The Jordan Love Thread

[OkieCheesehead]

Something I just wanted to get off my chest. Sometimes I read other forums. Not just one guy but sometimes someone will say something like..."well I'll just say one thing...Love is not it." It bugs me because if you say that about every young QB; you are most always gonna be right in the long run. It just does so not take a genius to say something when the odds are just on your side. Doesn't matter if you know a damn thing about football or not. Just saying.

This times a thousand. Fans are so quick to cast off a young guy trying to compete. Just look back to Rodgers in training camp of 08. Good things take time!

 

[Heyjoe4]

He already is a backup and of value to the team he is currently with. Not to mention that he has shown quite a bit of improvement this year, just ask MLF, Rodgers or his teammates. So why would a team that has 3 straight seasons of 13 wins, has a 38 year old QB, that has contemplated retiring or asking for a trade twice, be interested in trading Love?

I also don't agree that he currently directly controls his future, trade value or earnings. The Packers at this point have more control of all those things.

To be clear, Love is valuable to GB right now as a backup. And I agree he has shown some improvement this year.

I think all players determine their own value by the way they play. It's true they may not have complete control over where they play, but if they're good enough, even that is questionable. By example, Rodgers has played well enough to earn $50 mil/year. There's no debate. Now Love has to play well enough to establish his own value so that teams will want him on their roster. I hope he succeeds and I hope he succeeds in GB. Time and performance will tell.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Now Love has to play well enough to establish his own value so that teams will want him on their roster. I hope he succeeds and I hope he succeeds in GB. Time and performance will tell.

When will Love have an opportunity to establish his own value? A backup QB is probably the position that has the least amount of control over what you are talking about. Especially one that is sitting behind a FHOF QB. While I understand that Love can influence his value during practices and preseason, I don't remember the last QB that established his own value by being good as a preseason QB.

As a #2 QB, Love's fate for the next 2-3 years is totally in the hands of the Packers, as well as somewhat in the hands of Rodgers. Either an injury to Aaron, allowing Love playing time or a potential decision by Rodgers to retire, making Love the starting QB.

He could potentially have a Matt Flynn like moment, but unless that comes at the end of his contract, the Packers will still control his future.

 

[Pkrjones]

When will Love have an opportunity to establish his own value? A backup QB is probably the position that has the least amount of control over what you are talking about. Especially one that is sitting behind a FHOF QB. While I understand that Love can influence his value during practices and preseason, I don't remember the last QB that established his own value by being good as a preseason QB.

As a #2 QB, Love's fate for the next 2-3 years is totally in the hands of the Packers, as well as somewhat in the hands of Rodgers. Either an injury to Aaron, allowing Love playing time or a potential decision by Rodgers to retire, making Love the starting QB.

2022 GB needs to have 20 pt. lead with 6 minutes left for MLF to pull AR to give Love some real-game experience. At best that'll only occur 4 or 5 games, max. Does that 20-30 minutes of experience help Love much?

Short of an AR injury we won't see much of Love in '22.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Re bolded portion ....... February 2020, Gutekunst told Rodgers there was a possibility/probability that a QB would be drafted.

Edit: No one here knows what exactly Gutekunst thought about Rodgers back in the winter of 2020. You don't know whether Gutekunst thought he was "done" or not.

We hadn't seen anything in the previous 4 seasons to lead anyone to believe that he was still capable of back to back MVP seasons.

Agreed. Anyone who follows Football and the Packers, knows that there were known and probably a few unknown reasons that Gute decided to give up a late first and a 4th for Love. I won't rehash all those reasons, but one could say the same thing for why Gute drafted Rashan Gary, when he had just signed Z Dog and Preston in Free Agency to 4 year contracts a few months earlier.

I understand questioning draft picks as a fan, but unless you have access to all the information Gute and the staff are privy too, its hard to understand how some fans can be so confident that they know more than the GM. I prefer waiting on the evaluation, after the rookie contract is up and of course, I always try to keep in mind that the evaluation is being done with hindsight.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

2022 GB needs to have 20 pt. lead with 6 minutes left for MLF to pull AR to give Love some real-game experience. At best that'll only occur 4 or 5 games, max. Does that 20-30 minutes of experience help Love much?

Short of an AR injury we won't see much of Love in '22.

Right and if he pulls Rodgers, he is also probably pulling the rest of the starters, as might the other team. In that situation, you are left with a preseason like game, to try and evaluate him. I can't remember all the details of that game when Matt Flynn started and lit up the Lions, but I know the Packers rested many starters, since they were 14-1 and had wrapped up the #1 seed. The Seahawks ended up paying Flynn a lot of money in Free agency that year, probably mostly based on that 1 game. I think Flynn had another decent outing against the Pats. Bad deal for the Seahawks, they also drafted Russell Wilson that year and he beat out Flynn for the starting job.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I will only add this about Jordan Love. I saw this same type scenario play out with Brett Huntley...GB hung onto him until it was so PAINfully obvious he just want a starter or for that matter, a reliable backup. I see Love in the same light. Oh, sure...a play here, a nice throw there, but basically...cut from the same mold as BH. Trade him or cut your losses is my opinion. I do not think he was ever worth a 1st round pick and he is proving that. His accuracy is so very suspect. He has happy feet and indecisive. Plus..he is playing against second, third stringers. Nothing to get excited about him or prospects for team if anything were to happen to Rodgers, IMO. Now, granted, I'm a Football fan. I played a lot, Coached a little, but certainly do not make my living at it but I have seen a lot of NFL games in the last 62 years and QB play...Jordan Love is not GB Packer future, unless Mediocre play is all that is wanted.
.

Yeah the Hundley comparison is pretty good. For better or worse, Love needs to be given the chance to prove he can start - either for the Packers or another team if Rodgers plays another two, or more, years. I don't think Gluten is gonna draft or trade for a QB in the foreseeable future (although I wouldn't rule anything out). So if Love fails to improve, and Rodgers calls it quits in 2 years (or one year), the Packers are gonna be in trouble at QB. Yes, the D will be improved, maybe even top 5. Hopefully the STs unit will stop the bleeding. Not sure that's gonna be enough to make the playoffs, much less make a deep run.

 

[longtimefan]

Agreed. Anyone who follows Football and the Packers, knows that there were known and probably a few unknown reasons that Gute decided to give up a late first and a 4th for Love. I won't rehash all those reasons, but one could say the same thing for why Gute drafted Rashan Gary, when he had just signed Z Dog and Preston in Free Agency to 4 year contracts a few months earlier.

I understand questioning draft picks as a fan, but unless you have access to all the information Gute and the staff are privy too, its hard to understand how some fans can be so confident that they know more than the GM. I prefer waiting on the evaluation, after the rookie contract is up and of course, I always try to keep in mind that the evaluation is being done with hindsight.

Im convinced the team felt he was declining.. He was still goooooddddd...but accuracy was off on swing passes and similar.
Then I think he had a time line he wanted to follow.or they wanted to follow.

They felt Love was the project they could handle and get ready in the 5 years.

If they do t trade him by next year, im pretty sure that they pick up the 5th year.

 

[Spanky]

Disagree. They could very easily like Love’s potential for the future even in light of Rodgers’ extension.

Disagree. If Murphy/Gute thought Jordan Love was the heir apparent they would have traded Rodgers for a king's ransom of draft picks and saved a boatload of cash against the cap.

That's exactly what a number of people on this very message board wanted them to do.

But Love's lack of development removed that option.

 

[OldSchool101]

I will only add this about Jordan Love. I saw this same type scenario play out with Brett Huntley...GB hung onto him until it was so PAINfully obvious he just want a starter or for that matter, a reliable backup. I see Love in the same light. Oh, sure...a play here, a nice throw there, but basically...cut from the same mold as BH. Trade him or cut your losses is my opinion. I do not think he was ever worth a 1st round pick and he is proving that. His accuracy is so very suspect. He has happy feet and indecisive. Plus..he is playing against second, third stringers. Nothing to get excited about him or prospects for team if anything were to happen to Rodgers, IMO. Now, granted, I'm a Football fan. I played a lot, Coached a little, but
.

Conjecture is the word that pops up. Conjecture never holds itself in argument, so I’m going to call foul ball on this one. Here’s why and if you’ve watched 62 years of football you shouldn’t have any trouble with this next part. That’s a ton of information so you’ll have an abundance of options here.

Very, very few NFL teams draft a QB that is performing at a high starter level after their 4th Preseason contest or into their 2nd live season in the NFL. Even fewer of the couple of QB you can find around the league of 32 teams were College Juniors. Even less were drafted around a Late Day1 selection. It’s almost a Unicorn type expectation. As one closer recent example I can think of, there’s Justin Herbert. But he’s a 6th overall draft selection! By later Day 1 (call it outside the top 20-25 drafted overall) you generally get a more risky project.

So with that said.
@Michael Eshenbaugh I have an expectations question challenge I’m asking to validate if what you say hold as a valid or reasonable argument

Give us some examples of QB’s who meet the following conditions

1. Were successful starters or high level backups by their second live season.
AND
2. College Juniors upon the drafting of said player
AND
3. Had <=6 total games or less of Preseason games + Regular season action before becoming a starter.
AND
4. Were drafted outside the top 20+ overall.

 

[Spanky]

Conjecture is the word that pops up. Conjecture never holds itself in argument, so I’m going to call foul ball on this one. Here’s why and if you’ve watched 62 years of football you shouldn’t have any trouble with this next part. That’s a ton of information so you’ll have an abundance of options here.

Very, very few NFL teams draft a QB that is performing at a high starter level after their 4th Preseason contest or into their 2nd live season in the NFL. Even fewer of the couple of QB you can find around the league of 32 teams were College Juniors. Even less were drafted around a Late Day1 selection. It’s almost a Unicorn type expectation. As one closer recent example I can think of, there’s Justin Herbert. But he’s a 6th overall draft selection! By later Day 1 (call it outside the top 20-25 drafted overall) you generally get a more risky project.

So with that said.
@Michael Eshenbaugh I have an expectations question challenge I’m asking to validate if what you say hold as a valid or reasonable argument

Give us some examples of QB’s who meet the following conditions that Jordan checks off.

1. Were successful starters or high level backups by their second live season.
AND
2. College Juniors upon the drafting of said player
AND
3. Had <=6 total games or less of Preseason games + Regular season action before becoming a starter.
AND
4. Were drafted outside the top 20+ overall.

Without doing any research -- Davis Mills meets your fairly contrived criteria.

 

[OldSchool101]

Without doing any research -- Davis Mills meets your fairly contrived criteria.

Well you are not a nice one are you.

Let me ask this a different way @Spanky and I want your honest answer (see how I play respectfully)

PS. It’s a great answer he’s not a terrible player. But let’s compare the two QB’s

If Jordan Love took over tomorrow and went 2-9 as a starter. Would you consider Jordan successful?

 

[PikeBadger]

Agreed. Anyone who follows Football and the Packers, knows that there were known and probably a few unknown reasons that Gute decided to give up a late first and a 4th for Love. I won't rehash all those reasons, but one could say the same thing for why Gute drafted Rashan Gary, when he had just signed Z Dog and Preston in Free Agency to 4 year contracts a few months earlier.

I understand questioning draft picks as a fan, but unless you have access to all the information Gute and the staff are privy too, its hard to understand how some fans can be so confident that they know more than the GM. I prefer waiting on the evaluation, after the rookie contract is up and of course, I always try to keep in mind that the evaluation is being done with hindsight.

It's all in the wording that some posters use when draft picks don't go "their way". People that are privy to maybe 10% of the info that the professionals are considering.

 

[PikeBadger]

Im convinced the team felt he was declining.. He was still goooooddddd...but accuracy was off on swing passes and similar.
Then I think he had a time line he wanted to follow.or they wanted to follow.

They felt Love was the project they could handle and get ready in the 5 years.

If they do t trade him by next year, im pretty sure that they pick up the 5th year.

Rodgers mechanics had become sloppy (even by his own admission). We were seeing too much back foot throwing in those years. To his credit, he changed that and I think it has paid substantial dividends. The only thing I noticed in 21 was that his long ball accuracy didn't seem to be all that good. He was incredibly accurate on the long passes in 20.

 

[Spanky]

Well you are not a nice one are you.

Let me ask this a different way @Spanky and I want your honest answer (see how I play respectfully)

PS. It’s a great answer he’s not a terrible player. But let’s compare the two QB’s

If Jordan Love took over tomorrow and went 2-9 as a starter. Would you consider Jordan successful?

I don't judge QB's by W-L records. And I will also say 2-9 as a 2021 Texans QB is not the same as 2-9 as 2022 Packers QB. The Packers have vastly more talent up and down the roster.

 

[longtimefan]

Well we know Mark Murphy/Brian Gutekunst do not think Love is "it." Because if they did they would not have extended Aaron Rodgers for $50 million per season.

He is a project and they are willing to wait the 4 years

MM or Gute? Said last year he has a long way to go..so they knew. Im not sure why people insist to stick to the Notion he was ready to play at draft day

Evidence points to they know he wasn't and isn't ready

 

[Dantés]

Disagree. If Murphy/Gute thought Jordan Love was the heir apparent they would have traded Rodgers for a king's ransom of draft picks and saved a boatload of cash against the cap.

That's exactly what a number of people on this very message board wanted them to do.

But Love's lack of development removed that option.

You could be right, but you could also be way off base. You’re guessing.

An alternative possibility is that they decided that they had to keep Rodgers because he’s just been that good, but that they still like Love and want to develop him.

Notice that they didn’t trade Love either.

 

[OldSchool101]

That response and several others have nothing to do with my analysis. What none of you "Respondents" addressed was the Validity of my assessment when it came to Hundley. That is what I stated when I wrote what I wrote. The very similarities between these two. Now you all may not mind mediocre, but I do. Just because "Gute" was sold on the guy does not make it a wise choice. Now, I'm speaking my opinion. Your opinion may not be the same, but being outright ugly about it shows your ignorance of what being a fan is. If that shoe fits any of you, wear it. It is my Opinion. Get a life..geesh.

I wasn’t ugly at all @Michael Eshenbaugh. I simply asked you to state your argument on an opinion that’s is very premature for a Junior college QB coming into the NFL with a Redshirt season on him.

Here’s your player example. After 2 Full offseason programs and lots of preseason time.

Brett Hundley.

2/10 17Yds 20.0% pass
1.7avg. 0/1INT 0 rating
3 rushes -2 yards (-.7avg) 1 Fumble.

That’s a disaster. Lol

 

[Pkrjones]

...but I don't see the Pack extending him. But again, My opinion. And I think they would have picked up his option by now...so...he probably will not be a Packer for next year..imo.

Gute doesn't need to exercise the 5th year option on Love until next May, why would he do so earlier?

I've said it before...Love turns 24 in November 2022. He's still young and learning. IMHO he'll be ready to take over and win IF AR goes down to injury or if AR decides to retire after the last win in February.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't judge QB's by W-L records. And I will also say 2-9 as a 2021 Texans QB is not the same as 2-9 as 2022 Packers QB. The Packers have vastly more talent up and down the roster.

As I said you actually had a nice find I thought. Perfect age example also. I think Mills is like 1 month older Earlier 3rd Rounder vs. Later 1st Rounder so that’s in the same realm.

But here’s the result of that finding. How many people in here would take a call tonight and trade Love for Mills and be enthused?

Point being we really have not hit on a huge success story here either. Mills isn’t really arguably better than Jordan even with 11 regular season games. Look at how he started also. His first few regular season games were pretty rough, use Wiki. But as expected.
I like that player comparison though nicely done. Anyone else??

 

[tynimiller]

As I said you actually had a nice find I thought. Perfect age example also. I think Stills is like 1 month older Earlier 3rd Rounder vs. Later 1st Rounder so that’s in the same realm.

But here’s the result of that finding. How many people in here would take a call tonight and trade Love for Stills and be enthused?

Terrible trade - terrible. I’d be less than one percent enthused

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What none of you "Respondents" addressed was the Validity of my assessment when it came to Hundley.

You are very correct...Love could very well turn out to be the next Hundley. However, it wasnt until year 3 and Rodgers breaking his collarbone that the Packers got a full 9 regular season games to adequately assess Hundley's abilities. Until Love is given that type of opportunity, I don’t think anyone can be to sure of his future in the NFL.

 

[longtimefan]

Well, Gee. Joe Burrow was...And that guy in KC was...oh, and that guy in Buffalo was...and the list goes on and on. Love is not a #1QB. IMO..

And at the time they drafted him he wasnt

I thought that is what I just typed up?????????? They were willing to wait 3 or 4 years

 

[JK64]

Why aren't other Love " haters" ( that's a loosely used term) as level headed as you?
that is perfect assessment

How many games do you think the Packers win with Love as a starter?

 

[rmontro]

Yeah the Hundley comparison is pretty good. For better or worse, Love needs to be given the chance to prove he can start - either for the Packers or another team if Rodgers plays another two, or more, years.

I wonder if MLF was looking for a game manager-type quarterback in Love? There were stories going around at the time about Rodgers' diva attitude (the stories might not have been true, but they were going around). MLF comes in with a run first mindset, maybe at the time he was thinking it would be better to not deal with the ego or the superstar, and he saw Love as a guy who would do what he said. I remember MLF being almost insanely happy about the Packers drafting Love.