The Marcedes Lewis discussion

[AKCheese]

I’m sure there will be all sorts of people butt hurt if somebody else wears #87 in the near future.... friggin junior high crap

 

[PackAttack12]

I don’t think you quite understood the conversation with that reply, but I’m glad you at least saw the major point.

You seemed to be insinuating that maybe the poster you were quoting is correct that he hasn't declined and would match or surpass his best season as a pro. I was simply saying that just because your numbers aren't quite what they used to be doesn't mean that you have declined. Team, philosophy, role, quarterback, etc all play a role in your production level.

I most certainly understood the conversation, but IMO you made a lousy point to mention Graham's production. I agree he's declined slightly, but it's lazy to reference his best season to support your argument.

This will be the first time Graham has been featured in an elite offense since 2014. I'm interested to see what he provides.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You seemed to be insinuating that maybe the poster you were quoting is correct that he hasn't declined and would match or surpass his best season as a pro. I was simply saying that just because your numbers aren't quite what they used to be doesn't mean that you have declined. Team, philosophy, role, quarterback, etc all play a role in your production level.

I most certainly understood the conversation, but IMO you made a lousy point to mention Graham's production. I agree he's declined slightly, but it's lazy to reference his best season to support your argument.

This will be the first time Graham has been featured in an elite offense since 2014. I'm interested to see what he provides.

You can say that Rodgers is a better QB than Wilson (and be right) but saying that Graham hasn't been in an elite offense since 2014 is incorrect. The 2016 Packers scored more points than the Seahawks but the Seahawks averaged more yards per attempt passing the ball. Same thing in 2015. I'll also point out that the Seahawks completion percentage in 2015 was higher than the Packers and basically the exact same in 2016 (65 vs 64.9). Graham is not the player he was after his knee injury. That's not based on production that's just based on the amount of separation that he gets now verse what he got pre-injury. He's still a very good slot WR and should help the team, but I don't think he's anywhere close to the player he was when he was in New Orleans.

 

[PackAttack12]

You can say that Rodgers is a better QB than Wilson (and be right) but saying that Graham hasn't been in an elite offense since 2014 is incorrect. The 2016 Packers scored more points than the Seahawks but the Seahawks averaged more yards per attempt passing the ball. Same thing in 2015. I'll also point out that the Seahawks completion percentage in 2015 was higher than the Packers and basically the exact same in 2016 (65 vs 64.9). Graham is not the player he was after his knee injury. That's not based on production that's just based on the amount of separation that he gets now verse what he got pre-injury. He's still a very good slot WR and should help the team, but I don't think he's anywhere close to the player he was when he was in New Orleans.

If you're going to attempt to make the case that the Seahawks have had an elite offense over the past few seasons then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Lol. He’s definitely not the same player he was in his prime, stats and eye test both indicate that, not sure how anyone could possibly say there’s nothing to indicate graham has declined some. But hey you might be right, it’s possible he has a career year here and surpasses the 1200 yards and 16 tds he had in the 2013 season

Stats don't tell the story. You do realize his production didn't go down until he played 3 years with the most overrated QB in football, right? Wilson isn't even CLOSE to being on the same level as Brees, let alone Rodgers. Wilson also hasn't had decent pass protection the past few seasons. With Rodgers, Graham's numbers will be much closer to 2011-2014 than 2015-2017. It's not even about that anyway. It's about how much of an asset he will be in the offense. Brees has never distributed the ball to his different receivers as well as Rodgers does. Brees targeted Graham more than 150 times a couple of those seasons. That's how Brees plays. He picks a favorite target and goes to that guy over and over and over.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I like the signing, but like many others I agree that Kendricks needs to go. He's done essentially nothing in 2 seasons to distinguish himself.

He hasn't been here two seasons. Not sure where you got that idea. Try one season mostly playing with Hundley who sucks.

 

[Jerellh528]

You seemed to be insinuating that maybe the poster you were quoting is correct that he hasn't declined and would match or surpass his best season as a pro. I was simply saying that just because your numbers aren't quite what they used to be doesn't mean that you have declined. Team, philosophy, role, quarterback, etc all play a role in your production level.

I most certainly understood the conversation, but IMO you made a lousy point to mention Graham's production. I agree he's declined slightly, but it's lazy to reference his best season to support your argument.

This will be the first time Graham has been featured in an elite offense since 2014. I'm interested to see what he provides.

Nah, you misinterpreted it. Read again and make sure you know what you’re talking about or don’t imply stuff. It makes you look a bit foolish

 

[Jerellh528]

Stats don't tell the story. You do realize his production didn't go down until he played 3 years with the most overrated QB in football, right? Wilson isn't even CLOSE to being on the same level as Brees, let alone Rodgers. Wilson also hasn't had decent pass protection the past few seasons. With Rodgers, Graham's numbers will be much closer to 2011-2014 than 2015-2017. It's not even about that anyway. It's about how much of an asset he will be in the offense. Brees has never distributed the ball to his different receivers as well as Rodgers does. Brees targeted Graham more than 150 times a couple of those seasons. That's how Brees plays. He picks a favorite target and goes to that guy over and over and over.

I never said he wouldn’t be an asset, it’s obvious he’s an upgrade over any
tight end we’ve had in years. That still doesn’t change anything I’ve said.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Lol. He’s definitely not the same player he was in his prime, stats and eye test both indicate that, not sure how anyone could possibly say there’s nothing to indicate graham has declined some. But hey you might be right, it’s possible he has a career year here and surpasses the 1200 yards and 16 tds he had in the 2013 season

Drew brees to Russell Wilson. That explains everything imo.
I read Jimmy Graham said "I'm still 6'7". I still run 4.5s"........ that right there I didn't realize.... this dude is a super freak. #12 is going to feast!

With Jones, and Monty putting up 6ypc the last couple years. And Williams looking very solid. I'm optimistic we will have a run attack, to go along with our pass game, this year.

Mercedes Lewis is going to give us a wicked 2 te formation

 

[Conso]

He's not old. Most TEs of his caliber play at a high level well into their mid-thirties. He should have 4-6 good years left in him.

Didn’t Shannon Sharpe play well into his 30’s too? He was good for a long time. I want to say a TE from K.C. as well....oh yea Tony Gonzalez I think was his name? Both were good for a very long time and I think Tony played into 40’s. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, been a long time since they played.

 

[Conso]

The thing for me is yeah, Lewis is a terrific blocking TE, but maybe he's not bad as a receiver either. Consider that although he only caught 24 passes last season, they went for about 13 YPC and 5 TD's. Add to that the Jags were a predominately running team and their QB is Bortles. I'm giving this signing two thumbs up.

Everything being done this offseason feels like gearing up the offense for a AR MVP season. Huge receiving TE, another big TE that is a great run blocker and decent recieving stats with a mainly running team and a “eh” QB. So maybe both of them have big seasons, add in some good WRs and you have numerous weapons for AR, one of the most dangerous QBs of our generation. More than he is used to. I see a potentially league-leading offense. Huge passing yardage and TDs galore spread out all over the field. Stop JG? Ok Lewis steps in, stop Lewis and JG? Adams gets the pass, stop all 3 of them, you got Cobb and that’s if the run game isn’t a threat, which should open up some more with all these passing threats. I can agree with some more love needed at LB, but with options limited it looks like Gute is stacking the deck offensively to make up for what’s missing on defense. Maybe next years draft will have more of what Gute wants for the team?

 

[BrokenArrow]

I never said he wouldn’t be an asset, it’s obvious he’s an upgrade over any
tight end we’ve had in years. That still doesn’t change anything I’ve said.

Well, you're right about that. What's been said has been said.

 

[Half Empty]

Didn’t Shannon Sharpe play well into his 30’s too? He was good for a long time. I want to say a TE from K.C. as well....oh yea Tony Gonzalez I think was his name? Both were good for a very long time and I think Tony played into 40’s. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, been a long time since they played.

Give or take a birthday, Shannon played until 33/34, and in his last year started 15 games, caught 62 for 770

Gonzalez was 3-4 years older, and had 16/83/859

 

[Half Empty]

Drew brees to Russell Wilson. That explains everything imo.
I read Jimmy Graham said "I'm still 6'7". I still run 4.5s"........ that right there I didn't realize.... this dude is a super freak. #12 is going to feast!

With Jones, and Monty putting up 6ypc the last couple years. And Williams looking very solid. I'm optimistic we will have a run attack, to go along with our pass game, this year.

Mercedes Lewis is going to give us a wicked 2 te formation

He was close to that in 2016. Last year, the average was 3.8

 

[gbgary]

Kendricks has only been a Packer for 1 season. I'm not sure how the Packers feel about Kendricks and I guess we will find out if Lewis was signed to replace him or just to add more depth. I still think evaluating Kendricks only based on what he did last year, would be short sighted given the circumstances of being in a new system and having Hundley as his QB for much of the season.

idk. i have a feeling they've seen all they need to see of him. lewis is rated the better blocker, and the better all-around te. as i mentioned earlier $2.25m cap hit is a lot for a guy who won't play.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

idk. i have a feeling they've seen all they need to see of him. lewis is rated the better blocker, and the better all-around te. as i mentioned earlier $2.25m cap hit is a lot for a guy who won't play.

You would think that if the Packers were done with Kendricks, after signing Lewis, they would have immediately released Lance. If he isn't cut soon, my guess is that they want a healthy preseason battle between the 2 and one gets cut or they just want to be 3 veterans deep at TE, I would prefer the latter.

 

[AmishMafia]

I expected more from Kendricks last year. Thought he was a victim of poor QB play during his career. Didnt do enough last season to give him that pass any longer. But willing to give him another training camp and preseason to show he deserves a roster spot.

 

[gopkrs]

You would think that if the Packers were done with Kendricks, after signing Lewis, they would have immediately released Lance. If he isn't cut soon, my guess is that they want a healthy preseason battle between the 2 and one gets cut or they just want to be 3 veterans deep at TE, I would prefer the latter.

Not sure about the salary ramifications but you would want to keep Kendricks around as long as possible in case of any kind of injury to one of the other tight ends.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not sure about the salary ramifications but you would want to keep Kendricks around as long as possible in case of any kind of injury to one of the other tight ends.

Agreed. He is due to get a $300K roster bonus and a $1.25M salary.

I really don't see any big advantage of releasing him at this point. IMO, I don't really see him not being kept on the final 53 either, if he earns it. The TE is an important position and if Graham goes down, $1.55M isn't that big of an insurance policy (in the NFL) with a player that has Kendricks resume.

 

[GleefulGary]

Agreed. He is due to get a $300K roster bonus and a $1.25M salary.

I really don't see any big advantage of releasing him at this point. IMO, I don't really see him not being kept on the final 53 eith, if he earns it. The TE is an important position and if Graham goes down, $1.55M isn't that big of an insurance policy with a player that has Kendricks resume.

For sure.

Lance isn’t getting cut.

MM loves TE’s, and Lance is a versatile player. He’s staying.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

For sure.

Lance isn’t getting cut.

MM loves TE’s, and Lance is a versatile player. He’s staying.

What proof is there that this is even true?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What proof is there that this is even true?

I doubt that both TT and now Gute would be signing top FA TE's over the last 3 years if MM didn't request having them.

 

[GleefulGary]

What proof is there that this is even true?

Uhhh...years and years of quotes from MM.

He loves their versatility, especially on ST’s. Don’t you remember Crabtree, Ryan Taylor, etc etc.

 

[gbgary]

Not sure about the salary ramifications but you would want to keep Kendricks around as long as possible in case of any kind of injury to one of the other tight ends.

sure. they may let the summer play out and see what's up, maybe even the preseason, they may want to sign another FA and need the space, but i bet kendricks is gone. jmo. no biggie.

 

[gopkrs]

sure. they may let the summer play out and see what's up, maybe even the preseason, they want to sign another FA and need the space, but i bet kendricks is gone. jmo. no biggie.

Yes gbgary, that is my thought also. Though we may keep him. It will totally depend on the roster situation and if a young TE shows a lot of potential.