Valdes-Scantling

[HardRightEdge]

It's a bit odd that a search does not turn up a thread in this forum on MVS. Anyhow....

There's an interesing note in here;

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-nfl-week-3-pff-refocused-green-bay-packers-27-denver-broncos-16

"De’Vante Bausby was solid in coverage in this game matched up against some of the best receivers in the NFL."

"Some" implies more than one. Notwithstanding that bold implication, I liked MVS's upside quite a bit coming into this season, my breakout pick for 2019, while not expecting anything like 1,000 yards and 10 TDs, rather a solid #2. While that's still not realized, there are encouraging signs.

For what its worth, there are elements within PFF who seem to be quite high on MVS despite their 63.8 grade through three weeks.

From last year:

https://clutchpoints.com/packers-ne...-three-in-the-nfl-in-intriguing-stat-in-2018/

There was one of those PFF subjective notes prior to week 3 which I can't find at the moment saying that MVS should not be abandoned as a fantasy play with good things on the way.

Now, they are getting a little gushy with this headline:

https://heavy.com/sports/2019/09/valdes-scantling-packers-fantasy-week-4/

What I see is long speed, which Rodgers often underthew and overthrew last season. Nailed it this time. Separation. Good hands. I noticed some bellyaching in these pages over contested balls in the Vikings game. Really? "Dud" a guy for having the ball knocked out of his hands in tight coverage against the sidelines? Sheesh.

Per Rodgers, to paraphrase, "last year he didn't know what he was doing," kinda expected coming out of South Forida (or just college football in general as things go with rookie WRs). The more he goes where he's expected to be the more he'll see the ball.

There's a reason the Packers walked through free agency and the draft without spending capital at the position, penning in MVS for the perimenter. You are starting to see why in case you hadn't noticed already. His ceiling is TBD, but there should be more upside from here. For now, we should at least conclude that having MVS as the #2 beats the h*ll out of signing Antonio Brown.

 

[XPack]

Even in last interview AR highlighted his 4.3 speed. Provided he could run his routes well and make some moves to get seperation he'd be a defence stretching threat.

He suffers as our overall attack lacks balance of not having a proper TE. Once we have Tonyan short passes down the middle, I suspect MVS production will shoot up.

 

[gbgary]

validate ******** is a straight ahead speed guy. a deep threat. no wonder rodgers likes him . i jest...but every team needs one. if he could also become a route runner then we'd have something.

 

[Mondio]

I think he can be more than what he is. But to be more than just a speed guy and really a #3 target, he needs to be able to start catching balls when a defender has a hand in there to become something more than just an ordinary receiver that happens to be fast.

he doesn't need to catch all of them and it's not all a failure when he doesn't, but he's caught some nice passes, he's double clutched a couple and he's had some knocked away. there was another one against Broncos this week. Didn't catch the ball cleanly, and instead of putting it away it was knocked away.

He can learn it yet, there's time. I'm making no declarations, but for me, to be that next guy behind Adams and be good at it, he has to start making more of those catches. Catch the ball cleanly and put it away from the defender. Sure some are going to get knocked out, it happens to everyone. I just haven't seen him make one like that where it's contested and he makes it his.

 

[PikeBadger]

I don’t expect any receiver picked in the 4th round or later to be a finished product after the 3rd game of their second season. That’s totally unrealistic expectations imo and we all know it took Nelson and Adams who were 2nd rounders two full seasons before they became better than average receivers in the league. I think Scantling is progressing just fine. Hoping that St. Brown can comeback soon and contribute as well.

 

[OldSchool101]

He’s been a pleasant surprise, likely the best of 3 WR taken by us in the draft. He plays like a 3rd rounder and he cancelled out the miss there with Jmon Moore being flat.

I would like to see a couple more deep throws to him in the coming weeks, one of his strengths seems to be tracking the long ball, with his speed he can make up a couple yards on a slight overthrow.

By testing him more we accomplish several things,
1. we see his level of progression. He spent additional time training with Randy Moss, it’s time to to show us what he taught him.
2. We also make it known to Defenses that they can’t play a single high, unless they want to occasionally suffer.

3. Also, many deep throws often end in D pass interference calls so there’s an occasional field tilter. This seems to happen more frequently when the DB realizes he’s beat by raw speed. That’s not unlikely covering a guy who runs a 4.37 X 40 and 6.85 X
3-Cone and it translates in pads with him.

MVS would’ve flat out burned Alexander (4.38) on a deep ball one on ones.. and the only reason it wasn’t caught is an under-thrown pass. Even J’aire was not immune to his translated speed. Either Jaire was running at 4.45 or MVS was running at 4.30 but it was noticeable separation. I’d bring in Marcedes inline and our FB or Jamaal to cover the middle and pinch together the OL and then set sail for the Isle of Red Zone

 

[HardRightEdge]

...then set sail for the Isle of Red Zone

Lots of geography today: islands, peninsulas, atols, archipelagos, and now just plain isles.

The main thing in this moment is to get out of 3rd. down conversion Alcatraz. OK, so Alcatraz is now a tourist attraction but it is an island! Make it the Florence Supermax if we must.

Lets see if MVS can help some with that. The problem at the moment is moving the chains.

 

[tynimiller]

I think Scantling is progressing just fine. Hoping that St. Brown can comeback soon and contribute as well.

St. Brown is a guy I have the most faith in, but has a much lower ceiling than MVS. He isn't a dude that has the crazy raw skillset MVS has, but his football IQ is much higher and polished. St. Brown strikes me as a guy that will be the perfect #3 or #4 WR on a team that is steady and true...I really am hoping to see him back out someday for us.

Honestly, I think some could argue MVS is progressing at the same rate, if not possibly faster than Davante did. I do not believe he will become an Adams, but his statlines illustrate strong similarities.

 

[Stanger37]

Eagles typically get beat by the #2 guy.

Week 1 was McLaurin. 5-125 TD
Week 2 was Ridley. 8-105 TD
Week 3 was Jones Jr. 6-101 TD

This could be the breakout MVS week we've been waiting for.

 

[greengold]

Yep. MVS comes to life as a legit #2WR tonight. I think our entire O comes around to show what they are capable of v. PHI.

 

[gbgary]

Eagles typically get beat by the #2 guy.

Week 1 was McLaurin. 5-125 TD
Week 2 was Ridley. 8-105 TD
Week 3 was Jones Jr. 6-101 TD

This could be the breakout MVS week we've been waiting for.

problem is we don't have a real #2. we've got 3's and 4's rotating into the 2 slot (was going to say 2 hole but thought better of it (but since i just said that what's the difference lol).

 

[Mondio]

St. Brown is a guy I have the most faith in, but has a much lower ceiling than MVS. He isn't a dude that has the crazy raw skillset MVS has, but his football IQ is much higher and polished. St. Brown strikes me as a guy that will be the perfect #3 or #4 WR on a team that is steady and true...I really am hoping to see him back out someday for us.

Honestly, I think some could argue MVS is progressing at the same rate, if not possibly faster than Davante did. I do not believe he will become an Adams, but his statlines illustrate strong similarities.

It does take time to develop, but it's just different for me. He has a good skill set, but even has guys like Randall and Jordy, Devante, were developing, they made catches that made me say, "nice catch". They had really good pass catchers in front of them and they were given time to learn the offense and had limited opportunities that i think helped them long term. Kind of like what we can do with Gary right now at OLB. and even with him, you can see the flashes.

MVS has his flashes, he's fast, he has a very good skill set and unlike that Janis guy, he can run routes too. But I don't want to keep saying, oh, that would have been a tough catch. I want to jump and say, "nice ****ing catch". If he can start doing that this offense will take off in a big way.

 

[greengold]

Honestly, I think our WR group is stacked with talent. Will we see Kumerow? Shepherd? Lazard? Will Geronimo have a big game for a change? Will Adams get a couple of TDs? MVS?

I get lost in this 2, 3 stuff. Just line em up and catchthefrickinball! CTFB.

 

[tynimiller]

It does take time to develop, but it's just different for me. He has a good skill set, but even has guys like Randall and Jordy, Devante, were developing, they made catches that made me say, "nice catch". They had really good pass catchers in front of them and they were given time to learn the offense and had limited opportunities that i think helped them long term. Kind of like what we can do with Gary right now at OLB. and even with him, you can see the flashes.

MVS has his flashes, he's fast, he has a very good skill set and unlike that Janis guy, he can run routes too. But I don't want to keep saying, oh, that would have been a tough catch. I want to jump and say, "nice ******* catch". If he can start doing that this offense will take off in a big way.

Don't disagree at all.

 

[sschind]

validate ******** is a straight ahead speed guy. a deep threat. no wonder rodgers likes him . i jest...but every team needs one. if he could also become a route runner then we'd have something.

You got a like for the name but it takes too long to type. I'll stick with MVS or maybe just VS to save time.

 

[sschind]

Honestly, I think our WR group is stacked with talent. Will we see Kumerow? Shepherd? Lazard? Will Geronimo have a big game for a change? Will Adams get a couple of TDs? MVS?

I get lost in this 2, 3 stuff. Just line em up and catchthefrickinball! CTFB.

That's the problem though, they haven't been CTFB. While I don't share all of Poker's doom and gloom I certainly understand his concern. There is talent and there is the ability to be a good WR in the NFL. Our guys have talent for sure but they haven't shown they can be the latter.

I think they can be but that may be more due to the fact I prefer to look at things optimistically rather than anything I have seen them do on a consistent basis. I hope MVS goes off tonight. 160 yards and 3 TDs

 

[Mavster]

Might as well start tonight with a PA bomb to MVS.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

I am opting to start MVS tonight for my fantasy team. Please let him deliver. You all are making me feel hopeful that he will lol

 

[AmishMafia]

That's the problem though, they haven't been CTFB. While I don't share all of Poker's doom and gloom I certainly understand his concern. There is talent and there is the ability to be a good WR in the NFL. Our guys have talent for sure but they haven't shown they can be the latter.

I think they can be but that may be more due to the fact I prefer to look at things optimistically rather than anything I have seen them do on a consistent basis. I hope MVS goes off tonight. 160 yards and 3 TDs

I dont think they have been given much of a chance to CTFB though. There have been a few drops, but they have not had much to work with. They all looked very good in preseason. Excellent. Not sure why it hasnt worked yet in the regular season is a bit of a mystery. But it is not because they are lacking talent.

What is bizarre is that some posters upset we dont have more talent at the WR position are some of the same who were praising the talent of these same guys a few months ago.

It has to be QB play, coaching, game planning, regular season nerves for WRs, or higher level of competition. I dont think its the LOC, im sure our DBs were up to the task of working the WRs out. I think its some combination of the first 4 with most of the issue with our QB. I am confident he is going to get more comfortable with the system and do better.

 

[Dantés]

MVS is currently on pace for 70 receptions, 900 yards, and 5 touchdowns after playing the Bears, Vikings, and Broncos.

For a 2nd year player picked in the 5th round, that's a home run. To spend three picks in the 4th, 5th, and 6th round and get one such player back is great draft production.

Yes, he dropped a couple balls last week. He was also responsible for the most important offensive play of the day. And what his speed is doing and will do for this offense is absolutely critical.

The #2, #3, #4 thing is stupid. Receiving corps are about roles. The Packers have one missing-- the underneath/YAC threat. Look at the Rams, for an example in 2018:

• Cooper Kupp: 8 receptions, 71 yards, .75 TD per game
• Robert Woods: 5.3 receptions, 76 yards, .4 TD per game
• Brandin Cooks: 5 receptions, 75 yards, .3 TD per game

Were any of them a clear, defined "#1" or "#2" or "#3"? No.

Cooks filled the role of deep threat (MVS), Woods filled the role of intermediate threat (Adams), and Kupp filled the role of underneath threat (???). This is just generally speaking-- of course McVay does not pigeon-hole them into these roles exclusively.

From a personnel perspective, the problem with the Packers isn't the lack of a "#2," it's the lack of an underneath threat. Those players, as Kupp illustrates better than anyone, are great at converting 3rd downs and extending drives. The Packers have had a serious problem converting on 3rd down.

What's more, I would continue to argue that the biggest problem for this offense is not personnel, but synchronicity. We are seeing a pattern emerge: the offense comes out hot with plays that have been scripted and practiced more intentionally, but then falter when they use up their script and have to simply run the offense. They aren't there yet. Hopefully we see progress tonight.

 

[Dantés]

To further illustrate the points above, I just saw these stats:

1st in 3rd down targets: 13, Cooper Kupp
1st in 3rd down receptions: 10, Cooper Kupp
1st in 3rd down conversions: 9, Cooper Kupp

Personnel-wise, that is the missing role. Call is a 2, 3, 4, or 7B... that's irrelevant. Someone who can uncover quickly, has reliable hands, and gains YAC.

 

[Mavster]

MVS is currently on pace for 70 receptions, 900 yards, and 5 touchdowns after playing the Bears, Vikings, and Broncos.

For a 2nd year player picked in the 5th round, that's a home run. To spend three picks in the 4th, 5th, and 6th round and get one such player back is great draft production.

Yes, he dropped a couple balls last week. He was also responsible for the most important offensive play of the day. And what his speed is doing and will do for this offense is absolutely critical.

The #2, #3, #4 thing is stupid. Receiving corps are about roles. The Packers have one missing-- the underneath/YAC threat. Look at the Rams, for an example in 2018:

• Cooper Kupp: 8 receptions, 71 yards, .75 TD per game
• Robert Woods: 5.3 receptions, 76 yards, .4 TD per game
• Brandin Cooks: 5 receptions, 75 yards, .3 TD per game

Were any of them a clear, defined "#1" or "#2" or "#3"? No.

Cooks filled the role of deep threat (MVS), Woods filled the role of intermediate threat (Adams), and Kupp filled the role of underneath threat (???). This is just generally speaking-- of course McVay does not pigeon-hole them into these roles exclusively.

From a personnel perspective, the problem with the Packers isn't the lack of a "#2," it's the lack of an underneath threat. Those players, as Kupp illustrates better than anyone, are great at converting 3rd downs and extending drives. The Packers have had a serious problem converting on 3rd down.

What's more, I would continue to argue that the biggest problem for this offense is not personnel, but synchronicity. We are seeing a pattern emerge: the offense comes out hot with plays that have been scripted and practiced more intentionally, but then falter when they use up their script and have to simply run the offense. They aren't there yet. Hopefully we see progress tonight.

I agree with most of that but using 'on pace stats' after 3 games doesn't mean much.

 

[Dantés]

I agree with most of that but using 'on pace stats' after 3 games doesn't mean much.

13 for 170 and touchdowns against the Bears, Vikings, and Broncos means something.

 

[gbgary]

I am opting to start MVS tonight for my fantasy team. Please let him deliver. You all are making me feel hopeful that he will lol

i'm a fantasy football numbnut but i even know you shouldn't play anyone in the Packers O right now...except maybe aaron jones as he seems to score td's. am i wrong?

 

[swhitset]

I agree with most of that but using 'on pace stats' after 3 games doesn't mean much.

It doesn’t say anything about how his year will finish... but it definitely puts those 3 games into perspective when the conventional wisdom has been that he was ineffective.