Viks vs Pack

[adambr2]

What was the teams record last season with Rodgers? Oh I know, it was his "thumb".

People expecting THIS roster to compete, especially on offense are just fooling themselves.

Upon reading this, I ran to the pre-season predictions thread, eager to point out to you that you HAD in fact predicted us to compete, only to find out you predicted a season of.....5-12, or roughly consistent with our current pace. (Sigh)

 

[OldSchool101]

Same HC that went 39-9 his first 3 seasons. So as much as you want to think that MLF is a bad coach, I for one wouldn't agree.

I second that.

I base this also on repeated history. When we go back and review threads of nearly any good Packer player (that even gets a second contract etc) I see a group of doomsday fans early on in their careers as noted in the thread history. Those same fans have a history in here shorter than our players they ridiculed!
Very few Packer players have ever had full support out of the gate. God sees us through the lens color of his Son and I don’t see why that’s such a bad thing to similarly carry that philosophy to others. I don’t think it’s an insult to have Green n Gold glasses. I have Green n Gold everywhere else why would I stop at glasses?? I even have Green n Gold Socks which is sort of my version of Donnie Osmond Socks!

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[Magooch]

While I agree with this, to some extent, it is very hard to be a consistent winner in the NFL without elite, healthy talent. See San Fran and the Rams. Throw in a bit of luck, scheduling and as I alluded to, injuries and you have a lot of variables to decide on, before just firing a coach.

If there was one thing I would fault MLF for, it is hanging on to Joe Barry. To do that though, I would want to confirm that he has 100% of the power to make a change or does some of that power lie with Gute/Murphy?

Yeah, I think that's fair enough. I'm not calling to fire LaFleur just yet as I can't say with much confidence that he's the one who should be bearing the majority of the blame.

I don't know how much personnel decision-making latitude is afforded to LaFleur, though if I'm remembering correctly it was widely reported that Barry was the guy (or one of them) that MLF specifically campaigned to hire.

While LaFleur might not be able to ultimately make the decision to hire/fire Barry, I'm absolutely confident that if he had told Gute/Murphy that he absolutely did not want them to hire Barry (as he should have), they wouldn't have gone ahead and hired Barry against MLF's wishes. And I'm absolutely confident that if LaFleur went to Gute/Murphy at the end of the season/this offseason and told them he didn't want Barry back as DC (as he should have), they wouldn't tell him to suck it up and deal with it. And if LaFleur went to them at any point between now and the end of the season (as he likely should) and made it clear he wasn't going to continue working with Barry as his DC, I'm pretty sure they'd find a new one (an interim appointment, if nothing else). Gute and Murphy have more or less hitched their wagons to Love and LaFleur. Barry is insignificant in that regard big-picture. LaFleur might not hire him or make the call to fire him but I'm pretty sure he'd have a big say in whether he stays or goes, one way or another. (See also: Drayton, Maurice)

But that's a bit of an aside. Anyways, the bigger-picture issue for me is that right now it seems like there are (valid) questions being asked of all three of LaFleur, Love, and Gute, and IMO at least one of them is going to have to bear the lion's share of responsibility and accordingly be held accountable for that.

I think the short of it is basically this:

• If the coaching (LaFleur) is good enough and the team-construction (Gute) is good enough, then the problem is the QB (Love)
• If the coaching (LaFleur) is good enough and the QB (Love) is good enough, then the problem is our team-construction (Gute)
• and if the team-construction (Gute) and QB (Love) is good enough, then the problem is coaching (LaFleur)

I don't know with 100% certainty which of those it is yet, maybe some combination of all three, but there is simply no way that I can look at this season and say Yep - Gute made the right call to draft Love and he's done well in drafting and surrounding him with talent to put him in the best position to succeed AND LaFleur's doing a great job at setting up his players for the best chance of success, is getting the most out of the talent at his disposal and is doing a good job in developing Love at quarterback AND that Love is progressing nicely and showing promise and developing right on track and just needs more time/more experienced players around him. All three cannot be the case.

Like I said, I don't know which one of those bears the majority of blame at the moment but it seems like many are more or less suggesting that everything's fine and going about as expected and we just need to have faith and stay the course and if you expected any better than this then you're just spoiled and impatient and whatnot and I just think that's kind of ridiculous lol

 

[Packerbacker1996]

Same HC that went 39-9 his first 3 seasons. So as much as you want to think that MLF is a bad coach, I for one wouldn't agree.

Or maybe Rodgers held this offense togheder during those years more then we previously though and now that he 8s gone Lafleur is being exposed for what he is. A bad coach.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

• If the coaching (LaFleur) is good enough and the team-construction (Gute) is good enough, then the problem is the QB (Love)
• If the coaching (LaFleur) is good enough and the QB (Love) is good enough, then the problem is our team-construction (Gute)
• and if the team-construction (Gute) and QB (Love) is good enough, then the problem is coaching (LaFleur)

I would add a 4th scenario to these 3, for you and others to consider.

- Barry has no excuses, there is enough veteran talent on that side of the ball, that underachieving and inconsistency is no longer acceptable. He needs to go.
I know it's a worn out cliche, but as far as the offense goes, MLF isn't the one missing blocks, dropping passes, running incorrect routes and throwing bad passes. Obviously, he needs to be accountable for his players, but as you alluded to in another post, hard to put full blame on MLF, when the youth of the team is showing up a lot.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Or maybe Rodgers held this offense togheder during those years more then we previously though and now that he 8s gone Lafleur is being exposed for what he is. A bad coach.

While I agree that Rodgers made up for some deficiencies in the offense, how did he do in 2022? Losing Adams was a big blow to Rodgers and the offense. Not giving the offense quality receiving over the last 8 or so years, until the recent 2 drafts, didn't help either. The offense was neglected in both the draft and free agency for way too many years, that is finally coming back to haunt the Packers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I see a group of doomsday fans early on in their careers as noted in the thread history. Those same fans have a history in here shorter than our players they ridiculed!

We were thinking the same thing. I am amazed at all the "new" posters that are here. Don't get me wrong posters, stick around when the Packers start winning again, but some of you seem to only show up to bitch.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Upon reading this, I ran to the pre-season predictions thread, eager to point out to you that you HAD in fact predicted us to compete, only to find out you predicted a season of.....5-12, or roughly consistent with our current pace. (Sigh)

As much as I hated to predict/expect 5 wins this season, I knew it was going to be a rough year, with lots of ups and downs. Like I have said numerous times, this offense is WAY too GREEN to excel this season.

 

[OldSchool101]

The outlier here is in a few weeks we

1. mitigate our penalties.
2. Get our timing down. I’m noticing we are literally 1/4 of a second from catching a pass without being interfered. That tells me either the route needs to be more crisp or the ball needs to come out 1/4 second faster or both. That part will get better with time and experience with Receivers.

I noticed Cousins was very effective on “out” routes run toward the sideline but just 1/2 yard past the 1st marker. They must’ve thrown that play 5 times. They were exploiting our D zone coverage pretty efficiently. Many cases we had Q covering a 195lb WR. I like Q, but he’s a mismatch for a WR who runs a 4.45 40 running across the field on a crossing route. You could also tell how their TE manipulated our Zones to find pockets. He was Wide open on several plays where he wouldn’t have been in Man.

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The Vikings countered it with a bunch formation. Then sent 2 guys deeper and inside and it would leave our lone Defender covering his 1/3 but their TE would just get small and turn towards the open sideline as far as we allowed. They only needed 1 yard here and we let them run free for over 10 yards? What’s that about. On 3rd n 1 we should be expecting a shorter pass and attacking.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The outlier here is in a few weeks we

1. mitigate our penalties.
2. Get our timing down. I’m noticing we are literally 1/4 of a second from catching a pass without being interfered. That tells me either the route needs to be more crisp or the ball needs to come out 1/4 second faster or both. That part will get better with time and experience with Receivers.

I noticed Cousins was very effective on “out” routes run toward the sideline but just 1/2 yard past the 1st marker. They must’ve thrown that play 5 times. They were exploiting our D zone coverage pretty efficiently. Many cases we had Q covering a 195lb WR. I like Q, but he’s a mismatch for a WR who runs a 4.45 40 running across the field on a crossing route. You could also tell how their TE manipulated our Zones to find pockets. He was Wide open on several plays where he wouldn’t have been in Man.

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The Vikings countered it with a bunch formation. Then sent 2 guys deeper and inside and it would leave our lone Defender covering his 1/3 but their TE would just get small and turn towards the open sideline as far as we allowed. They only needed 1 yard here and we let them run free for over 10 yards? What’s that about. On 3rd n 1 we should be expecting a shorter pass and attacking.

Good observations. I agree that our receivers don't seem to be getting open enough. I don't know if that is because of them, the offense as a whole or just bad play calling. Maybe a bit of each.

 

[Sanguine camper]

On most passing plays, it appears that Love is holding the ball quite long and checking down to underneath stuff that usually is associated with close coverage. Are primary receivers not getting open like the 2015 season when Jordy was gone? I thought that MLF was great at sceming his guys open? Or is Love gun shy at throwing longer routes? Either way, Love needs to start throwing sooner in rhythm. Holding the ball didn't work for Rodgers and it isn't working for Love.

 

[milani]

Yes. My guess is now 6-11

And that maybe stretching it. MLF says " We're close. " LOL! Close to what? We may be able to beat the Bears and Carolina but beyond that?

 

[Half Empty]

I was going to steer clear of this thread today, I figured that it would be filled with Doomsday and The Sky Is Falling posts, I wasn't disappointed.

But you didn't steer clear.

If not now, after what kind of game would you expect to have those kind of posts?

 

[weeds]

I even have Green n Gold Socks which is sort of my version of Donnie Osmond Socks!

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I have NO words for this. I thought my high school girlfriend looked like Marie Osmond though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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[Pokerbrat2000]

But you didn't steer clear.

If not now, after what kind of game would you expect to have those kind of posts?

Visit the GameDay thread someday. Fans overreacting isn't a new thing. I was just as frustrated with the Packers yesterday as most. However, running in hear and screaming that everyone needs to be fired, at this point, IMO, is an overreaction.

 

[melvin dangerr]

MLF has ended the mystery, maybe his future, no coaching changes, maybe player personnel, a big maybe, the GB higher ups philosophy so far is if broke, fix it later, MAYBE…..

 

[milani]

But you didn't steer clear.

If not now, after what kind of game would you expect to have those kind of posts?

The sky fell last season. This year is just damage control.

 

[Schultz]

Yeah? Last year too?

I would add a 4th scenario to these 3, for you and others to consider.

- Barry has no excuses, there is enough veteran talent on that side of the ball, that underachieving and inconsistency is no longer acceptable. He needs to go.
I know it's a worn out cliche, but as far as the offense goes, MLF isn't the one missing blocks, dropping passes, running incorrect routes and throwing bad passes. Obviously, he needs to be accountable for his players, but as you alluded to in another post, hard to put full blame on MLF, when the youth of the team is showing up a lot.

Look we are all hoping it is the youth as you say. My fear is (and I am not there yet) is it also may be in some ways a lack of NFL talent also.

 

[Old Guy]

Jayden Reed actually outperformed a clear #23 overall drafted player. I’m not sure you realized this. Had Reed not had that 1 catch stripped by an A+ Defensive effort? He would’ve smoked Addison with over 100 yards of production and not even close. Reed still bested Addison both in yards and per catch numbers.

That said, that drop resulted in an INT, but it was clearly not on Love.
Ball placement was nearly perfect and this was not a short throw.

That is not an excuse. It’s 100% factual that Jordan Love gave a Rookie good opportunity to exceed 100 yards in receptions. I don’t see that bad like you do though.

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Ball was underthrown. Reed had him beat, but had to slow down, and backpedal and wait for it.

 

[rmontro]

Look we are all hoping it is the youth as you say. My fear is (and I am not there yet) is it also may be in some ways a lack of NFL talent also.

Or coaching, or both.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Look we are all hoping it is the youth as you say. My fear is (and I am not there yet) is it also may be in some ways a lack of NFL talent also.

Well with youth, you hopefully get development. Will Reed, Doubs, Watson and Musgrave have more talent next season, than they have right now? I think so. Same goes for Walker, Wyatt, LVN.

So yes, the Packers "lack talent" right now, but is that potential talent currently on the team or will they need to get more talent through Free Agency and the draft? For this team, both are true.

Right now, the key for this teams future is Jordan Love. Is he the real deal? I think the jury is still rightfully out on him. He has had moments of some really good play and moments of awful play. I think the physical talent is there, now its a matter of does he have the mental make-up to be a better than average QB? The next 9 games might tell us that.

For those who want to P&M after every game this season, go for it, but things aren't going to magically get better in the time frame that you are demanding (RIGHT NOW).

 

[weeds]

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LMAO!!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

LMAO!!

Clever by whomever made it, the music definitely makes it hilarious.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

While I agree that Rodgers made up for some deficiencies in the offense, how did he do in 2022? Losing Adams was a big blow to Rodgers and the offense. Not giving the offense quality receiving over the last 8 or so years, until the recent 2 drafts, didn't help either. The offense was neglected in both the draft and free agency for way too many years, that is finally coming back to haunt the Packers.

No doubt. Gute ftap big time as well. Both should be replaced.