Who gets fired first?

[4Ever4Favre]

bring back Joe Philbin to run the offense

God no, please. There is a trend that AR makes the Packer OC's look good. Philbin was no exception.

If anyone, it's Clements, but not fired. BAck to a QB coach, MM back to play calling. That may get things moving this year. If MM really wants to give up play calling (and he should), find a reputable OC to bring in next year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Has anyone read about what changes (if any) there were when Clements took over as OC? I'm just curious if Rodgers has more, less, or the same input into the game plan as he did with McCarthy. Also, would like to know about his flexibility on audibling out of plays. I could be wrong here, but Rodgers doesn't seem to audible out of plays at the same frequency as he did in previous seasons. This always seemed like his bread and butter, stand back, assess the defense and run a play that would exploit it. I don't see that this year, but it could just be me?

 

[Sky King]

Has anyone read about what changes (if any) there were when Clements took over as OC? I'm just curious if Rodgers has more, less, or the same input into the game plan as he did with McCarthy. Also, would like to know about his flexibility on audibling out of plays. I could be wrong here, but Rodgers doesn't seem to audible out of plays at the same frequency as he did in previous seasons. This always seemed like his bread and butter, stand back, assess the defense and run a play that would exploit it. I don't see that this year, but it could just be me?

On offense, the Packers used to keep the opposition guessing. Now it's the offense that seems to be guessing.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

On offense, the Packers used to keep the opposition guessing. Now it's the offense that seems to guessing.

And that's where it's coming from. One bad game, maybe 2 something was always adjusted the following week and somehow some way we always got back on track, never known this team not to do that. This year we aren't and that's what's got this fanbase upset. I think what's exacerbating it is it seems like people who would have inside info are saying our offensive schemes, which I've never known to be predictable in any manner, and play calling and game planning is the same thing we've always done. I'm just looking out on that field and it sure don't look like it to me.

 

[Mondio]

Has anyone read about what changes (if any) there were when Clements took over as OC? I'm just curious if Rodgers has more, less, or the same input into the game plan as he did with McCarthy. Also, would like to know about his flexibility on audibling out of plays. I could be wrong here, but Rodgers doesn't seem to audible out of plays at the same frequency as he did in previous seasons. This always seemed like his bread and butter, stand back, assess the defense and run a play that would exploit it. I don't see that this year, but it could just be me?

do we watch the same games? I see him changing stuff all the time. he's always pointing and moving guys around. They don't seem to be working, but he's changing things all the time.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

do we watch the same games? I see him changing stuff all the time. he's always pointing and moving guys around. They don't seem to be working, but he's changing things all the time.

Maybe you are watching in HD Stereo? Like I said, maybe I am wrong about his use of the audible and maybe it's because nothing seems to be working and Troy/Joe aren't pointing out how brilliant AR's optioning out of a certain play was. I was just posing the question to see if there is a difference in play calling on and off the field with Clements in charge.

 

[Mondio]

if I am, I'm going to back to 420P and mono, maybe it will make a difference. I've already found out that none of my lucky shirts work anymore. Nothing seems brilliant when it's not working though. There isn't much to point out. When a receiver was open, he missed more than I've ever seen him miss in the past. When he put it out there, they dropped more than in the past and he's been getting hit a lot no matter what is called it seems. they have very little consistency.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I've already found out that none of my lucky shirts work anymore.

At approximately 3:30 yesterday my #92 Jersey found its way into the washing machine for the first time since 1/18/2015.

I'm contemplating pulling out old #4 in hopes to bring out some gutsy play the rest of the season! But do I wear the Packers or the Vikings version?

 

[XPack]

Knee jerk, like most terms, is subjective. However, I interpret it as meaning an inappropriately quick reaction. After the first loss, maybe. After the second loss, well, sort of. After this one, probably not.

1) I did post this in another thread....Getting a new coach midway through the season is never going to help. It takes time for a new coach to know the players and change straegy and for players to adapt to new ways...not something you can do midweek.

2) This team definitely has the talent and capability to beat the Lions, Panther and maybe Broncos too. Yes, the past 3 games were miserable...but firing the coach and trading Rodgers are way ott reaction to it. Last season we started 0-2 and it went quite well. It will be that way this season too.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

1) I did post this in another thread....Getting a new coach midway through the season is never going to help. It takes time for a new coach to know the players and change straegy and for players to adapt to new ways...not something you can do midweek.

2) This team definitely has the talent and capability to beat the Lions, Panther and maybe Broncos too. Yes, the past 3 games were miserable...but firing the coach and trading Rodgers are way ott reaction to it. Last season we started 0-2 and it went quite well. It will be that way this season too.

I will go ahead and say "trading Rodgers" is a bit of an overreaction. For some, the guy went from best QB in the league 3 weeks ago to sucking enough to trade.

I hate that they continue to run the offense out of that stupid pistol formation. That is really hurting them.

 

[TJV]

I'm contemplating pulling out old #4 in hopes to bring out some gutsy play the rest of the season! But do I wear the Packers or the Vikings version?

Ask one of the "Favre Fans" who have come out of the woodwork lately.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ask one of the "Favre Fans" who have come out of the woodwork lately.

LOL.....right now, seems like we could use a little of the fire and gunslinging Favre brought to the Packers, but I'm not debating that.

 

[PackerDNA]

On offense, the Packers used to keep the opposition guessing. Now it's the offense that seems to guessing.

Not saying it's true, but sometimes yesterday and recently I've gotten sort of the same impression; that is, they're snapping the ball and then winging it like sandlot ball.

 

[Carl]

You're right, teams with historically very strong defenses always have one of the highest paid qb's in the league on offense and 2 very highly paid WR's and 2 very highly paid OL in a guard and RT. WTF was I thinking. I know you'll go find some stat with a cap number for THIS particular year that says differently negating signing bonuses and other years of very high compensation against some of the newest contracts that might be higher, but it doesn't change the fact that you typically don't see teams with great defenses paying the guys we do on offense.

I knew when I typed it that would be your response. When Pittsburgh paid their WB and a receiver, their D suffered. The Ravens paid their qb, and the defense that took them to and won a super bowl is gone. Seattle got to pay 3rd round rookie money to their QB, I predict their D will suffer in the future when that's no longer the case.

Seattle's defense is already regressing.

 

[OldSchool101]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. McCarthy overreacted and outthought himself after the NFC title game loss. Trying to fix what wasn't working on defense and special teams he broke the offense which was. Now the team is off in all three phases.

our D played great again Sunday. They allowed just 18 and that included our ST spotting Detroit inside the GB 1 yard line and our D spotting our Offense a free series after a Dix INT.
While its obvious our Offense is struggling, our D has kept us in most games. This includes our D not getting any rest due to multiple 3 n outs. Sunday was a great D performance IMO.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

You know I do have to look at things objectively in that it has been a year in that good teams have had bad losses. Hell even just tonight a good Bengals team got beat at home by a bad Houston Texans team. Wouldn't really be surprised if the Panther party got smashed by the Redskins next week, they got the talent to do it.

But I do hope that MM really has made some real plans to shake things up per his PC earlier today. If he can't take over play calling again, hopefully he at least throws new kinks in at practice and tries different things.

 

[azrsx05]

In a interview Sitton said that they've become a very predictable offense. Which makes total sense as to why they had a 6-0 start and they will have a fast start and then play good at the end when they are trying to catch up.

Also makes sense as to why the running game has sputtered. Very hard to run on a team when they know when you're going to run. Also, gives the rushers an edge on the Oline guys and it's getting pressure on Rodgers.

Usually an offense will know what what their first 15 plays of a game will be, then the rest they go to the playbook to make adjustments. it works at first because teams are trying to see what the Packers are going to do. When they are playing catch up, they seem to pick up the tempo and defenses aren't sure exactly where they are going. When a team becomes predictable, it becomes on who is better, with our WRs being young, Cobb playing on the outside, it becomes easy for defenses to shut down this offense.

This to me is an scheme problem and Clements is not giving teams other looks, he has not made enough adjustments to counter what teams have exposed. This offenses problem is mainly on him and he needs give up play calling and allow MM who has proven he can make this offense shine

 

[Mondio]

Sitton also said they need to play to their ability and that is what they need, the rest is excuses. If Sitton is truly in the making excuses stage then this team has a lot further to go than I thought because they are still headed in the wrong direction as he still thinks the problem is external and not internal. Scheme and predictability to help Cobb catch a perfectly thrown ball for a 1st down and probably much much more. the scheme didn't make him drop it and cause us to punt rather than score points. Scheme and predictability didn't cause more than a handful of bad throws from an otherwise very accurate passer. Sitton should know there is no scheme that allows for free rushers to come right up his alley, yet they allow them repeatedly week after week.

It's really bad if the players are believing in excuses too. They're nowhere near rock bottom and won't respond till they figure out the problems lie mostly with them. Win your battles and you'll win the games. It's so simple.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Bad play calling and scheming produces bad execution, simple as that

 

[Mondio]

Bad play calling and scheming produces bad execution, simple as that

you're right, a perfectly thrown ball on a well run route to an open receiver, stupid scheme LOL

 

[TJV]

Bad play calling and scheming produces bad execution, simple as that

IMO that's simply wrong: Bad play calling and scheming will very likely lead to losing games, but each player can execute a bad play extremely well. Conversely, "perfect" play calling and scheming can be executed poorly. That's what Mondio has been harping on. If the scheme and play call results in Cobb running free in the secondary and either Rodgers throws the ball in the turf five yards in front of him, or Rodgers throws a perfect pass and Cobb drops it, the execution, not call and scheme are obviously not to blame.

 

[7thFloorRA]

I love the stages of packers grieving.....and I am absolutely part of it.

1. Immediate Reaction: Fire Capers/ Fire Slocumb(last year)/Fire Campen
2. 1-24 hrs after game: Is it the scheme or is it the players?
3. 24-36hrs after game: Its the Players which means its TT and his poor drafting and team building. Fire TT
4. 36-48 hrs after game: 12 is going to have to carry this team of average and below average players.
5. 6 3/4 days after game: WIN
6. Immediately after game until next loss: 12 is the MVP. 50 of the 53 players on the roster have never worn another uniform.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

IMO that's simply wrong: Bad play calling and scheming will very likely lead to losing games, but each player can execute a bad play extremely well. Conversely, "perfect" play calling and scheming can be executed poorly. That's what Mondio has been harping on. If the scheme and play call results in Cobb running free in the secondary and either Rodgers throws the ball in the turf five yards in front of him, or Rodgers throws a perfect pass and Cobb drops it, the execution, not call and scheme are obviously not to blame.

Every team has these issues though, the players will make mistakes. The real issue is that we can only recall a couple of these instances during each game, while most of the time we're bashing Rodgers for not fitting the ball in the perfect window or the receivers being blanketed and people are urging him to take a risk by throwing to receivers who have not proved that they can catch contested balls consistently.

Judging by what I've seen from other teams, I think the players should be getting open more often. This hasn't just been the case this year, as solid defenses have shut down our receivers in prior years even when we had Nelson. I think somebody new needs to come in and reevaluate the offense, at both a personnel and play calling level.

 

[TJV]

Every team has these issues though, the players will make mistakes.

You missed the point of the post you quoted. Whether or not other teams have those problems is relevant to the point I was addressing, which was “bad play calling and scheming produces bad execution”. Regarding the rest of your post:

The real issue is that we can only recall a couple of these instances during each game, while most of the time we're bashing Rodgers for not fitting the ball in the perfect window or the receivers being blanketed and people are urging him to take a risk by throwing to receivers who have not proved that they can catch contested balls consistently. Judging by what I've seen from other teams, I think the players should be getting open more often. This hasn't just been the case this year, as solid defenses have shut down our receivers in prior years even when we had Nelson. I think somebody new needs to come in and reevaluate the offense, at both a personnel and play calling level.

I’m not sure which games you’re watching or which forum you’re reading. I am not reading anyone criticizing Rodgers for not being “perfect”. We are criticizing him for missing receivers by a lot. As McGinn wrote after the Lions game, Rodgers “...accuracy, at least until the fourth quarter, was terrible, both by his standards and the NFL standard. He threw long, he threw short, he threw wide of the mark.” http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-lions-b99617109z1-350866411.html

Against the Lions he inexplicably didn’t run on a couple of occasions when there was a lot of green in front of him. As I’ve posted previously, in the first series at Carolina Rodgers held the ball for 6.6 seconds before getting sacked. That's not the OL's fault and while it may be the receivers not getting open enough there's no excuse for Rodgers taking a sack after that long. Rodgers has also been guilty of bypassing receivers open on shorter routes for a shot down the field. That's fine when the offense is humming along, but when they're struggling he has to adjust.

But don’t get me or anyone else wrong. It is most certainly not just Rodgers playing poorly. The offensive scheme is not utilizing man-beater routes enough. (You are seeing a lot more of those routes when watching other teams.) When they do line up trips to one side on occasion they hardly ever utilize its advantage. R Rodgers has regressed – it’s painful at times watching him attempting to block or try to get open. The middle of the OL - the "rock" of the OL since Linsley started at OC has been less than rock-worthy. IMO Linsley had his worst game at Carolina. The OTs have struggled. Wilde believes both are more injured than they’re letting on. I don’t know if that’s true but they are not playing anywhere near as well as they were at the end of last season. They can’t run block worth a crap and Lacy is playing hurt – or it looks like he is. And the receivers have struggled catching the ball and they aren’t winning their one-on-one matchups.

I do think it’s time McCarthy take back the play calling but that’s not going to fix much IMO unless he uses combination routes a lot more than he ever has. And reevaluating the personnel won’t help at this point in the season. BTW, McCarthy’s play calling and a lot of the personnel (absent Jordy of course) are responsible for the Packers having the highest scoring offense in two of the last five seasons, averaging fifth overall in the league. In sum, I think what’s wrong on offense is a perfect **** storm. The OL doesn't protect well, then it does and receivers don't get open. When they do get open, Rodgers' legendary accuracy evaporates, etc. The only constant has been the poor run blocking of late but that IMO is related to the other problems on O. It’s the whole damn team on offense including the coaching staff. But just as it’s appropriate to heap praise on Aaron Rodgers when he’s at the top of his game, it’s appropriate to assign the blame he’s earned this season.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

You missed the point of the post you quoted. Whether or not other teams have those problems is relevant to the point I was addressing, which was “bad play calling and scheming produces bad execution”. Regarding the rest of your post: I’m not sure which games you’re watching or which forum you’re reading. I am not reading anyone criticizing Rodgers for not being “perfect”. We are criticizing him for missing receivers by a lot. As McGinn wrote after the Lions game, Rodgers “...accuracy, at least until the fourth quarter, was terrible, both by his standards and the NFL standard. He threw long, he threw short, he threw wide of the mark.” http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-lions-b99617109z1-350866411.html

Against the Lions he inexplicably didn’t run on a couple of occasions when there was a lot of green in front of him. As I’ve posted previously, in the first series at Carolina Rodgers held the ball for 6.6 seconds before getting sacked. That's not the OL's fault and while it may be the receivers not getting open enough there's no excuse for Rodgers taking a sack after that long. Rodgers has also been guilty of bypassing receivers open on shorter routes for a shot down the field. That's fine when the offense is humming along, but when they're struggling he has to adjust.

But don’t get me or anyone else wrong. It is most certainly not just Rodgers playing poorly. The offensive scheme is not utilizing man-beater routes enough. (You are seeing a lot more of those routes when watching other teams.) When they do line up trips to one side on occasion they hardly ever utilize its advantage. R Rodgers has regressed – it’s painful at times watching him attempting to block or try to get open. The middle of the OL - the "rock" of the OL since Linsley started at OC has been less than rock-worthy. IMO Linsley had his worst game at Carolina. The OTs have struggled. Wilde believes both are more injured than they’re letting on. I don’t know if that’s true but they are not playing anywhere near as well as they were at the end of last season. They can’t run block worth a crap and Lacy is playing hurt – or it looks like he is. And the receivers have struggled catching the ball and they aren’t winning their one-on-one matchups.

I do think it’s time McCarthy take back the play calling but that’s not going to fix much IMO unless he uses combination routes a lot more than he ever has. And reevaluating the personnel won’t help at this point in the season. BTW, McCarthy’s play calling and a lot of the personnel (absent Jordy of course) are responsible for the Packers having the highest scoring offense in two of the last five seasons, averaging fifth overall in the league. In sum, I think what’s wrong on offense is a perfect **** storm. The OL doesn't protect well, then it does and receivers don't get open. When they do get open, Rodgers' legendary accuracy evaporates, etc. The only constant has been the poor run blocking of late but that IMO is related to the other problems on O. It’s the whole damn team on offense including the coaching staff. But just as it’s appropriate to heap praise on Aaron Rodgers when he’s at the top of his game, it’s appropriate to assign the blame he’s earned this season.

I was agreeing, I just used your post for reference. The references to Rodgers'play was based on things I read from other members, not you. It was just a variation on the argument that the play calling and the scheming is to blame, because clearly Rodgers isn't comfortable and it really doesn't seem like they have adjusted these routes to get the receivers more separation. That makes the missed opportunities even more painful, because it feels like they are pulling teeth to get anything to work out there.