We need a new OC!

[Mondio]

Darn! You got me again. I keep forgetting I've joined the bandwagon that insists the last 3-4 years have simply been a mirage and MM's offense has actually been just as innovative as Payton's, McVay's, Peterson's, Reid's, and Shanahan's...I'm new to this so give me time and pretty soon I'll get used to just blaming everyone EXCEPT McCarthy for problems that continue to plague the team he's in charge of.

ahhh yes, the perennial winners in the league. the toppers of the offensive charts year after year. Or 2 guys that have won nothing more than MM and some johnny come lately's that come and go every single year in the NFL.

and yes, when the choice is take snaps away from the starters to work a back up, or get your start snaps in practice, it hampers the ability to develop someone.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

ahhh yes, the perennial winners in the league. the toppers of the offensive charts year after year. Or 2 guys that have won nothing more than MM and some johnny come lately's that come and go every single year in the NFL.

and yes, when the choice is take snaps away from the starters to work a back up, or get your start snaps in practice, it hampers the ability to develop someone.

You're right! The only possible way to evaluate offensive scheme is to look at the win-loss record! Personnel has nothing to do with it...Oh, and Payton, Pederson, and Reid have been just a little successful in this league. Shanahan turned Matt Ryan into an MVP which might be the biggest accomplishment of all.

 

[Mondio]

You're right! The only possible way to evaluate offensive scheme is to look at the win-loss record! Personnel has nothing to do with it...Oh, and Payton, Pederson, and Reid have been just a little successful in this league. Shanahan turned Matt Ryan into an MVP which might be the biggest accomplishment of all.

Like I said, 2 guys that have done what MM has done and a couple johnny come latelys

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Like I said, 2 guys that have done what MM has done and a couple johnny come latelys

Open your eyes. If you can't see that these 3 guys, in additon to Sean McVay, are so much better at play design than McCarthy, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Pederson won a SB with a backup QB, Reid turned Smith into a 4,000 yard passer and has a 2nd year rookie looking like AR 2.0, McVay turned chicken **!* into chicken salad to top the league in points scored, and Payton has topped the league in offense more than any other current active by a wide margin without a ton of elite talent around Beers.

James Jones hinted at us having inferior route running concepts to other teams, and Brady basically said that Rodgers' system was holding him back and he would throw for 7k yards in the Patriots' system. Mike isn't bad by any means,I think he's a good teacher of how to play the game, but his outdated play designs leave the WRs at a disadvantage and require every bit of AR's gifts to make them work. And he's just a terrible play caller when Rodgers is out.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Like I said, 2 guys that have done what MM has done and a couple johnny come latelys

Just for clarification, are you classifying Pederson in the johny come lately category? Because while he's recent, he sure did a lot to that offense to win a Super Bowl.

 

[Mondio]

Just for clarification, are you classifying Pederson in the johny come lately category? Because while he's recent, he sure did a lot to that offense to win a Super Bowl.

He did, timing was perfect. I don't think they sustain it for even one season with Foles at QB, now he has Wentz back. Let's seem him stay in the top 10 for a decade. Then we'll talk. Until then, it's just 1. I've seen so many come and go. Every year it's the same. Now I don't think Pedersen will just go. I think he's a good coach, but lets see what happens after 2-3 seasons of teams playing his tendencies, see how the players change, roster turnover, etc. Last year was impressive, but i think it's overblown. I don't think they'd make the playoffs trying to do the same thing again this year

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Open your eyes. If you can't see that these 3 guys, in additon to Sean McVay, are so much better at play design than McCarthy, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Pederson won a SB with a backup QB, Reid turned Smith into a 4,000 yard passer and has a 2nd year rookie looking like AR 2.0, McVay turned chicken **!* into chicken salad to top the league in points scored, and Payton has topped the league in offense more than any other current active by a wide margin without a ton of elite talent around Beers.

James Jones hinted at us having inferior route running concepts to other teams, and Brady basically said that Rodgers' system was holding him back and he would throw for 7k yards in the Patriots' system. Mike isn't bad by any means,I think he's a good teacher of how to play the game, but his outdated play designs leave the WRs at a disadvantage and require every bit of AR's gifts to make them work. And he's just a terrible play caller when Rodgers is out.

You know it's so funny how nobody is mentioning John DeFilipo and the magical Viking offense anymore that everybody was talking about coming into this season and the last couple weeks. Gee, I wonder what happened there.

******* too, why do people keep mentioning Kyle Shanahan as some innovative offensive genius when he has had 1 successful season out of 10 years and had a swath load of talent and called a terrible game in the Superbowl to boot? Some genius get real.

I like Andy Reid, but he still has a goose egg in the Superbowl win column, and MM must be fired for not winning more SBs, Reid has failed that standard with star QBs at the helm. Payton, offensive genius sure, but he's hired atrocious defensive coordinators worse than Dom Capers and has had losing seasons because of it.

Pederson has done a good job too, but he did not have a backup QB, he had a starter level QB as good as Garropolo brought in as an insurance policy and not a stinko like Brett Hundley who has one more chance in Seattle where I guarantee Seahawk fans are praying nothing happens to Russell Wilson.

Only coach I really have on my radar who could possibly be seen as an upgrade (if that) on McCarthy is McVay because of the turnaround in LA. But that's pretty iffy.

Bottom line is bringing up these straw men to try and make sh-t stick on the wall is stupid. You two posters know nothing about play calling and offensive innovation.

 

[Eddie Rangel]

The defense won that Super Bowl. The offense was good but the defense that year with Woodson, Jenkins, etc. was terrific.

I agree that defense played a huge role that role, but to say philbin didn’t help us is discrediting Rodgers MVP game with 3 touchdowns and over 300 yards. We also had a terrible run game, what’s new lol, but we managed to outscore the Steelers.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

He did, timing was perfect. I don't think they sustain it for even one season with Foles at QB, now he has Wentz back. Let's seem him stay in the top 10 for a decade. Then we'll talk. Until then, it's just 1. I've seen so many come and go. Every year it's the same. Now I don't think Pedersen will just go. I think he's a good coach, but lets see what happens after 2-3 seasons of teams playing his tendencies, see how the players change, roster turnover, etc. Last year was impressive, but i think it's overblown. I don't think they'd make the playoffs trying to do the same thing again this year

Pederson won as many Super Bowls as MM and manufactured an elite offense with a slightly-above-average QB in Wentz, no great receivers, no great running backs, and a good oline. I can't think of many other coaches that have come in and done more with less, let alone "every year"...

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I agree that defense played a huge role that role, but to say philbin didn’t help us is discrediting Rodgers MVP game with 3 touchdowns and over 300 yards. We also had a terrible run game, what’s new lol, but we managed to outscore the Steelers.

That season was on the back of the defense. Rodgers had 28 TDs and 11 INTs that season. You can focus on one game all you want but the defense is what carried the Packers to the title that year;not to mention the Packers defense forced 3 turnovers in that Steelers game, one returned for a TD (man I miss Collins) which might have helped the team win. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not claiming the offense was awful, the 2010 Packers weren't the Bucs or Ravens. I'm just saying that MM's only Super Bowl was primarily won by defense.

 

[Mondio]

Pederson won as many Super Bowls as MM and manufactured an elite offense with a slightly-above-average QB in Wentz, no great receivers, no great running backs, and a good oline. I can't think of many other coaches that have come in and done more with less, let alone "every year"...

Every year some coach is changing the way the NFL plays football, and maybe they are still standing by the end of the season, it's a rarity to see it from the same coach 3 years later, most are never mentioned again 2 years later.

and Pedersen did something special last year and I still maintain if he had to play the entire year this season with the same players he finished last year with, they'd be lucky to even make the playoffs. Anyway, To suggest they didn't have a lot of really good players and a defense that took some pressure off that offense at critical times last year is silly.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

It's the same thing year in and year out. Build straw men out of other teams coaches because their success must surely mean MM is failing. Smh.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

To anyone who thinks McCarthy is a good offensive coach, watch some play breakdowns of the offenses orchestrated by the best OCs in the league. You'll see intelligent design which manipulates the defense into creating space for the guys with the ball, as opposed to 90s ISO routes where the QB has to be magnificent in order to make the plays succeed consistently. And those fans can enjoy seeing players open nearly every plan, as opposed to GB fans who use the few instances a game where the guy got open as proof that we have a great offense which just isn't executing. Lol

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

To anyone who thinks McCarthy is a good offensive coach, watch some play breakdowns of the offenses orchestrated by the best OCs in the league. You'll see intelligent design which manipulates the defense into creating space for the guys with the ball, as opposed to 90s ISO routes where the QB has to be magnificent in order to make the plays succeed consistently. And those fans can enjoy seeing players open nearly every plan, as opposed to GB fans who use the few instances a game where the guy got open as proof that we have a great offense which just isn't executing. Lol

We also don't have selective vision like some do around here, nor do we go building faulty straw man arguments like some do around here.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

We also don't have selective vision like some do around here, nor do we go building faulty straw man arguments like some do around here.

Please. You don't have selective vision, yet you miss things which are clearly obvious because of your commitment to the team. I commend you, but I'm not seeing the same thing in McCarthy that you all do. It's pretty difficult to screw up with AR as your QB, but he sure does when he's hurt. A coach with that track record should have an offense which looks at least respectable with even a meh backup, but ours looks like a bad team with a bad backup QB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Jordy Nelson was a top-7 WR while here and the Packers frequently fielded one of the best olines in the NFL. That's a pretty good amount of offensive talent. Not to mention Greg Jennings, Cobb before injuries slowed him, and while Finley was not top-5 at TE, he was certainly top-10.

And the excuse about developing backup QBs doesn't work. If a coach who is noted for developing QBs is unable to do so because of the structure of the NFL, then that ability is pointless.

Darn! You got me again. I keep forgetting I've joined the bandwagon that insists the last 3-4 years have simply been a mirage and MM's offense has actually been just as innovative as Payton's, McVay's, Peterson's, Reid's, and Shanahan's...I'm new to this so give me time and pretty soon I'll get used to just blaming everyone EXCEPT McCarthy for problems that continue to plague the team he's in charge of.

Aside of Payton and Reid none of the coaches you mentioned have had permanent success, therefore it might be smart to wait before putting them above MM. Shanahan hasn't even had any success as a head coach.

While the Saints are one of only two teams to have scored more points than the Packers over MM's tenure you have to realize they had six seasons without a winning record with Brees starting every single game. Reid on the other hand hasn't won a single Super Bowl and his teams which featured super innovative offense have scored an average of 1.5 points less per contest than the Packers since 2006.

While the Packers definitely have had good players on offense over the past few years they didn't feature any elite skill players aside of Rodgers.

Once again, you're being completely unrealistic expecting McCarthy to develop a backup quarterback into a starter being able to win more than half of the games, especially considering he was only given a fifth, a seventh rounder and a bunch of undrafted free agents to work with. We'll see how Kizer works out in the long haul.

Open your eyes. If you can't see that these 3 guys, in additon to Sean McVay, are so much better at play design than McCarthy, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Pederson won a SB with a backup QB, Reid turned Smith into a 4,000 yard passer and has a 2nd year rookie looking like AR 2.0, McVay turned chicken **!* into chicken salad to top the league in points scored, and Payton has topped the league in offense more than any other current active by a wide margin without a ton of elite talent around Beers.

Once again, the Packers have scored the third most points in the league over McCarthy's tenure as the head coach. It's ridiculous to suggest he doesn't have any clue how to successfully call offensive plays.

That season was on the back of the defense. Rodgers had 28 TDs and 11 INTs that season. You can focus on one game all you want but the defense is what carried the Packers to the title that year;not to mention the Packers defense forced 3 turnovers in that Steelers game, one returned for a TD (man I miss Collins) which might have helped the team win. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not claiming the offense was awful, the 2010 Packers weren't the Bucs or Ravens. I'm just saying that MM's only Super Bowl was primarily won by defense.

It seems you forget about the performance by the offense in the divisional round in Atlanta as well, possibly the greatest postseason performance by a quarterback ever.

I'm not seeing the same thing in McCarthy that you all do. It's pretty difficult to screw up with AR as your QB, but he sure does when he's hurt.

Once McCarthy was given a serviceable backup in Flynn the team averaged 28.7 points with him starting six games. Of course you keep ignoring that as it doesn't fit your premise.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Aside of Payton and Reid none of the coaches you mentioned have had permanent success, therefore it might be smart to wait before putting them above MM. Shanahan hasn't even had any success as a head coach.

While the Packers definitely have had good players on offense over the past few years they didn't feature any elite skill players aside of Rodgers.


Once again, the Packers have scored the third most points in the league over McCarthy's tenure as the head coach. It's ridiculous to suggest he doesn't have any clue how to successfully call offensive plays.

It seems you forget about the performance by the offense in the divisional round in Atlanta as well, possibly the greatest postseason performance by a quarterback ever.


Once McCarthy was given a serviceable backup in Flynn the team averaged 28.7 points with him starting six games. Of course you keep ignoring that as it doesn't fit your premise.

1) MM's skill is supposedly as an offensive guru. Shanahan is a better offensive coach. It's fairly accurate to point to other team's offensive systems as being more advanced and effective than MM's (again, you seem to want to ignore that MM has the best QB in NFL history when evaluating his offense)

2) I pointed out that the Packers haven't had elite players on offense the past few years and the Packers' offense has suffered because of it. That's my point. Without elite talent at numerous positions the Packers become overly reliant on Rodgers because MM's system doesn't help other players.

3) I didn't forget. I just placed more weight on the other games and didn't somehow credit MM's offense as being the main factor in winning a Super Bowl based on a couple of games during a 20 game season.

4) I never ignored Flynn. I've specifically included Flynn. It turned out that when Flynn wasn't surrounded with great offensive talent he wasn't actually that great a QB elsewhere. However, if you'd like to base part of you "MM is a great offensive coach" on a backup QB who started one game for the Packers in 2010 and another game in 2011 then I can't really argue with that. I tend to believe more recent evidence.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Once McCarthy was given a serviceable backup in Flynn the team averaged 28.7 points with him starting six games. Of course you keep ignoring that as it doesn't fit your premise.

Of course, something that happened 4+ years ago obviously means that the game has not actually passed MM by.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

1) MM's skill is supposedly as an offensive guru. Shanahan is a better offensive coach. It's fairly accurate to point to other team's offensive systems as being more advanced and effective than MM's (again, you seem to want to ignore that MM has the best QB in NFL history when evaluating his offense)

2) I pointed out that the Packers haven't had elite players on offense the past few years and the Packers' offense has suffered because of it. That's my point. Without elite talent at numerous positions the Packers become overly reliant on Rodgers because MM's system doesn't help other players.

3) I didn't forget. I just placed more weight on the other games and didn't somehow credit MM's offense as being the main factor in winning a Super Bowl based on a couple of games during a 20 game season.

4) I never ignored Flynn. I've specifically included Flynn. It turned out that when Flynn wasn't surrounded with great offensive talent he wasn't actually that great a QB elsewhere. However, if you'd like to base part of you "MM is a great offensive coach" on a backup QB who started one game for the Packers in 2010 and another game in 2011 then I can't really argue with that. I tend to believe more recent evidence.

1) It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that Kyle Shanahan has had more success than McCarthy. He has either been an offensive coordinator or head coach in this league for 10 years and his teams finished within the top 10 in scoring only three times while ending up 20th or worse in six seasons. I'm really devastated the Packers don't have an offensive guru like that as their head coach. I'm well aware of the fact that McCarthy benefits from having Rodgers as the starting quarterback but credit him for developing #12 into an elite one.

2) The Packers never had multiple elite players on offense during any season of McCarthy's tenure. Yet the Packers have featured one of the most prolific scoring offenses in the league over the past 12 years.

3) I agree the defense was the better unit during the 2010 season. The offense was good as well though.

4) Flynn started another four games for the Packers in 2013 as well. A team scoring an average of 28.7 points per game is an impressive feat in the league, especially with a backup quarterback. The coaching staff should get credit for it.

Of course, something that happened 4+ years ago obviously means that the game has not actually passed MM by.

Aside of Hundley, who wasn't ready to start at the pro level last season, there's no other data available on how McCarthy does with a backup quarterback.

 

[Mondio]

Aside of Hundley, who wasn't ready to start at the pro level last season, there's no other data available on how McCarthy does with a backup quarterback.

But if there were, they’d show he sucks as an OC. At least for the purposes of this thread

 

[XPack]

Becoming obvious....

 

[Patriotplayer90]

It's frustrating to see less talented QBs have WRs running freely and openly around the field, while Rodgers has to work so hard for every single yard.

 

[ls1bob]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-packers-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-bills/amp
Looks like Aaron isn’t too happy with the game plan from the coaching staff on offense.

 

[pacmaniac]

What happened? We all thought our O would be back to 2011 caliber after Philbin came back...

 

[XPack]

Run play on 3rd and 11! Why the heck are we paying AR12 this much for the game-plan to **** it up?