The Jordan Love Thread

[G0P4ckG0]

As i said above, please let me know of my logic is wrong but counting on numerous elite players being drafted and healthy to allow an average QB to win a championship appears to be a far riskier strategy than building around an elite QB. You’re talking about saving $20m a year, which will get you one elite CB or pass rusher or two good players. Doesn’t make sense to me.

You don't need to replace an elite QB with an elite defensive player. Having a C+ QB with 5 B- defenders is better than a A+ QB with 5 D+ defenders. Relying on an elite player will decimate a team if he goes down with an injury.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You don't need to replace an elite QB with an elite defensive player. Having a C+ QB with 5 B- defenders is better than a A+ QB with 5 D+ defenders. Relying on an elite player will decimate a team if he goes down with an injury.

An elite QB isn’t keeping a team from signing five above average defenders.

To your point about injury, an elite QB is only ONE guy to get injured but having to rely on multiple players means an injury to any one of those could ruin the season.

An average QB vs an elite QB is a diff of $20m a season. Using that money to sign a few B- guys while going from A+ to C at QB is not an improvement in the team.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Nope, Brady has only won one Super Bowl without an elite defense if I recall correctly.

Brady actually never won a Super Bowl with a defense ranked outside the top 8 in points allowed. To be fair, he only had to deal with a defense finishing worse than 8th in points allowed in six of his 20 seasons.

Certainly not sure about everyone but Ryan Fitzpatrick just signed for $10 million.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has never even played in a playoff game. I'm not sure it makes a ton of sense trying to prove a point by mentioning him.

Here's a question, why is it that the last time that Seattle had a dominant defense Wilson was still on his rookie deal?

There's absolutely no doubt that teams hugely benefit from having a starting quarterback on a rookie deal. That was another reason selecting Love last year was a head-scratcher.

Competent coaching is invaluable and we haven't had it on defense since...well...our most recent Super Bowl.

What you're saying is that Capers was a competent coach for his first two seasons with the Packers but then forgot how to do it???

 

[gopkrs]

What you're saying is that Capers was a competent coach for his first two seasons with the Packers but then forgot how to do it???

imho we would have been better off without Capers

 

[easyk83]

What you're saying is that Capers was a competent coach for his first two seasons with the Packers but then forgot how to do it???

One of the oft repeated bits of board wisdom is that Capers has historically performed well for about 2-3 years handling a defense before his units start to collapse. I'm sure you've read this sort of take before, and its one that I subscribe to. One of the complaints about his units from former players has been that he had way too many concepts checks and reads for players to make and that his full defense was too complex and unwieldly. This would also explain why after our 2010 season that his defenses would at times look good with a habit of melting down in key moments.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

One of the oft repeated bits of board wisdom is that Capers has historically performed well for about 2-3 years handling a defense before his units start to collapse. I'm sure you've read this sort of take before, and its one that I subscribe to. One of the complaints about his units from former players has been that he had way too many concepts checks and reads for players to make and that his full defense was too complex and unwieldly. This would also explain why after our 2010 season that his defenses would at times look good with a habit of melting down in key moments.

This. He did not play to his players' strengths after the Super Bowl and became complacent with evolving his scheme. For players he was too confusing and for opposing teams he was too easy to figure out - objective opinion.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

imho we would have been better off without Capers

Uhhhh, Capers' defense is what lead the team to the Super Bowl; you might not like his later years but you can't really believe they should never have hired him?

 

[gopkrs]

Uhhhh, Capers' defense is what lead the team to the Super Bowl; you might not like his later years but you can't really believe they should never have hired him?

Would rather not have had him then to have him for so long.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Would rather not have had him then to have him for so long.

I'll take the definite Super Bowl over maybe having a Super Bowl. People always get any angry at Capers but forget that MM is the guy that kept him too long. Ideally, MM would have been out after the Seattle playoff loss.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I think the error was holding onto Capers too long, as well as MM, as well as TT... This team is too loyal to the underperforming.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

I think the error was holding onto Capers too long, as well as MM, as well as TT... This team is too loyal to the underperforming.

You forgot the other MM

 

[GreenNGold_81]

You forgot the other MM

No kidding... That MM seems like he's just a thorn in Gutey's side these days.

 

[Passepartout]

Well they need to not under performed at the NFC Title Game like they did. As really kicking a FG when there are seconds left in the fourth quarter against Tom Brady aka the GOAT!

 

[G0P4ckG0]

Well they need to not under performed at the NFC Title Game like they did. As really kicking a FG when there are seconds left in the fourth quarter against Tom Brady aka the GOAT!

That's been my only complaint with MLF

 

[Deleted member 6794]

imho we would have been better off without Capers

The Packers won the Super Bowl with him coordinating a great defense. I'm sorry but that's a silly take.

One of the oft repeated bits of board wisdom is that Capers has historically performed well for about 2-3 years handling a defense before his units start to collapse. I'm sure you've read this sort of take before, and its one that I subscribe to. One of the complaints about his units from former players has been that he had way too many concepts checks and reads for players to make and that his full defense was too complex and unwieldly. This would also explain why after our 2010 season that his defenses would at times look good with a habit of melting down in key moments.

I don't believe that Capers suddenly forgot how to successfully coach a defense after two years with the Packers. The unit lost Collins in the second game after winning the Super Bowl and never rebounded from it. A lack of talent definitely contributed to it though.

This. He did not play to his players' strengths after the Super Bowl and became complacent with evolving his scheme. For players he was too confusing and for opposing teams he was too easy to figure out - objective opinion.

I'm curious as to why you believe the scheme was fine during the first two years of Capers' tenure.

 

[gopkrs]

The Packers won the Super Bowl with him coordinating a great defense. I'm sorry but that's a silly take.

I don't think it is silly. You are willing to win one super bowl for years of no adjustments and getting knocked out of playoffs. And who is to say we would not have won that one and others besides?

 

[Krabs]

I'm curious as to why you believe the scheme was fine during the first two years of Capers' tenure.

Because the game is always evolving. Capers was fine with just doing the same thing he had done for years and not changing his scheme or building it around the talent he had.

In saying that, talent masks a lot of things. I've always said that the players are more important than the coaches. When a coach gets to where they are they know their x's and o's. There is only so much a coach can do with the players they have. As you mentioned, losing Collins was a big deal. Matthews, Raji, Bishop, and even Zombo were in their primes. That 2010 defense was just a great unit all the way around.

Probably a bit of a mixed message here, but a coach needs the players to win while also adapting to the game.

 

[PackAttack12]

I'm excited that we're finally going to get some tape on Love.

 

[Mondio]

there was a lot going on in all those years. I thought he did a pretty good job by the end of the seasons in playing to players strengths and earlier in the year was more about finding those weakness and working on them which sometimes left the defense looking dysfunctional.

not many teams are winning NFCCG's with Ladarius Gunter as your #1 DB. not saying his scheme was perfect, but there was a lost a lot of other stuff going on in some pretty big games that shouldn't just be glossed over.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think it is silly. You are willing to win one super bowl for years of no adjustments and getting knocked out of playoffs. And who is to say we would not have won that one and others besides?

I mostly blame the defense struggling after winning the Super Bowl on a lack of talent.

It's possible the Packers could have won the Super Bowl with a different coordinator in 2010 but far from a given.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

What an absolute bust.......total waste of a draft choice. Thought I`d stir the pot.

 

[Dantés]

This was an encouraging debut for Love.

I was most pleased by the way that he handled pressure. It was pretty consistent, and he hung in, kept his eyes downfield, slid to avoid it and delivered catchable balls.

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:28-- it's an incompletion, but the pocket was muddy and it appears to me that he put the ball where only Amari could have caught it (hard to be sure without another angle). It looked like pretty good coverage across the field. I guess he maybe could have had a better shot with that curl on the field side.

:40-- modest gain, but consider that his first and second read didn't materialize, he had pressure in his face, he slid to avoid it, and found Dillon late for a short gain. That sort of composure and decision making is really important.

1:11-- without all-22, I can't say whether he held the ball too long or not. However, it's another example of lots of pressure, eyes downfield, good pocket movement.

1:29-- a strike under pressure; my only question on this one is whether he saw that blindside rusher.

3:00-- by the time he turns back from the PA fake, he's got a linebacker breather down his neck, but he still gets off a catchable ball.

Even on the stripped ball, there was heavy pressure and his eyes were downfield and he was delivering a pass.

Good start!

 

[lambeaulambo]

What an absolute bust.......total waste of a draft choice. Thought I`d stir the pot.

imagine that!!! lol

 

[Tarzan2490]

My only question, let's say Love finishes decently but not too strong. Rodgers has another MVP season and wants to stay. Do you go with Love and the future? or let him sit one more year under Rodgers?

 

[Mondio]

If Rodgers has another MVP season, he plays again if he wants to. I don't foresee GB getting anything in Trade for Rodgers, I think that ship has sailed and I think now more than ever, if it's trade or retire, he just retires. So, we'll move to Love when Rodgers is done by choice or by level of play.