Whitehead Gone, G-Mo Placed on IR, and acquired CB Will Redmond

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well in the past McCarthy had to answer to Thompson... he doesn’t answer to Gute.... In fact everyone in this forum seems to think that McCarthy and Gute must have some adversarial relationship, when in fact they may be working together much more closely than McCarthy and Thompson ever did... precisely due to their equal footing in the organization.

Agreed and I would add: These are "TT guys" that the Packers are cutting loose. I doubt that bothers Gute as much as it would have TT. My biggest pet peeve with the TT administration was holding on to scraps, head cases or inconsistent players too long. Possibly both MM and Gute feel the same way and are finally cutting bait from that strategy.

 

[Mondio]

I agree, I think after the roster was decided it was largely a matter of Work with what you got. Though Ted did cut Carroll after a poor start to a season back when he first got here. I think by '14 he had developed a roster again he thought was poised for a run, it was, so he didn't see a need to make many changes. it failed and then he decided to step aside and let others do the work when that team and run was coming to an end.

 

[Mondio]

Agreed and I would add: These are "TT guys" that the Packers are cutting loose. I doubt that bothers Gute as much as it would have TT. My biggest pet peeve with the TT administration was holding on to scraps, head cases or inconsistent players too long. Possibly both MM and Gute feel the same way and are finally cutting bait from that strategy.

They're all going to be TT guys, he's been the GM for the past decade who else's guys is he going to get rid of?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

They're all going to be TT guys, he's been the GM for the past decade who else's guys is he going to get rid of?

Good point and hopefully very few of "his own", which will mean Gute is making good draft and signing decisions.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Whitehead gone for a little slap?
Imagine what would happen if he was sleeping with some coaches wife......LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Imagine what would happen if he was sleeping with some coaches wife......LOL

That might keep him in Green Bay forever, if he had pictures.

 

[gbgary]

Whitehead Gone, G-Mo Placed on IR, and acquired CB Will Redmond

at this point...meh, meh...aaaaand meh.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe this was said by someone already and if it was, I apologize. What is getting a bit lost in all these roster moves is the fact that Gute has his finger firmly on a button that he isn't afraid to push. He is showing that under his watch he is not messing around when it comes to marginal talent with diminishing value to the team. If you look at all the moves made in recent weeks, most fans are pointing to "this player did this wrong and it got him cut". When in reality (maybe not with Monty) it was just a better move at the time for the Packers to part ways.

I'm not saying TT was complacent, but he seemed to just let this stuff happen more often than not, feeling it would work itself out and no need to make midseason moves.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

The Packers have King on the roster as well, hopefully he will be healthy for this week's game.

His health has been something the Packers have not been able to rely on.

Good player when he's on the field, but that hasn't been often enough.

 

[PikeBadger]

I’ve never noticed before the lack of discipline on display on the field that we’ve seen this year. We’ve had years of disappointing endings but this team looks like a hot mess so often this year. I’m hoping that the recent personnel movements makes for a cleaner, better executing team but I still think a few more attitudes need internal adjustment.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I’ve never noticed before the lack of discipline on display on the field that we’ve seen this year. We’ve had years of disappointing endings but this team looks like a hot mess so often this year. I’m hoping that the recent personnel movements makes for a cleaner, better executing team but I still think a few more attitudes need internal adjustment.

Agreed and possibly the Elephant in the (locker)room is AR himself? Given his status and importance to the team, he by far has the biggest influence on the other 52 guys based on what he does/doesn't do on and off the field. I can't say 100% that he is currently doing everything he should be. Sadly, nobody internally probably wants to say that outloud, for fear of dinging his ego. So the change is going to have to both be recognized and come from the source himself.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It's worth considering whether firing Montogomery and Whitehead is not for the apparent reasons, performance and/or critical mistakes alone.

Whitehead, for example, is not a guy you'd consider more than adequate and not exactly an answer to a long term question. But he's played better than the other obvious choices for the hybrid ILB role, moving ahead of Jones and Burks playing a full boat of snaps the last 2 weeks until he got ejected.

It's possible over these past 10 months that Gutekunst has achieved full GM status or something close to it, moving past the evident power sharing with McCarthy and Ball where all three were reporting to Murphy. Perhaps, the Montgomery and Whitehead gaffs were opportunities, not reasons. Perhaps Gutekunst wanted McCarthy to run A. Jones more and dumping Monty was a way to make that happen. Same with Burks or J. Jones or even Campbell at hybrid ILB. The fact of the matter is players develop by playing in money games. This is one way to see that they have the opportunity. And if it is the case, that would say Gutekunst is not in entire agreement with McCarthy's personnel usage.

It is worth considering, some food for thought.

As for the guys he's been signing in recent weeks, it looks kinda like 2018 Draft 2.0. These may have been guys Gutekunst scouted and liked at the time. As a general characterization with a few exceptions in the details, they were orginally mid-round picks signed by the Packers to one year (or 1/2 year) deals. They're young players without much of a resume except for Breeland, some with injury histories that derailed their projections. While a mid round pick gets a 4 year deal, there's little dead cap if the guy doesn't work out and gets cut before his rookie opening day. That's these guys too; without doing a full inspection I don't believe there's a dead cap $ among them. It kinda looks like an in-season training camp where the "final cut down" decision is whether they get re-signed for next year.

That's not to say this is just forward looking without consideration of a potential upgrade now. But you could say that about 2018 draft 1.0. You can't retroctively stack good drafts in place of those poor ones, but this kinda looks like an attempt at a cheap, partial substitute. One or more or none of these guys might work out and stick for 2019. But you could say that about the mid-to-low rounders in any draft.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's worth considering whether firing Montogomery and Whitehead is not for the apparent reasons, performance and/or critical mistakes alone.

Whitehead, for example, is not a guy you'd consider more than adequate and not exactly an answer to a long term question. But he's played better than the other obvious choices for the hybrid ILB role, moving ahead of Jones and Burks playing a full boat of snaps the last 2 weeks until he got ejected.

It's possible over these past 10 months that Gutekunst has achieved full GM status or something close to it, moving past the evident power sharing with McCarthy and Ball where all three were reporting to Murphy. Perhaps, the Montgomery and Whitehead gaffs were opportunities, not reasons. Perhaps Gutekunst wanted McCarthy to run A. Jones more and dumping Monty was a way to make that happen. Same with Burks or J. Jones or even Campbell at hybrid ILB. The fact of the matter is players develop by playing in money games. This is one way to see that they have the opportunity. And if it is the case, that would say Gutekunst is not in entire agreement with McCarthy's personnel usage.

It is worth considering, some food for thought.

As for the guys he's been signing in recent weeks, it looks kinda like 2018 Draft 2.0. These may have been guys Gutekunst scouted and liked at the time. As a general characterization with a few exceptions in the details, they were orginally mid-round picks signed by the Packers to one year (or 1/2 year) deals. They're young players without much of a resume except for Breeland, some with injury histories that derailed their projections. While a mid round pick gets a 4 year deal, there's little dead cap if the guy doesn't work out and gets cut before his rookie opening day. That's these guys too; without doing a full inspection I don't believe there's a dead cap $ among them. It kinda looks like an in-season training camp where the "final cut down" decision is whether they get re-signed for next year.

That's not to say this is just forward looking without consideration of a potential upgrade now. But you could say that about 2018 draft 1.0. You can't retroctively stack good drafts in place of those poor ones, but this kinda looks like an attempt at a cheap, partial substitute. One or more or none of these guys might work out and stick for 2019. But you could say that about the mid-to-low rounders in any draft.

Good observations. Gute is quickly moving towards this being his team and not one he inherited from TT.

Whether Gute is planning on retaining MM or not and maybe he (and Murphy) hasn't fully decided, I can't imagine him not at least consulting with MM first on the player releases. Now maybe he and MM disagreed and Gute used his GM power, but I think that over playing his power might not be the most prudent move if the ultimate goal is to remove MM from power. Gives MM too much wiggle room in saying "tough to run a team when your GM is cutting guys I need."

 

[PackAttack12]

Agreed and possibly the Elephant in the (locker)room is AR himself? Given his status and importance to the team, he by far has the biggest influence on the other 52 guys based on what he does/doesn't do on and off the field. I can't say 100% that he is currently doing everything he should be. Sadly, nobody internally probably wants to say that outloud, for fear of dinging his ego. So the change is going to have to both be recognized and come from the source himself.

What's the foundation behind this?

 

[swhitset]

It's worth considering whether firing Montogomery and Whitehead is not for the apparent reasons, performance and/or critical mistakes alone.

Whitehead, for example, is not a guy you'd consider more than adequate and not exactly an answer to a long term question. But he's played better than the other obvious choices for the hybrid ILB role, moving ahead of Jones and Burks playing a full boat of snaps the last 2 weeks until he got ejected.

It's possible over these past 10 months that Gutekunst has achieved full GM status or something close to it, moving past the evident power sharing with McCarthy and Ball where all three were reporting to Murphy. Perhaps, the Montgomery and Whitehead gaffs were opportunities, not reasons. Perhaps Gutekunst wanted McCarthy to run A. Jones more and dumping Monty was a way to make that happen. Same with Burks or J. Jones or even Campbell at hybrid ILB. The fact of the matter is players develop by playing in money games. This is one way to see that they have the opportunity. And if it is the case, that would say Gutekunst is not in entire agreement with McCarthy's personnel usage.

It is worth considering, some food for thought.

As for the guys he's been signing in recent weeks, it looks kinda like 2018 Draft 2.0. These may have been guys Gutekunst scouted and liked at the time. As a general characterization with a few exceptions in the details, they were orginally mid-round picks signed by the Packers to one year (or 1/2 year) deals. They're young players without much of a resume except for Breeland, some with injury histories that derailed their projections. While a mid round pick gets a 4 year deal, there's little dead cap if the guy doesn't work out and gets cut before his rookie opening day. That's these guys too; without doing a full inspection I don't believe there's a dead cap $ among them. It kinda looks like an in-season training camp where the "final cut down" decision is whether they get re-signed for next year.

That's not to say this is just forward looking without consideration of a potential upgrade now. But you could say that about 2018 draft 1.0. You can't retroctively stack good drafts in place of those poor ones, but this kinda looks like an attempt at a cheap, partial substitute. One or more or none of these guys might work out and stick for 2019. But you could say that about the mid-to-low rounders in any draft.

Your first few paragraphs about the relationship between Gute and McCarthy seems like you are building a house of cards. I am in full agreement with your assessment of Gute’s mid season team building methods however.

 

[AmishMafia]

It's worth considering whether firing Montogomery and Whitehead is not for the apparent reasons, performance and/or critical mistakes alone.

Whitehead, for example, is not a guy you'd consider more than adequate and not exactly an answer to a long term question. But he's played better than the other obvious choices for the hybrid ILB role, moving ahead of Jones and Burks playing a full boat of snaps the last 2 weeks until he got ejected.

It's possible over these past 10 months that Gutekunst has achieved full GM status or something close to it, moving past the evident power sharing with McCarthy and Ball where all three were reporting to Murphy. Perhaps, the Montgomery and Whitehead gaffs were opportunities, not reasons. Perhaps Gutekunst wanted McCarthy to run A. Jones more and dumping Monty was a way to make that happen. Same with Burks or J. Jones or even Campbell at hybrid ILB. The fact of the matter is players develop by playing in money games. This is one way to see that they have the opportunity. And if it is the case, that would say Gutekunst is not in entire agreement with McCarthy's personnel usage.

It is worth considering, some food for thought.

As for the guys he's been signing in recent weeks, it looks kinda like 2018 Draft 2.0. These may have been guys Gutekunst scouted and liked at the time. As a general characterization with a few exceptions in the details, they were orginally mid-round picks signed by the Packers to one year (or 1/2 year) deals. They're young players without much of a resume except for Breeland, some with injury histories that derailed their projections. While a mid round pick gets a 4 year deal, there's little dead cap if the guy doesn't work out and gets cut before his rookie opening day. That's these guys too; without doing a full inspection I don't believe there's a dead cap $ among them. It kinda looks like an in-season training camp where the "final cut down" decision is whether they get re-signed for next year.

That's not to say this is just forward looking without consideration of a potential upgrade now. But you could say that about 2018 draft 1.0. You can't retroctively stack good drafts in place of those poor ones, but this kinda looks like an attempt at a cheap, partial substitute. One or more or none of these guys might work out and stick for 2019. But you could say that about the mid-to-low rounders in any draft.

If Gute is cutting guys to force MMs hand at who he plays, that does not sound like a very good structure or working relationship. It sounds like an epic team collapse in the making.

Maybe MM exerting a new level of responsibility in cutting players? Not very likely either.

Whatever the reasons, it seems like there is a new attitude of little tolerance for bad attitudes/ bad decisions.

Personally, I think it is Gute sending a message to players to not be complacent. Keep your head in the game, work hard, and focus. I think both TT and MM were apt to stick with players and coaches coaches too long. To loyal.

 

[Jerellh528]

I’ve been waiting for this for a long time. Hold players accountable and cut the fat from the team that doesn’t want to be here or don’t act like professionals.
Good on Gute, he has some balls it seems.

 

[rodell330]

Gute actually strikes me as the type of guy who watches shows like First Take, Undisputed, NFL Live etc....he’s heard the rumblings around GB on how the Franchise has failed Rodgers, and how management is our biggest issue. Which means He’s also heard the rumblings about McCarthy as well. I see him trying to detach himself from any of that negative stain TT left behind when he left. People still talk about how bad management is in GB even tho TT isn’t the GM anymore and we are 8 games into the Gute tenure. I have a feeling that if the Packers miss the playoffs there will be even bigger changes than what we even anticipate...McCarthy would be just the top of the iceberg. I mean geesh...how many drafts did TT acquire two additional 1st rd draft picks? Gute did this in his first draft....as well as getting two 1st rd talents in Alexander and Jackson.

 

[Mondio]

Lots of reasons could be attributed to these cuts. My thoughts on most of them, none of them were really going to be here long term. HaHa had a foot out the door. IMO he could have been traded the day someone offered us something after his lat remarks. Monty was a guy that worked and they wanted to give some opportunity to reward that work, but he was taking snaps away from the guys that were going to be our RB's going forward. Monty wasn't in our future. Whitehead was a guy you look to replace anyway. Burks needs to play and J.Jones needs to play. We need to know what we have going forward. It's sink or swim time for some players and this team. I have no issue making them get it, or get them gone at this point.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What's the foundation behind this?

The foundation of me saying possibly AR needs an attitude adjustment? Have you watched his demeanor on the field the last few years? Look, he is no questions asked, hands down a great player, but I'm not so sure his attitude is winning a lot of points with the other players. Too often I see this look of "WTF now?" or "WTH are you doing" on his face. The closest thing to a team guy I saw from him this year is when he went over and put his arm around Crosby after his horrific day. Maybe I am wrong and all his teammates love him, but from the outside looking in, I would understand if some are a bit tired of his "woe is me" attitude.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If Gute is cutting guys to force MMs hand at who he plays, that does not sound like a very good structure or working relationship. It sounds like an epic team collapse in the making.

It's not much different than with an "I'm the decider" GM in the Thompson mold, which is typical in pro sports except when the owner (or in this case Murphy) weighs in on the big decisions. A typical GM may cut a player or let one walk in free agency because he's targetting a better player or value proposition replacement who's on the bench, available in FA or from the draft board to step in. The coach may not agree with those moves from a "decider" GM. But that's typicially the way sports organizations are run--the GM picks the ingredients and the coach cooks the meal.

Now, if Gutekunst has such power now, which is just a suggestion of something to think about, and he doesn't even listen seriously to what a coach has to say about needs and personnel, that is a mistake. But if there is disagreement, the GM decides in a typical organization.

That's not what makes for an "epic team collapse." Making bad personnel decisions would do that. Besides, this may be an epic team collapse or a semi-collapse in the making already. Time will tell.

If this happens to be case, keep in mind McCarthy has one more year left on his contract. I expect him to be the coach next season. But if this team's performance declines futher into something resembling "collapse", he just might get the axe.

 

[Mondio]

Gute actually strikes me as the type of guy who watches shows like First Take, Undisputed, NFL Live etc....he’s heard the rumblings around GB on how the Franchise has failed Rodgers, and how management is our biggest issue. Which means He’s also heard the rumblings about McCarthy as well. I see him trying to detach himself from any of that negative stain TT left behind when he left. People still talk about how bad management is in GB even tho TT isn’t the GM anymore and we are 8 games into the Gute tenure. I have a feeling that if the Packers miss the playoffs there will be even bigger changes than what we even anticipate...McCarthy would be just the top of the iceberg. I mean geesh...how many drafts did TT acquire two additional 1st rd draft picks? Gute did this in his first draft....as well as getting two 1st rd talents in Alexander and Jackson.

If gute listens to any of that talking head ******** he should be fired today. that stuff is for people that know nothing but want to feel and act like they do. It's daytime drama tv for those who the athletic competition and sport is not enough for. it's garbage 90% of the time.

 

[Dantés]

This is so vague that I am almost embarrassed by it, but I recall someone (see-- I don't even remember who) suggesting that Jones was never really right, health-wise during the first half of the season. If true, perhaps that, and not performance, explains why he was at times a "healthy" scratch. If he's good to go now and they like him in that hybrid S/LB role, that would explain why they were willing to move on from Whitehead.

I am still surprised by the move. He was playing pretty well early in the season and Pettine was lauding his football acumen. I probably got too sucked in to thinking he was a more than JAG.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is so vague that I am almost embarrassed by it, but I recall someone (see-- I don't even remember who) suggesting that Jones was never really right, health-wise during the first half of the season. If true, perhaps that, and not performance, explains why he was at times a "healthy" scratch. If he's good to go now and they like him in that hybrid S/LB role, that would explain why they were willing to move on from Whitehead.

I am still surprised by the move. He was playing pretty well early in the season and Pettine was lauding his football acumen. I probably got too sucked in to thinking he was a more than JAG.

He started the season with an ankle injury that he suffered in the preseason. Guessing that is what you are thinking of? Not sure when he started practicing again, but he only saw 4 snaps against the Lions and 51 against the Patriots.....his time is.....now.

 

[Dantés]

He started the season with an ankle injury that he suffered in the preseason. Guessing that is what you are thinking of? Not sure when he started practicing again, but he only saw 4 snaps against the Lions and 51 against the Patriots.....his time is.....now.

Yeah, I was aware of the injury, but someone (maybe Nagler? maybe an ATL guy?) seemed to suggest that they had been told that he wasn't right for a while and now he's ready to go.