Whats with all the Crosby hate.

[Kitten]

This is either Crosby himself, or it's GBP on an alt.

Poor GBP! Image if this was one of our favorite players we were talking about cutting!

 

[GreenGoldAngel]

That's fine. People should get on his case for that. But to insist that he be cut just to sign another kicker who WILL do the same thing at some point is just plain ludicrous.

It takes very little to screw up a kick. Ever notice the holder has a finger on the ground before the snap? He's telling the kicker that he's going to put the ball right there. If he misplaces it by one inch it can look like a good hold on TV but that's more than enough to completely mess up a kick, especially at longer distances and especially if the holder is a little late getting the ball down. But nobody every blames the holder unless the laces are crooked. BTW, he has had a different, completely green holder all three years.



The error is in the idea that a single player loses a game. TEAMS lose games. I bet for every missed kick that you want to point to as costing us a game, you can also find a fumble, dropped pass, holding penalty, dropped INT, missed tackle, etc. that ALSO cost us the same game.

Have you ever wondered why coaches and players rarely blame the kicker for losing a game? It's because they know there are things that THEY should have done better that could have won that game too.

Yes, you expect your kicker to make a game-winning FG, but you also expect the rest of your team to play better than to be in that situation in the first place. To place all the blame on the kicker is disingenuous at best.

Wait a minute, you can't have it both ways. When Crocby misses a kick you say it's a team game and the team lost the game. Yet Crosby supporters are saying at the say time that HE won the Jets game all by himself. ??????

 

[GreenGoldAngel]

GreenBlood, next time you quote one of my posts, be courtious enough to quote the entire post and not cherry pick it like you did using 2001 to prove that Longwell was not that great. Regarding Crosby's powerful leg: Career percentage of FG made over 50 yards, Longwell 59% (with GB), Crosby 53.3%. I care about the Packer's welfare not Crosby's.

 

[PackersRS]

Why don't we do a poll then? Let's see how the majority feels...

Because, the way I'm looking at it, there are two guys defending him, and 35369 others bashing him.

But, yeah, the 2 guys are the clear voice of reason... Stupid, stupid vast majority.

 

[GreenBlood]

Wait a minute, you can't have it both ways. When Crocby misses a kick you say it's a team game and the team lost the game. Yet Crosby supporters are saying at the say time that HE won the Jets game all by himself. ??????

I was using your logic, which I should probably avoid, given how illogical it is.

 

[GreenBlood]

GreenBlood, next time you quote one of my posts, be courtious enough to quote the entire post and not cherry pick it like you did using 2001 to prove that Longwell was not that great.

What the hell are you talking about? Are intentionally being obtuse or are you really that clueless? Obviously, I was pointing to Longwell's 2001 stats to show that ANY kicker can have a bad year, and 2001 was terrible for him. I NEVER said Longwell wasn't a good kicker. If you weren't paying close enough attention to get that, that's not my fault.

Regarding Crosby's powerful leg: Career percentage of FG made over 50 yards, Longwell 59% (with GB), Crosby 53.3%.

Let's compare apples to apples here. Experience is a big factor with kickers. In Longwell's first 4 seasons he was 55.5% on 50+ yarders. If Crosby hits his next 50 yarder, he will surpass Longwell's percentage in his first 4 seasons.

I care about the Packer's welfare not Crosby's.

So who would you sign?

 

[GreenBlood]

Why don't we do a poll then? Let's see how the majority feels...

Because, the way I'm looking at it, there are two guys defending him, and 35369 others bashing him.

But, yeah, the 2 guys are the clear voice of reason... Stupid, stupid vast majority.

Fallacy: Appeal to Belief

 

[GreenGoldAngel]

Please don't cherry pick. I know why you choose 2001.

Longwell:

1997 80% FGM
1998 87.9%
1999 83.3%
2000 86.8%
2001 64.5%
2002 82.4%
2003 88.5%
2004 85.7%
2005 74.1%
Those were his Green Bay years, after he went to Minnesota and played in the dome...he had hit over 90%

Crosby:
2007 79.5%
2008 79,4%
2009 75%
2010 73.9%

Maybe it's just me, but I see a downward trend.

GreenBlood....this what I was talking about. You ignored all the statistics I provided and only and only choose the line "I know why you choose 2001". I made my point and you ran away from it.

 

[GreenGoldAngel]

What the hell are you talking about? Are intentionally being obtuse or are you really that clueless? Obviously, I was pointing to Longwell's 2001 stats to show that ANY kicker can have a bad year, and 2001 was terrible for him. I NEVER said Longwell wasn't a good kicker. If you weren't paying close enough attention to get that, that's not my fault.





So who would you sign?

Obtuse? Clueless.?..I think on post #92 quite clear. You completely ignored the fact that Crosby's stats have gone done each year. But heck, what I find funny is so many posts over a kicker. No hard feelings on my part and I wish you well.

 

[ivo610]

Let's compare apples to apples here. Experience is a big factor with kickers. In Longwell's first 4 seasons he was 55.5% on 50+ yarders. If Crosby hits his next 50 yarder, he will surpass Longwell's percentage in his first 4 seasons.

So its about 50 yard field goals not overall field goal percentage? Thanks for clearing that up for me. Good to know those short yard ones arent worth as much.

 

[GreenBlood]

GreenBlood....this what I was talking about. You ignored all the statistics I provided and only and only choose the line "I know why you choose 2001". I made my point and you ran away from it.

You still don't get it, do you? I never ran away from anything. You further reinforced my position so I didn't think it required a response. My POINT was that even a good kicker can have a horrible season. Were you refuting that or something???

 

[GreenBlood]

Obtuse? Clueless.?..I think on post #92 quite clear. You completely ignored the fact that Crosby's stats have gone done each year.

This year has 4 games to go and he's only 1% behind last year.

 

[GreenBlood]

So its about 50 yard field goals not overall field goal percentage? Thanks for clearing that up for me. Good to know those short yard ones arent worth as much.

How about you go back and read? It was GreenGoldAngel that turned the focus to 50 yarders, not me.

 

[GreenGoldAngel]

You still don't get it, do you? I never ran away from anything. You further reinforced my position so I didn't think it required a response. My POINT was that even a good kicker can have a horrible season. Were you refuting that or something???

I bet most forum members had no idea what you meant by bringing up the year 2001. Try making your point more clearly. Why didn't you say "that even a good kicker can have a bad year, for example Ryan Longwell in 2001"? IMO, you did a poor job making your point. Just let it go man.

 

[ivo610]

How about you go back and read? It was GreenGoldAngel that turned the focus to 50 yarders, not me.

How far do I have to go back for you to justify Crosby is worth keeping? I still havent read why you would want to keep one of the least accurate kickers in the league.

 

[ivo610]

You still don't get it, do you? I never ran away from anything. You further reinforced my position so I didn't think it required a response. My POINT was that even a good kicker can have a horrible season. Were you refuting that or something???

1 season I can understand. But every season? By that reasoning Peyton Manning is your 1 down year player (rookie season lets say), and Crosby is Alex Smith, never had a good season.

 

[GreenBlood]

I bet most forum members had no idea what you meant by bringing up the year 2001. Try making your point more clearly. Why didn't you say "that even a good kicker can have a bad year, for example Ryan Longwell in 2001"? IMO, you did a poor job making your point. Just let it go man.

Go back and read post #18. I seriously doubt any reasonable person would think I was saying Longwell is a bad kicker. What I said was that people were saying the same negative stuff and worse about Longwell in 2001. The only logical reason I would even mention Longwell is because he IS a good kicker. To point to his 2001 season to demonstrate that Longwell is a BAD kicker would only defeat my own argument. What sense does that make?

When I referred to him in post #81, I used a qualifier. I said he was a disaster that year, which implies that he wasn't a disaster in other years. It was clear that I was referring to that one season as being a poor one and that season alone.

I highly doubt anyone but you thought that I was trying to say Longwell was a bad kicker in general. That would make no sense in the context of the discussion. The context was to show that even a good kicker can have a terrible year, and I think everyone else got that.

If most forum members missed my point, as you contend, I suspect there would be a dozen people blasitng me for saying Longwell is a bad kicker. For some reason, you're the only one.

I'm truly sorry you didn't understand what I meant, but I reject the idea that that's my fault.

 

[GreenBlood]

How far do I have to go back for you to justify Crosby is worth keeping? I still havent read why you would want to keep one of the least accurate kickers in the league.

What I'm against is the idea some have that we should cut him and sign some guy off the street. I'm all for bringing in competition for training camp next year. And yes, I'd love to have the Nebraska kid, but not for anything higher than a 6th round pick, or MAYBE a 5th rounder if we didn't have a 6th and there was nobody else on the board to immediately help our OL or pass rush.

 

[GreenBlood]

1 season I can understand. But every season? By that reasoning Peyton Manning is your 1 down year player (rookie season lets say), and Crosby is Alex Smith, never had a good season.

Crosby is young. Did you ever see Morten Anderson's first 3 seasons? Or Akers' 3 season slump from 05-07? Or Vinatieri's first 4 seasons... 3 of which were very mediocre? Or have you seen how many sub-80% seasons Gary Anderson had? All of those guys have reputations as great kickers. To just categorically declare that Crosby must go is a bit premature, unless someone else competes for the job and beats him out.

 

[longtimefan]

People said the same stuff about Longwell after 2001 when he only made 64% of his kicks.... yes 64%! Crosby is fine. Someone made the asinine suggestion to trade a first round pick for Billy Cundiff. WTF?! ANY kicker can have a down year. Even the undisputedly great Morten Anderson had 8 sub-78% seasons. Elam had 6. Vinatieri has had 2. Akers has had 3. Jacke only had 2 season over 78% and we won a Super Bowl with him.

The point is that Crosby is too young to give up on because of a couple sub-78% seasons, and he could still get over that threshold in the last 4 games of this season.

Seen little discussion about this exact post..

I think he is trying to say......even good or GREAT kickers can have one down year


But Crosby has never been good or great lol He started out okay this year..but that Washington game stick in my head (I had forgotten bout that game)

 

[ivo610]

]Did you ever see Morten Anderson's first 3 seasons? ]

No, I am not 82 years old. Did he wear a leather helmet?

 

[PackersRS]

Fallacy: Appeal to Belief

Of course that alone isn't reasoning.

But we've stated our reasons pretty clear. And if the VAST majority can see it, and you can't, I'm sorry, but odds are you are wrong.

But, hey, if you like missing key FGs and 70% accuracy, as well as bad kickoffs, go for it.

I don't.

 

[Green_Bay_Packers]

That was the first miss of Crosby’s career from inside 30 yards. He’s now 38-of-39 from inside 30 yards in his four-year career. Both McCarthy and special teams coach Shawn Slocum blamed a protection breakdown on the right side of the line, which forced Crosby to pull the kick to the left.

Slocum compared Crosby’s reaction to the pressure on his right side to that of a golfer who sees something flash out of the corner of his eye right before his swing. It’s only natural to compensate, subconsciously or not, in that split second.

There is the reason why he missed!

 

[aaronqb]

retire

 

[Kitten]

Who knew Crosby would cause a small war to break out up in here? He does have his fan base, LOL! Maybe this thread will be motivation for him to come out and kick like he is channeling his inner Morten Anderson (my fav all time kicker, somebody game him a mention previously). It worked for Starks, you never know!