The offense must run through Jones and Dillon

[Pokerbrat2000]

I watched Braelan Allen play a couple of games and was thinking about past Badger RBs while doing so. And with the admittedly little I saw of him; I did not get the impression that he would translate into a NFL RB. I don't pretend to know this guy. But I was hoping for a more elusive RB. If he comes out and plays like Jonathon Taylor...but that seems a reach. jmo

Depending on the "couple of games" you saw him play, I would have to ask a few questions. What games, was he playing injured (he did this quite a bit) and would you consider what you saw to be a good sample size?

I'm not a Pro Scout, but I don't miss a Badger Football game. I think if you look at his entire body of work, he has great NFL potential. He has the size, instincts, power and ability to run downhill, that could make him a feature back in the right offense. BTW, I debated with a few posters on here about Jonathan Allen before he was drafted, he has turned out to be ok.

"Highlight Reels" aren't the end all be all, since they are just that, but I think it gives you a taste of what the kid can do.

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[Heyjoe4]

Most definitely his youth and low mileage is a big plus. Also, this kid is bright, articulate and eager to learn. As you mentioned he was recruited as a S/LB and when The Badgers coaching staff saw just how good of a RB he could be, he quickly stepped into the role and blew up the Big Ten. He has a ton of untapped potential in my opinion. Blocking and receiving is not something he was asked to do a whole lot of at Wisconsin, so while scouts will grade him negatively on both, give him time and coaching. While he doesn't have top end speed, neither does Aaron Jones or a lot of successful RB's in the NFL. Honestly, I will trade top end speed for a guy that can punish defenders and pickup those extra yards after contact.

My guess is this. Allen is going to go through the interview process and turn a lot of heads. As will he do at the combine. GM's will look at the success that a guy like Jonathan Taylor has had in Indy and it might push Allen up into the 2nd round.

Some nice info and an interview with him, in this article:

Wisconsin's Braelon Allen took a distinctive journey to become an RB | FOX Sports

Braelon Allen joins Matt Leinart to discuss his unique recruiting process and how he’s developed his talents in Wisconsin.

www.foxsports.com

The last time GB passed up a Badger, well at least a top pick, was taking Kevin King with TJ Watt available. Ouch.

Maybe the devil you know........ Well that's not a great example but if he can run a 4.4 40 at that weight, maybe he does have a little speed demon in him. He certainly has the size to "waltz" through arm tackles and be a problem for any tackler.

I don't see him going in round 2 though. If Gluten decides to use a round 2 pick on a RB, there are probably better candidates. Allen doesn't have a lot of name recognition and is flying a little low, IMO. Depending on how the draft falls, maybe get him in round 3 or beyond. Again, I just don't see him as a round 2 talent. Of course, I didn't complain when King was taken either......

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have subscriptions that give 2-3 free articles a month. I forget that when I link to some of their stuff myself because I don't see it.

I run through a VPN, which can "put me in" the Netherlands, Japan, U.S or just about any place on the earth. So I run into subscription sites, as well as a lot of articles written in other languages. Typically, if an article won't open (no subscription) and you Google its title, you will find a lot of free sources of that article.

 

[OldSchool101]

What a coincidence. I spent a few hours last night going through potential RB’s in that top 125 area. While I’ve made it known Jonathon Brooks is my clear favorite, Braelon Allen really stuck out to me (also Bucky Irving is just fun to watch) Now admittedly my research was limited. I looked at 3 scouting reports for that top 6-7 and watched some highlight tape. Then I analyze their Stats using consideration for their Level of competition. It’s a novice interpretation most part using my gut and past RB I’ve watched coming into the Pros

I believe Allen is a step up from Dillon from a Rushing standpoint (although I think Dillon is possibly a more complete RB in blocking/catching/run as a whole. Some of that will change with experience though.
Allen is like Dillon with 4.4 speed instead of 4.5 speed. That’s a huge difference at the NFL level. Allen is also better at lateral mobility and not such a FB style RB like Dillon is (rumbling North/South) He’s actually an ideal replacement for AJ Dillon as our current RB2 IF Dillon chases $$ elsewhere.

Imo, Braelon would do a better job as a “projected” future RB1 given time once Jones is gone.

Like Dillon (2nd Round) Allen is probably a slight reach at #58 overall, but he’s 95% gone at #88 overall so I’m not sure how to handle that part. Considering it’s a thin RB class at the top? I’d actually feel ok anywhere starting #58 on back. That gives us 2 very capable RB’s and keeps the Fond Du Lac crowd happy. Braelon can Kick a Poo and Win a Bego. I’d love to see the look on his families face if he gets drafted by the Packers

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

They said. I believe Allen is a slight step up from Dillon from a Rushing standpoint

I am going to come off as a homer, but I think Allen offers up a lot more potential then what we have seen out of Dillon. Don't get me wrong, I actually like Dillon and I think some are over reacting to his 2023 season, but he is just a #2 running back. Braelon Allen on the other hand, I believe could potentially be a productive starter in the NFL.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I am going to come off as a homer, but I think Allen offers up a lot more potential then what we have seen out of Dillon. Don't get me wrong, I actually like Dillon and I think some are over reacting to his 2023 season, but he is just a #2 running back. Braelon Allen on the other hand, I believe could potentially be a productive starter in the NFL.

Agreed. If we're talking about Allen replacing Dillon, well I like that move. I mean look at the guy's legs. And he has speed.

Receiving and blocking can be taught, sometimes...... I would think blocking is a pretty easy call. Receiving? That would take time.

And if a pick makes sense or you think it makes sense, that's not a "homer" call. I wish there had been a homer on draft day when TJ Watt was available. That's not completely fair. Watt just turned his game way, way up in the NFL. That kind of talent wasn't apparent from his days at WI, well, not to me.

 

[gopkrs]

Depending on the "couple of games" you saw him play, I would have to ask a few questions. What games, was he playing injured (he did this quite a bit) and would you consider what you saw to be a good sample size?

I'm not a Pro Scout, but I don't miss a Badger Football game. I think if you look at his entire body of work, he has great NFL potential. He has the size, instincts, power and ability to run downhill, that could make him a feature back in the right offense. BTW, I debated with a few posters on here about Jonathan Allen before he was drafted, he has turned out to be ok.

"Highlight Reels" aren't the end all be all, since they are just that, but I think it gives you a taste of what the kid can do.

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Yes, he looks good. A lot of that competition was not real tough though. He may be a little too much like Dillon for me. Better but... I'll certainly let our experts on draft day make their choice. I'd prefer a top Inside Linebacker like the guy from Michigan though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Agreed. If we're talking about Allen replacing Dillon, well I like that move. I mean look at the guy's legs. And he has speed.

Receiving and blocking can be taught, sometimes...... I would think blocking is a pretty easy call. Receiving? That would take time.

And if a pick makes sense or you think it makes sense, that's not a "homer" call. I wish there had been a homer on draft day when TJ Watt was available. That's not completely fair. Watt just turned his game way, way up in the NFL. That kind of talent wasn't apparent from his days at WI, well, not to me.

I don't think I was alone with wanting the Packers to draft TJ Watt. He was right there for the taking at #29, I was ecstatic thinking that TT would no doubt select him. I think I broke something when it was announced that TT had traded out of the first round and the Steelers grabbed TJ with the 30th pick.

Anyway, back to Braelon Allen. First, he doesn't have great speed, but kind of like Aaron Jones, he has enough to hit the holes and pick up a lot of yards B4 and after contact. Second, his stock might be down a bit, due to the 2023 season that the Badgers new coaching staff and offense struggled with due to the coaching transition. Finally, Scouts saying he can't catch the ball aren't giving him a fair shake. He wasn't targeted a whole lot and on his 31 targets this season, he caught 28. I would also point to the fact that he never had a decent QB throwing to him, so that doesn't help.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes, he looks good. A lot of that competition was not real tough though.

LOL, I knew that was coming, because it was the same thing people said about Jonathan Taylor, that and "His OL is great, who can't run behind them?" I 100% disagree with anyone that infers that Allen only played well against weak non-conference teams, go look at his game stats.

First, the BIG10 is pretty tough when it comes to competition. Second, look at some of his games against Ohio State, both games the Buckeyes were the #3 ranked team in the country when they met.

9/24/22: 23 carries for 165 yards (Badgers lost 52-21)

10/28/23: Only 10 carries but 50 yards. Allen left the game in the 2nd Q with a lower leg injury. Something which he was playing with most of the season.

So many Big10 games where this kid showed up and in a big way. So no, I don't buy the argument "he can't do it against good players."

 

[Pkrjones]

I remember in the 80s, I used to carry a small notebook and a pen in my shirt pocket, and whenever something came up that I was curious about, I'd make a note of it. And then I went to the library a couple of times a week after work and looked all those things up.

I'm 66, and my wife is 45. We grew up in two totally different worlds. She was programming computers at age 6, in school and at home on one of the original Macintoshes. One of her degrees is in computer science. She can't even begin to relate to the stories I tell her about what I did in school; it's like my grandfather telling me about riding his horse to school.

I'm 59, an engineer with Comp. Science minor. Freshman year of college ('82) spent half my life in the computer "lab" for damn Fortran class...each line of code was 1 punch card. 30 card punch machines for about 100 users at any given time. Run thru main processor, had to wait a half hour for printout, & God-forbid a card was out of sequence & had to re-run! Sophomore year got a real mainframe network.

 

[Voyageur]

I look back to when I went back to school to finish up getting my Engineering degree. When I left school, the first time, I was using a slide rule for mathematical equations. When I went back to school, I looked all over for a slide rule, and couldn't find one. I was frustrated. Then, when I finally talked to someone who was going to be one of my Professors, he told me to invested in a Texas Instruments hand held calculator. He suggested I should get the one that you could commit engineering math equations to it with tapes you inserted, to save myself the work. I was in awe! Went down and spent quite a lot of money to get one.

After starting, I was introduced to the personal computers. At that time they were 286s. I immediately took to it, and moved up into the 386s the moment they came out. In fact, I had a guy build a 386 for me, and I bought AutoCad, and never looked back. I think back about how things have changed. Amazing!

 

[SudsMcBucky]

I just read a couple of scouting reports on him the other day, and I'm intrigued by the guy. His nickname is "Man Child"; he was recruited by the Badgers as a linebacker. 6'2", 245, 4.40 forty, 6.91 3-cone, but a 4.6 20-yard shuttle... avergaed 6.8 runs per carry as a freshman, tied for 1st in the country.

Powerful enough to move the pile when running between the guards, explosive enough to bust tackles, fast enough to go the distance anytime once he punches through the line. Compares closely to Jonathan Taylor.

Positives included -

- decisive, good vision. sees his hole and hits it, no wasted time
- explodes out of the backfield, his 10 yard split time is just 1.49 seconds
- freakish physical frame; very powerful and difficult to bring down; just wreaks havoc on defensive backs. very difficult to bring down solo, and churns his legs powerfully through contact
- excellent balance, surprisingly graceful and flexible for someone that size
- reliable hands, good checkdown option

Negatives included -

- poor route runner, outside of basic checkdowns. can catch, but not a threat to get open
- poor pass protection
- poor agility; doesn't make many people miss. relies instead on making them pay for hitting him.
- not very quick coming off the ball, start and stop in the backfield is slow, which gives the D-line more time to sniff out the play and kill it before it develops
- has no "second gear", won't break away from many pursuers. His top end is good, but once he hits it, that's it
- very stiff hips, limiting his ability to cut and dance away from a hit

He's raw in a few key areas, but the thing is, he just turned 20 2 weeks ago. He will start his rookie season in the NFL as a 20 year old kid, quite likely the youngest player in the league. What I like about that is that an NFL program might coach him up to a whole nother level, plus, he has almost no wear and tear on his body.

If Green Bay likes him, I wouldn't mind seeing him in the 3rd. Maybe even our first 3rd. As punishing a runner as he is, he's pretty one-dimensional. But I think he might make a great replacememnt for AJ (sorry, AJ, I do love you), and I can't stop picturing him wearing a Packer jersey and hammering the Niner D-line in the divisional round.

Tell me you've never seen both JT and Braelon Allen play FB at Wisconsin without telling me you've never seen both of them play. They are nowhere close to a comp. First and foremost, JT is WAY faster than BA. Just a much higher top gear and gets there faster. BA is much bigger than JT. I would say about 20 pounds or so.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I look back to when I went back to school to finish up getting my Engineering degree. When I left school, the first time, I was using a slide rule for mathematical equations. When I went back to school, I looked all over for a slide rule, and couldn't find one. I was frustrated. Then, when I finally talked to someone who was going to be one of my Professors, he told me to invested in a Texas Instruments hand held calculator. He suggested I should get the one that you could commit engineering math equations to it with tapes you inserted, to save myself the work. I was in awe! Went down and spent quite a lot of money to get one.

After starting, I was introduced to the personal computers. At that time they were 286s. I immediately took to it, and moved up into the 386s the moment they came out. In fact, I had a guy build a 386 for me, and I bought AutoCad, and never looked back. I think back about how things have changed. Amazing!

I remember spending a small fortune on an HP12C Calculator when I enrolled at the UW. I still use that same calculator today and see many of them in the financial world. Hard to believe that a technology that was rolled out in the 80's, is not only still being sold today, but widely used by many.

 

[gopkrs]

I remember going into a small business one time in the 80s and the guy had 4 or 5 computers. The ones with the green screens. First time I'd seen it. So slow. But he was right...eventually.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Tell me you've never seen both JT and Braelon Allen play FB at Wisconsin without telling me you've never seen both of them play. They are nowhere close to a comp. First and foremost, JT is WAY faster than BA. Just a much higher top gear and gets there faster. BA is much bigger than JT. I would say about 20 pounds or so.

I'll let -13 defend his own post, but for me the 2 backs are very different, but in some ways the same.

JT is a lot faster for sure. I think he had the fastest 40 time for a RB at his combine. Something like a 4.39 and Allen is reported to run at around 4.4. I don't see Allen's "lack of speed" as a big issue, he makes up for it with what he can do at the LOS and yards after contact.

They have completely different bodies. JT is a compact, muscular 5'10" 225lb firecracker. Whereas BA is a bruising 6'2" 245 lb keg of dynamite. However, both have very strong lower and upper bodies and can break tackles.

JT is much more shifty and makes his hay hitting holes and avoiding tackles. Allen makes his hay running over defenders and bouncing off tackles.

One area they both have been criticized about is ball control. Taylor lost 15 of 18 fumbles in 41 college games. Allen has only lost 5 of 9 fumbles in 35 games, but people have attached the "fumbles a lot" to him.

In his 4 years at Indy, Taylor has lost 6 of 9 fumbles. Personally, I don't view that as an "issue", nor would I at this point for Allen.

I actually think both were/are underrated, although Indy might have shocked some when they took JT early (#41) in the 2nd round. Has worked out nicely for them. Allen played behind a pretty crappy WI. offensive line this year and was still very productive when healthy. I would love to see him in Green and Gold.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I remember going into a small business one time in the 80s and the guy had 4 or 5 computers. The ones with the green screens. First time I'd seen it. So slow. But he was right...eventually.

I remember buying my first color monitor (VGA). The guy who sold me on it, showed me nude pictures of women to "show off" the color. Jeeesh, who was noticing the color?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don't think I was alone with wanting the Packers to draft TJ Watt. He was right there for the taking at #29, I was ecstatic thinking that TT would no doubt select him. I think I broke something when it was announced that TT had traded out of the first round and the Steelers grabbed TJ with the 30th pick.

Anyway, back to Braelon Allen. First, he doesn't have great speed, but kind of like Aaron Jones, he has enough to hit the holes and pick up a lot of yards B4 and after contact. Second, his stock might be down a bit, due to the 2023 season that the Badgers new coaching staff and offense struggled with due to the coaching transition. Finally, Scouts saying he can't catch the ball aren't giving him a fair shake. He wasn't targeted a whole lot and on his 31 targets this season, he caught 28. I would also point to the fact that he never had a decent QB throwing to him, so that doesn't help.

Thanks (sort of) for reminding me that TT passed on TJW and traded out of round one to take King. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to the Badgers that year to realize how good he was. But his brother alone should have drawn some attention to the name.

And if Allen caught 28 of 31 passes, well that puts that to rest. So maybe he does get overlooked and the Packers can get him in round 3 or 4. And he looks a lot faster than Dillon.

Wherever they take a RB, it has to be with one of picks 2, 3, 4 or 5

 

[Thirteen Below]

My guess is this. Allen is going to go through the interview process and turn a lot of heads. As will he do at the combine. GM's will look at the success that a guy like Jonathan Taylor has had in Indy and it might push Allen up into the 2nd round.

First off, thanks for that link. I hadn't seen that. That's some good information there; yeah, he really does speak like a bright kid, and skipping a year in high school says a lot too. That's encouraging, because two of the scouting reports I read said he had difficulty mastering the route tree. But if he's that smart, that may be something he can pick up. And, as you say, the same with the blocking. It sure sounds like he's not afraid of contact, so picking up some technique from an NFL coaching staff could help a lot. At least one of the scouting reports I read said that he needs to learn to keep his pad level down (remember Mike McCarthy grumbling about that in almost every post-game presser?), so as you say, that's correctable.

He's a raw prospect (always a bit risky for a kid to declare so young), and most teams will probably be cautious about him. But he's got enough going on that I can easily imagine some team taking a flyer on him in the 2nd. Not sure whether I want it to be us, but if we do, I'm willing to trust the brain trust's judgment. We have the luxury of a lot of early picks; we can afford a long shot better than most other teams can.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Typically, if an article won't open (no subscription) and you Google its title, you will find a lot of free sources of that article.

Or, the first few sentences of the article will also pull up a lot of hits. Especially if it's a couple of days old.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Tell me you've never seen both JT and Braelon Allen play FB at Wisconsin without telling me you've never seen both of them play. They are nowhere close to a comp. First and foremost, JT is WAY faster than BA. Just a much higher top gear and gets there faster. BA is much bigger than JT. I would say about 20 pounds or so.

It wouldn't be my comparison, because I don't get to see many Badger games since i left Wisconsin. I was summarizing the consensus of about 4 (maybe 5) scouting reports from draft sites, in which the comparison was made by at least 2 sites. I haven't seen enough of Allen to make that comparison, and in fact I typically don't put a lot of stock in comparisons like that - every player is unique if you look at him closely enough. And I think that's especially true with backs like Allen - how many 20-year old 245 pound 4.4 backs are there to compare him to?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Thanks (sort of) for reminding me that TT passed on TJW and traded out of round one to take King. I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to the Badgers that year to realize how good he was. But his brother alone should have drawn some attention to the name.

Much like JJ, TJ just kept getting better and better. I think most scouts were aware of his talent, just not the fact that he hadn't even come close to his ceiling in college ball. I think that could be the case for a lot of players, but sadly, some of them get the big check and coast. If I was a scout, a big aspect of my evaluation would be looking at what the kid did off the field from year to year. How much of what he did was mandatory and how much was self motivated voluntary.

I've mentioned it a few times, but over the years my job in Student housing has provide me with pretty close contact to a lot of athletes. People would be amazed to see what some of these athletes are like off the field/court/ice rink/track, etc....both good and bad. So when I see one fail, that I have had contact with, usually it is no surprise. On the good side, I have dealt with some wonderful "kids" and their maturity and readiness to become adults, usually shines when they leave school.

 

[OldSchool101]

I look back to when I went back to school to finish up getting my Engineering degree. When I left school, the first time, I was using a slide rule for mathematical equations. When I went back to school, I looked all over for a slide rule, and couldn't find one. I was frustrated. Then, when I finally talked to someone who was going to be one of my Professors, he told me to invested in a Texas Instruments hand held calculator. He suggested I should get the one that you could commit engineering math equations to it with tapes you inserted, to save myself the work. I was in awe! Went down and spent quite a lot of money to get one.

After starting, I was introduced to the personal computers. At that time they were 286s. I immediately took to it, and moved up into the 386s the moment they came out. In fact, I had a guy build a 386 for me, and I bought AutoCad, and never looked back. I think back about how things have changed. Amazing!

I sold those Scientific Calculators. Then I sold Electronic Typewriters, Word Processors then the 8086, 286,386..etc.. Pentium.. etc.
I started with Circuit City later 80’s into mid 90’s but still sold Computers until 1997? I think I remember you now!

Anyway I’d be good with Braelon. He’s one of my Top 3 RB’s on my wish list. I’m also fine if Dillon stays on a cheaper deal, that pushes RB outside Day2 for me. I’d still draft one in that 125-200 area regardless.

 

[Voyageur]

I sold those Scientific Calculators. Then I sold Electronic Typewriters, Word Processors then the 8086, 286,386..etc.. Pentium.. etc.
I started with Circuit City later 80’s into mid 90’s but still sold Computers until 1997? I think I remember you now!

Anyway I’d be good with Braelon. He’s one of my Top 3 RB’s on my wish list. I’m also fine if Dillon stays on a cheaper deal, that pushes RB outside Day2 for me. I’d still draft one in that 125-200 area regardless.

Braelon still there in the 4th, I'd probably jump on it. I don't think I'd do it earlier. There's probably a half dozen RBs that will be good enough to go in top 125 I'm guessing.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Braelon still there in the 4th, I'd probably jump on it. I don't think I'd do it earlier. There's probably a half dozen RBs that will be good enough to go in top 125 I'm guessing.

I've felt for some time that there are roughly a half dozen RBs (at least 5, possibly as many as 8) that I'd be very happy to come away with, and some of them will certainly be available in the 3rd Round. Unless Gutekunst sees something in one or two particular individuals that blows him away, I'm comfortable waiting until the 3rd.

I'm trying not to get too attached to any of them, but Allen is one I can't help liking a lot. I hope he's still there at a reasonable price point, but if Gute is so blown away that he feels called to take him with a late 2nd, I'd be a little uncomfortable with it, but I'd trust his judgment.

 

[Voyageur]

I've felt for some time that there are roughly a half dozen RBs (at least 5, possibly as many as 8) that I'd be very happy to come away with, and some of them will certainly be available in the 3rd Round. Unless Gutekunst sees something in one or two particular individuals that blows him away, I'm comfortable waiting until the 3rd.

I'm trying not to get too attached to any of them, but Allen is one I can't help liking a lot. I hope he's still there at a reasonable price point, but if Gute is so blown away that he feels called to take him with a late 2nd, I'd be a little uncomfortable with it, but I'd trust his judgment.

Despite all the discussions about how bad Gute is at judging talent, I'm not going to get on that bandwagon either. How can you argue at the picks he's made when the majority of them are the future of the team, and doing quite well? Love, Gary, our WR corps, two TEs, and emerging offensive linemen that people thought were wasted picks. Then there's what were marginally desired players like Valentine and Ballentine, who came through well enough to be considered for field time next year, if only as subs?

If I could have the pick of the litter, I'd take Shipley to be honest. He's got a motor like Isiah Pacheco in KC. He was solid at Clemson. The only thing that made his name less of a household name is that they didn't have as great a season as a team to get him that notoriety.

You're right about being as many as 8. It's a deep draft in that area this year.