Wide Receiver Options

[Magooch]

I think the "Occam's Razor" solution for me with regards to Amari is that he's perhaps simply not good enough.

Every year we hear how just about every year two player is poised for their big breakout season when they show up for training camp. Just like how every veteran happens to show up "in the best shape of their life" and so on. It rarely turns out to be the case.

As it stands the bottom line is that he's simply not shown anything to suggest he can be an impact player at the NFL level. He wouldn't be the first player to perform well on a talent-loaded college team and be unable to produce anywhere near the same level once he's moved to the pros. It happens, no shame in that, but it is what it is.

I know Rodgers has his favorite guys and whatnot but I seriously doubt that he would be going out of his way to sabotage Amari or purposefully avoid working with him / targeting him / getting the ball / etc just because he would rather throw it to Cobb or something. It's not like Rodgers is unwilling to try and get new guys worked in; on the contrary it seems like just about every year there's some young and/or unproven/"unconventional" WR who puts in a good camp, works hard, and wins Rodgers' favor/trust. It's not like Kumerow, Winfree, Boykin, etc were all established pros with longstanding WRs with Rodgers and that's why he campaigned for them.

In fact I think Rodgers' quote on Boykin is probably fairly relevant as it relates to this situation:

"The biggest thing that helped Jarrett was he became an expert of our offense. He spent a lot of time studying our offense, getting in my ear, wanting to hear what it is he needed to do to get on the field, what I expected out of him in certain situations and certain route concepts...if you're consistently in the right place at the right time you can't help but make plays...."

"...the ball's going to find you, because we throw it to the open guy in this offense. We have our progressions. We don't lock in on one person. And if you're consistently doing the right thing - running the right route at the proper depth, you can't help but make plays. And that's what's happened with Jarrett. The more plays you make, the more confidence you're going to have and that's when you're going to see guys reach - and at times exceed their potential."

 

[tynimiller]

This is NOT a defense of Amari at all, however having watched him specifically on return plays from last year to this year the dialogue of critiques on him are vastly different this year to last IMO.

Last year I noticed honestly just a scared kid it seemed like with the ball and receiving the ball. When he did do a return it almost seemed like he doubted every single step he took and rarely attacked with a single step.

This year, I see his actual receiving of the ball much MORE fluid than last year and looks natural - I bet this has to do with Bisaccia extensive work I've heard he had him do INSTANTLY upon arrival and just being a year older "in the game".

Yes, he bobbled one last night, however my biggest concern isn't his returning skills but his lack of ability to get offensive snaps as a WR this year. His body type and skills set once the ball is in his hands is the type of WR nearly every team in the league would want to have taking some snaps in their offense....yet here we are two games deep and he has taken exactly 0 offensive snaps. That is massively concerning IMO.

 

[Mondio]

He did more than just bobble one, he put it on the ground and thankfully there was no Bear there with an opportunity to pick it up. and I'm almost certain he almost lost his lone kick return as well. They never showed a replay, but i swore I saw it get knocked out, but lots of bodies so don't know if it bounced right back or if he was able to pin it against his body and regain control. This isn't a new development for him. He did it more than he should have last year too.

 

[jetfixer]

I think Watson and Doubs need a few more touches, glad we won, that's most important. For them to develop they need to be involved, I would hope by playoff time they can step up and be good.

 

[OldSchool101]

This is NOT a defense of Amari at all, however having watched him specifically on return plays from last year to this year the dialogue of critiques on him are vastly different this year to last IMO.

Last year I noticed honestly just a scared kid it seemed like with the ball and receiving the ball. When he did do a return it almost seemed like he doubted every single step he took and rarely attacked with a single step.

This year, I see his actual receiving of the ball much MORE fluid than last year and looks natural - I bet this has to do with Bisaccia extensive work I've heard he had him do INSTANTLY upon arrival and just being a year older "in the game".

Yes, he bobbled one last night, however my biggest concern isn't his returning skills but his lack of ability to get offensive snaps as a WR this year. His body type and skills set once the ball is in his hands is the type of WR nearly every team in the league would want to have taking some snaps in their offense....yet here we are two games deep and he has taken exactly 0 offensive snaps. That is massively concerning IMO.

I agree. I really feel like he’s more in that Rookie status in their eyes. He was relegated mainly to ST last year and then this year we’ve got all these new guys.
Who do you give opportunities? it can’t be all 7 Wideouts there’s just not enough meat to go around. Right now, early into the season, we MUST rely on our veterans to get some Wins. They’ll be time to integrate him into the Offense more, but imo this was NOT the game to be catering to WR projects. This game was a must Win and that’s more important than a WR training class.

Once we are closer to mid-season and we get a 2-3 score lead on a team? That’s a good time to start giving your more inexperienced guys increased snaps. Right now it’s just not a smart move using lots of Toure or Amari. It’s enough just trying to get Doubs and Watson involved so they can ramp up. The Amari project just has to wait some and it’s more about picking and choosing early season priorities than him unable to perform. Amari is inadvertently a victim of a WR room clogged with high projections and little output/experience.

Amari needs to recognize that and when he gets a chance? He’d best bring it like it’s his last snap because it might be.

 

[tynimiller]

I think Watson and Doubs need a few more touches, glad we won, that's most important. For them to develop they need to be involved, I would hope by playoff time they can step up and be good.

I won't reject more balls to those two, they're both excellent in space. However just to measure their usage compared to snaps this a breakdown for touches by player:

AJ Dillon - 21 touches or targets
Aaron Jones - 18 touches or targets
Sammy Watkins - 4 touches or targets
Cobb/Doubs/Lazard/Watson - 3 touches or targets
Tonyan - 2 touches or targets
Tyler Davis - 1 touch or target
Rodgers - 5 rushes

 

[Tarzan2490]

So I personally am happy with WR corps we have. I think they'll eventually turn into something very good. Now I tried looking up Green Bays cap and I believe it said 8m, I could be wrong. If I am, I apologize for that number. Do you guys/gals think we should reach out for someone or try a trade possibly? I truly think we're fine with what we have. I just have read how people don't like Amari or don't think Rodgers will mesh with the rookies we have. Quite a bit of my friends think Rodgers doesn't like them. I've read people on here talk decently about Doubs, Watson and Toure.

 

[OldSchool101]

So I personally am happy with WR corps we have. I think they'll eventually turn into something very good. Now I tried looking up Green Bays cap and I believe it said 8m, I could be wrong. If I am, I apologize for that number. Do you guys/gals think we should reach out for someone or try a trade possibly? I truly think we're fine with what we have. I just have read how people don't like Amari or don't think Rodgers will mesh with the rookies we have. Quite a bit of my friends think Rodgers doesn't like them. I've read people on here talk decently about Doubs, Watson and Toure.

I think we’re going to increasingly get the new guys more involved with specific Packages but rely on Cobb, Watkins and Lazard. If one of our 3 veterans go down I could see a pre trade deadline veteran added. Yes

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, he bobbled one last night, however my biggest concern isn't his returning skills but his lack of ability to get offensive snaps as a WR this year. His body type and skills set once the ball is in his hands is the type of WR nearly every team in the league would want to have taking some snaps in their offense....yet here we are two games deep and he has taken exactly 0 offensive snaps. That is massively concerning IMO.

Whoa, hold on a minute, Amari was on the field for Aaron kneeling down to end the game

I think Watson and Doubs need a few more touches, glad we won, that's most important. For them to develop they need to be involved, I would hope by playoff time they can step up and be good.

Doubs has been the most targeted wide receiver on the Packers over the first two games with Watson being tied with Watkins for second. In addition both of them received a touch in the running game as well. I think it would be unrealistic to expect them to be more involved at this point in the season.

So I personally am happy with WR corps we have. I think they'll eventually turn into something very good. Now I tried looking up Green Bays cap and I believe it said 8m, I could be wrong. If I am, I apologize for that number. Do you guys/gals think we should reach out for someone or try a trade possibly? I truly think we're fine with what we have. I just have read how people don't like Amari or don't think Rodgers will mesh with the rookies we have. Quite a bit of my friends think Rodgers doesn't like them. I've read people on here talk decently about Doubs, Watson and Toure.

According to the NFLPA's public salary report the Packers currently have close to $6.8 million of cap space. They could definitely use some of it to add another veteran receiver. While I'm not confident in the receiving corps being able to produce without the running game excelling at this point I believe the front office will wait until the trade deadline to see how the unit has developed before making a decision on adding another player at the position.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

You ate surprised. AR and the coaching stuff is the only difference betwin Packers and Eagles. They have fast talented WRs but refuse to let them play.

Look af all the young WRs around the league making a difference already this season. I'm fast losing flight that this coach coupled with AR more worried about his stats the being agressive and trying to make playes are going to take us to SB anytime soon.

To win in thus league vs the elite teams you need to be AGRESSIVE and have multitude of treats which we do but they ate only good if utilized.

Christian Watson is a vertical threat but instead of sending him on go routes and deep posts he is the f... backfield running reverses.

 

[tynimiller]

You ate surprised. AR and the coaching stuff is the only difference betwin Packers and Eagles. They have fast talented WRs but refuse to let them play.

Look af all the young WRs around the league making a difference already this season. I'm fast losing flight that this coach coupled with AR more worried about his stats the being agressive and trying to make playes are going to take us to SB anytime soon.

To win in thus league vs the elite teams you need to be AGRESSIVE and have multitude of treats which we do but they ate only good if utilized.

Christian Watson is a vertical threat but instead of sending him on go routes and deep posts he is the f... backfield running reverses.

Green Bay has one of the most successful franchises in MLF time here. If we were as atrocious as you claim, we would be a .500 team each year at BEST and be flirting with a top 10 pick or better each year.

 

[Poppa San]

Could the offense just be to complex for Amari to pick up? And this is also why the rookies take more time to produce? Amari may shine in a "just get open" style of offense. I could see him getting traded at this point, maybe for a developmental TE or an injury depth player.

 

[Spanky]

To win in thus league vs the elite teams you need to be AGRESSIVE and have multitude of treats which we do but they ate only good if utilized.

I think the Packers lack treats and that's the problem. Where are the cupcakes with sprinkles? Do they have any kringle? Do they have paczki? They need more treats!

 

[gopkrs]

AR and the coaching stuff is the only difference betwin Packers and Eagles.

That Eagle QB looked very very good last night.

 

[kevans74]

Could the offense just be to complex for Amari to pick up? And this is also why the rookies take more time to produce? Amari may shine in a "just get open" style of offense. I could see him getting traded at this point, maybe for a developmental TE or an injury depth player.

I believe so

For MLFs scheme you just need WRs who are smart, fast enough, and can catch and block

 

[Packerbacker1996]

Green Bay has one of the most successful franchises in MLF time here. If we were as atrocious as you claim, we would be a .500 team each year at BEST and be flirting with a top 10 pick or better each year.

We aren't atrocious but there are clear coaching deficiencies as demonstrated by out performance in first game of the season last 2 years as well as inability to make faster meaningfully adjustments when things are going sideways and general over cautious approach in situations that call for high anergy, fast pace and aggression.

Ofcourse that is my opinion and from my point of view. You can disagree as you see fit.

 

[OldSchool101]

I

We aren't atrocious but there are clear coaching deficiencies as demonstrated by out performance in first game of the season last 2 years as well as inability to make faster meaningfully adjustments when things are going sideways and general over cautious approach in situations that call for high anergy, fast pace and aggression.

Ofcourse that is my opinion and from my point of view. You can disagree as you see fit.

I think we’re dynamic. We might start slow or have a bad road game (like all teams) but overall we are one of the most consistently winning teams going back 30 years. Even moreso the last 3 seasons. We just need to finish the last couple games properly as Matt is .400 in Playoffs

Not sure if you know, but compared to HC’s in NFL history. MLF’s .724 regular season Win % is well on his way to Matching Guy Chamberlain (tied .724). Guy wins the tie breaker with more games played (6 seasons f/ 1922-1927)
It ranks above John Madden and Vince Lombardi in Win %.

So while you complain that Matt is deficient, take into account that no HC started faster than MLF in over 100 years.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

That Eagle QB looked very very good last night.

Hurts is not better than Rodgers, nowhere even close actually. The only difference is that the eagles could trust their oline to block and that they have actual, reliable receivers who can beat the zone defense the Vikings have played the past two weeks.

 

[Magooch]

I'm pretty sure if you offered Eagles fans the opportunity to swap our entire franchises (i.e. they get our players, staff, management, etc and we get theirs) just about every one of them would take that deal in a heartbeat, lol.

 

[kevans74]

I think the "Occam's Razor" solution for me with regards to Amari is that he's perhaps simply not good enough.

Every year we hear how just about every year two player is poised for their big breakout season when they show up for training camp. Just like how every veteran happens to show up "in the best shape of their life" and so on. It rarely turns out to be the case.

As it stands the bottom line is that he's simply not shown anything to suggest he can be an impact player at the NFL level. He wouldn't be the first player to perform well on a talent-loaded college team and be unable to produce anywhere near the same level once he's moved to the pros. It happens, no shame in that, but it is what it is.

I know Rodgers has his favorite guys and whatnot but I seriously doubt that he would be going out of his way to sabotage Amari or purposefully avoid working with him / targeting him / getting the ball / etc just because he would rather throw it to Cobb or something. It's not like Rodgers is unwilling to try and get new guys worked in; on the contrary it seems like just about every year there's some young and/or unproven/"unconventional" WR who puts in a good camp, works hard, and wins Rodgers' favor/trust. It's not like Kumerow, Winfree, Boykin, etc were all established pros with longstanding WRs with Rodgers and that's why he campaigned for them.

In fact I think Rodgers' quote on Boykin is probably fairly relevant as it relates to this situation:

Very well said. Boykin is honestly just a guy like Geronimo Allison, hard working , great guy but not all that talented

You root for guys like that obviously

Amari is the opposite, a 3rd round pick

 

[OldSchool101]

Very well said. Boykin is honestly just a guy like Geronimo Allison, hard working , great guy but not all that talented

You root for guys like that obviously

Amari is the opposite, a 3rd round pick

Agreed. At a 3rd Rounder you expect to get a contributor, at least by season 2.
I gave him at underperforming, but not to a point of a bust just yet. He’s a 2nd year player and it’s early. We also are loaded with WR4-WR6 types.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Cole Beasley, one of the better (but polarizing) WR's is now off the market. Signs with the Bucs, will see if he's elevated for the matchup this weekend.

 

[Mondio]

Cole Beasley, one of the better (but polarizing) WR's is now off the market. Signs with the Bucs, will see if he's elevated for the matchup this weekend.

They signed Cobb and drafted Amari, so I didn't think there was any chance we'd try and sign him, but he's a guy I was interested in last time he was a FA and i'm not confident cobb stays healthy. But alas, he's off the market. I'd be surprised if he wasn't elevated for this weekend. He's a vet. They have a need. He knows the routes and how to run them. The nuance comes later in the offense, but he knows enough today to go run routes for them.

 

[jetfixer]

Doubs has been the most targeted wide receiver on the Packers over the first two games with Watson being tied with Watkins for second. In addition both of them received a touch in the running game as well. I think it would be unrealistic to expect them to be more involved at this point in the season.

I didn’t realize Doubs had been targeted most. I think Watson’s jet sweeps count as passes. They are doing good, did Watson have a pass over 5 yards sent his way against CHI?

 

[tynimiller]

To flesh out all stats like @captainWIMM brought up with Doubs target numbers...through two games this is where we sit receiving wise in general:

Target leaders (top 5): AJ Dillon (9), Aaron Jones and Romeo Doubs (8), Watson/Watkins/Tonyan/Cobb (6)
Reception Leaders: Dillon/Jones/Doubs/Watkins (6), Watson/Tonyan/Cobb (5)
Yards Leaders: Watkins (111), Aaron Jones (65), Romeo Doubs (64), Dillon (54), Cobb (51)
Yards per Reception: Watkins (18.5), Winfree (17) *one catch, Deguara (14), Aaron Jones (10.8), Doubs (10.7)

Winfree and Deguara are the only ones holding onto a 100% catch percentage.

Only three drops have been credited to anyone: Dillon, Watson and Doubs. (I shocked Doubs got one for the quick pass drop, but Watson didn't for his blunder not getting head around earlier on one of his)

Average Depth of Target Leaders: Cobb (14.0), Winfree (12), Watkins & Lazard (10.3), Deguara (9.0). The rookies are at Watson 7.1 and Doubs 5.8