odell takes this group from they might be pretty good to damn theyre pretty good!

Id say go for it and sign Odell but either way bring back the big 5. Imagine having Beckham, Watson, Cobb, Lazard, and Doubs on the field or Beckham, Watson, Lazard, Tonyan and Jones. Or Lewis, Deguara, Jones, Lazard, and Beckham

 

[Krabs]

So by the time everyone gets healthy the Packers could have a pretty diverse and dangerous group of pass catchers...

You got Lazard, Watson, and Doubs as your top 3 wrs. With Cobb and Toure behind them. And then Watkins who has actually made a few important plays but who you'd prefer the others to keep off the field. Add Tonyan to that as well as Lewis who has a knack for a big catch once in a great while. Then theirs Jones and Dillon who both can more than hold their own in the passing game. You also have Deguara who has shown he can be a useful weapon as well

You could already bring back the big 5 with several different combinations.
Watson. Lazard, Doubs, Cobb, Tonyan. Tonyan, Deguara, Watson, Lazard, Jones.
The possibilities are exciting...

Now the question is do you sign Odell Beckham Jr and either carry 7 wrs or release Sammy Watkins. There's no doubt Odell takes this group from they might be pretty good to damn theyre pretty good!

Please stop with the OBJ talk. That's not going to happen. Never was and never will.

Id say go for it and sign Odell but either way bring back the big 5. Imagine having Beckham, Watson, Cobb, Lazard, and Doubs on the field or Beckham, Watson, Lazard, Tonyan and Jones. Or Lewis, Deguara, Jones, Lazard, and Beckham

Scratch OBJ off this list. Not happening. I believe Lazard is going to demand more money than the Packers are willing to give him. I think he will be on a different roster next year. He's also pretty injury prone. He always seems to miss a decent amount of games. Watson, Doubs and Toure will all be back. I think Cobb will also go one more year. If not, he retires. Watkins will be gone. Tonyan has regressed since his injury and is a non factor. He had one catch last week with a WR core that is banged up. They desperately need to address the TE position. I said this before, but I think it is our weakest position group on the team and it's not even close.

The need to address the WR position. The hope is all the rookies will continue to grow and become good professionals. They all have flashed at times. However, they need a true weapon if they really want the offense to be explosive. And the answer is not OBJ. In my opinion, they need a proven vet beyond Cobb to take this offense to the next level.

 

[thequick12]

Im talking about for this year @Krabs

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Im talking about for this year @Krabs

OBJ ain't coming here for this year, either. He will be looking to sign a multi-year contract with a major title contender THIS year. We have a very low % of even making the playoffs this year. We will NOT be iin the running.

 

[tynimiller]

OBJ ain't coming here for this year, either. He will be looking to sign a multi-year contract with a major title contender THIS year. We have a very low % of even making the playoffs this year. We will NOT be iin the running.

I disagree with looking for a multi-year. I'd bet he signs a 1 year deal given injury history and look to prove healthy for a two year deal or so in offseason. Only chance I see for a multi-year deal from a team is a team willing to gamble and have lots of funds.

 

[thequick12]

OBJ ain't coming here for this year, either. He will be looking to sign a multi-year contract with a major title contender THIS year. We have a very low % of even making the playoffs this year. We will NOT be iin the running.

You might be right because of the playoff odds but I dont think any team will give him a multi year deal. His only option is going to be a deal for the remainder of the season. With the hopes of balling out and making some team want to give him a long term deal going into 2023