Such a touchy subject...

[warhawk]

I'm also pro-TT and pro-Moss.

I just don't understand the hatred for Ted Thompson. I'd say he's done an above average job.

It's hard to say TT is doing a good job when the Packers are 12-20 straight up, 2-12 vs playoff teams and 6-10 @ Lambeau under his watch.

If that is above average you're standards are low.

I label '05 as a transition year and do not put that on TT which is actually being very nice to MS since that was his team and NOT Ted's.

Since Ted's moves have had any real chance to take affect we are 8-8 and rising.

Unless of course you are in Cliff's camp and there aren't any Packer fans in those tents anyways. That's one non-fan right there.

 

[thetombradyhater]

I'm pro Moss and pro TT

 

[tromadz]

Its like Pro-Moss is Anti-TT
and
Anti-Moss is Pro-TT

als:

I'm pro-TT i guess (I'm pro-management [until management proves to me they're bad, which this staff is far away from proving to me] ) and I am on the fence on Moss. Ive said it before and ill say it one more time.

It could be amazingly great!
or
It could be so very horrible...

and I leave these decisions up to management.

 

[Packnic]

fence rider.

 

[tromadz]

fence rider.

being half-in is better than being 100% stupid

hehe

 

[Cliff]

I'm also pro-TT and pro-Moss.

I just don't understand the hatred for Ted Thompson. I'd say he's done an above average job.

It's hard to say TT is doing a good job when the Packers are 12-20 straight up, 2-12 vs playoff teams and 6-10 @ Lambeau under his watch.

If that is above average you're standards are low.

I label '05 as a transition year and do not put that on TT which is actually being very nice to MS since that was his team and NOT Ted's.

Since Ted's moves have had any real chance to take affect we are 8-8 and rising.

Unless of course you are in Cliff's camp and there aren't any Packer fans in those tents anyways. That's one non-fan right there.

What is the point of pretending???

The Packers are not a good team under Ted Thompson. The Packers may have improved to 8-8 in 2006 from their 4-12 2005 record but they still do not match up to the playoff teams in the NFL. The Packers are 2-12 vs playoff teams in TT's 2 years as GM.

In any event 2007 should bring the answers to the great debate as to whether Ted Thompson is a competent GM. TT is sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space. Any GM worth his weight in salt should have no trouble tweaking the Packers into a playoff team in 2007.

 

[Zero2Cool]

For ***** n grins, what was the Packers record vs playoff teams under Sherman?

 

[warhawk]

Cliff says: "TT is sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space".

My guess is no one is more aware of that then TT since he is the principal party behind us being in that position in the first place.

You know you talk like a GM walks through the door and into a situation void of any baggage from the past under the pretense everything is fresh and new and wonderfull.

Could you visit the thought for a moment that there was a good bit of chaos in Packerland when TT arrived and the fact we are "sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space" equates to a frigging dang good job done in a short period of time.

Sorry if I find that more relevant than "THE GREEN BAY PACKERS are 12-20 under TT's tenure". A little too superficial for me.

You could always throw out there Shermans record. Of course the fact it sank like a rock over the last four years he was here is irrelevant and TT walked right into a rock solid environment.

Had winner all over it. Right? Yeah buddy.

 

[Cliff]

Cliff says: "TT is sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space".

My guess is no one is more aware of that then TT since he is the principal party behind us being in that position in the first place.

You know you talk like a GM walks through the door and into a situation void of any baggage from the past under the pretense everything is fresh and new and wonderfull.

Could you visit the thought for a moment that there was a good bit of chaos in Packerland when TT arrived and the fact we are "sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space" equates to a frigging dang good job done in a short period of time.

Sorry if I find that more relevant than "THE GREEN BAY PACKERS are 12-20 under TT's tenure". A little too superficial for me.

You could always throw out there Shermans record. Of course the fact it sank like a rock over the last four years he was here is irrelevant and TT walked right into a rock solid environment.

Had winner all over it. Right? Yeah buddy.

TT inherited a 10-6 playoff team!

You don't win a NFL Championship or pick up the Lombardi trophy for having plenty of cap space.

You go out and get players who can get the job done!

 

[tromadz]

oy vey ...

 

[Cdnfavrefan]

I can see if some people are slightly nervous about TT but to call for his head already is a little impatient. It's not like he's pulled a Dan Devine a crippled the team. Even if I'm not 100% sure on him if you look at most of the successful teams they're run by consistant management. After watching us finish this year I don't see how you can't be waiting to see next season and how we progress.
BTW maybe I've got blinders on but I don't feel any Moss, TT connection other then you just know some people who want Moss to come here will turn around and call for TT's throat if it doesn't pan out

 

[Cliff]

The point is that many posters are raving about what a wonderful job that Ted Thompson is doing but they are ignoring the facts.

In the NFL success is based on won and lost records. 12 NFL teams made it to the playoffs because they had the best records not because they had the biggest salary cap space.

The Packers 1-6 record vs playoff teams in 2006 was directly related to the Packers NOT making the playoffs. I don't consider a 1-6 record vs playoff teams as being successful.

Ted Thompson leaves much to be desired.

 

[tromadz]

lol, oh cliff...

 

[Zero2Cool]

The point is that many posters are raving about what a wonderful job that Ted Thompson is doing but they are ignoring the facts.

In the NFL success is based on won and lost records. 12 NFL teams made it to the playoffs because they had the best records not because they had the biggest salary cap space.

The Packers 1-6 record vs playoff teams in 2006 was directly related to the Packers NOT making the playoffs. I don't consider a 1-6 record vs playoff teams as being successful.

Ted Thompson leaves much to be desired.

12 teams made it, 20 did NOT. Where do the odds lie?

Remember this, Brett Favre is excited to play for this team that Ted is assembling. If a sure fire HoF QB is excited over said team and you are not, where does that put your talent at assessing a pro football team?

 

[Cliff]

The point is that many posters are raving about what a wonderful job that Ted Thompson is doing but they are ignoring the facts.

In the NFL success is based on won and lost records. 12 NFL teams made it to the playoffs because they had the best records not because they had the biggest salary cap space.

The Packers 1-6 record vs playoff teams in 2006 was directly related to the Packers NOT making the playoffs. I don't consider a 1-6 record vs playoff teams as being successful.

Ted Thompson leaves much to be desired.

12 teams made it, 20 did NOT. Where do the odds lie?

Remember this, Brett Favre is excited to play for this team that Ted is assembling. If a sure fire HoF QB is excited over said team and you are not, where does that put your talent at assessing a pro football team?

lol, still ignoring the stats...

 

[Zero2Cool]

lol, still ignoring the stats...

Not at all. If you paid any attention once so ever, you'd know I can find stats fairly well and with something you lack, accuracy.

You can play stats in your favor, just remember this fact.
Brett Favre is excited to play for this team that Ted is assembling. If a sure fire HoF QB is excited over said team and you are not, where does that put your talent at assessing a pro football team?

 

[Cliff]

lol, still ignoring the stats...

Not at all. If you paid any attention once so ever, you'd know I can find stats fairly well and with something you lack, accuracy.

You can play stats in your favor, just remember this fact.
Brett Favre is excited to play for this team that Ted is assembling. If a sure fire HoF QB is excited over said team and you are not, where does that put your talent at assessing a pro football team?

lol

 

[tromadz]

oh my god zero is in a bad mood today, this is awesome

 

[cheesey]

Cliff says: "TT is sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space".

My guess is no one is more aware of that then TT since he is the principal party behind us being in that position in the first place.

You know you talk like a GM walks through the door and into a situation void of any baggage from the past under the pretense everything is fresh and new and wonderfull.

Could you visit the thought for a moment that there was a good bit of chaos in Packerland when TT arrived and the fact we are "sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space" equates to a frigging dang good job done in a short period of time.

Sorry if I find that more relevant than "THE GREEN BAY PACKERS are 12-20 under TT's tenure". A little too superficial for me.

You could always throw out there Shermans record. Of course the fact it sank like a rock over the last four years he was here is irrelevant and TT walked right into a rock solid environment.

Had winner all over it. Right? Yeah buddy.

TT inherited a 10-6 playoff team!

You don't win a NFL Championship or pick up the Lombardi trophy for having plenty of cap space.

You go out and get players who can get the job done!

A 10-6 playoff team that was on a serious decline!
Give the guy a chance to get the players! You CAN'T get them all in ONE YEAR!
I just can't understand why you think TT has no intention of making the team better. The better they are, the more job security he has. AND, the more MONEY the team makes in sales of jerseys and other products.
But no.....I'm SURE he's just trying to stock pile cap space and not use it. He'd MUCH rather let the team go in the crapper. Yeah....i'm SURE thats what he will do. That makes ALOT of sense.
Why don't you just admit you hate the guy, and nothing he does will change that.

 

[Zero2Cool]

TT inherited a 10-6 playoff team!

2004 Packers Season

Minnesota Vikings ------ Won 34-31 --- 8 - 8 --- * Playoff Team
St. Louis Rams ------------ Won 45-17 --- 8 - 8 --- * Playoff Team
Minnesota Vikings ------ Won 34-31 --- 8 - 8 --- * Playoff Team
Carolina Panthers -------- Won 24-14 --- 7 - 9
Detroit Lions -------------- Won 38-10--- 6 - 10
Dallas Cowboys ---------- Won 41-20 --- 6 - 10
Washington Redskins -- Won 28-14 --- 6 - 10
Houston Texans ---------- Won 16-13 --- 7 - 9
Detroit Lions --------------- Won 16-13 --- 6 - 10
Chicago Bears -------------- Won 31-14 --- 5 - 11

Chicago Bears --------------- Lost 10-21 --- 5 - 11
Jacksonville Jaguars ------- Lost 25-28 --- 9 - 7
NeWon York Giants ------- Lost 7-14 --- 6 - 10
Tennessee Titans ----------- Lost 27-48 --- 5 - 11
Philadelphia Eagles --------- Lost 17-47 --- 13 - 3 * Playoff Team
Indianapolis Colts ----------- Lost 31-45 --- 12 - 4 * Playoff Team

117 - 139 .457 Strength of Schedule OveralLost
67 - 93 .418 Strength of Schedule Games Won


Did not beat a team with a winning record.
3 - 2 vs playoff teams

Got embarrassed by rival in playoff game, on home turf.






2006 Packers Season

Chicago -------------- Won 26-7 --- 13 -3 * Playoff Team
Miami ----------------- Won 34-24 --- 6 - 10
Arizona --------------- Won 31-14 --- 5 - 11
Minnesota ------------ Won 23-17 --- 6 - 10
Detroit ----------------- Won 31-24 --- 3 - 13
San Francisco -------- Won 30-19 --- 7 - 9
Detroit ----------------- Won 17-9 --- 3 - 13
Minnesota ------------ Won 9-7 --- 6 - 10


Buffalo ---------------- Lost 10-24 --- 7 - 9
St. Louis ------------- Lost 20-23 --- 8 - 8
New England ------- Lost 0-35 --- 12 -4 * Playoff Team
Seattle ---------------- Lost 24-34 --- 9 - 7 * Playoff Team
N.Y. Jets ------------- Lost 10-38 --- 10 - 6 * Playoff Team
Chicago -------------- Lost 0-26 --- 13 - 3 * Playoff Team
New Orleans --------- Lost 27-34 --- 10 - 6 * Playoff Team
Philadelphia ---------- Lost 9-31 --- 10 - 6 * Playoff Team



128 - 128 .500 Strength of Schedule Overall
49 - 79 .383 Strength of Schedule Games Won

Beat one team with a winning record.
1 - 5 vs playoff teams

Essentially 7th seed in NFC, failed to make playoffs.

You don't win a NFLost Championship or pick up the Lombardi trophy for having plenty of cap space.

You go out and get players who can get the job done!

Very very true.




edit, check my numbers, im tired but cant sleep

 

[Packnic]

cliff is right... its easy to make a playoff team and win the superbowl....


you just walk in the door sit down at the desk SPEND LOTS OF MONEY and bang you have yourself a world championship...

cliff = dan snyder only way way way less intelligent

 

[Cdnfavrefan]

Cliffs right TT has left a lot to be desired and that's cause Packer fans only expect the best so as long as he keeps filling a little more of that desire each year I'll stick with him. If we all of the sudden take a steo back then you have a point but so far I can't really see decline in any year since he took over looking at the franchise as a whole. Sure at the beginnning the record took a decline but that was with a team coming off their glory years. I can handle that but it would be different if we took a step back with this team cause it's rebuilt to be on the rise. So until the end of next season I think my stance is set.

 

[Cliff]

Cliff says: "TT is sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space".

My guess is no one is more aware of that then TT since he is the principal party behind us being in that position in the first place.

You know you talk like a GM walks through the door and into a situation void of any baggage from the past under the pretense everything is fresh and new and wonderfull.

Could you visit the thought for a moment that there was a good bit of chaos in Packerland when TT arrived and the fact we are "sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space" equates to a frigging dang good job done in a short period of time.

Sorry if I find that more relevant than "THE GREEN BAY PACKERS are 12-20 under TT's tenure". A little too superficial for me.

You could always throw out there Shermans record. Of course the fact it sank like a rock over the last four years he was here is irrelevant and TT walked right into a rock solid environment.

Had winner all over it. Right? Yeah buddy.

TT inherited a 10-6 playoff team!

You don't win a NFL Championship or pick up the Lombardi trophy for having plenty of cap space.

You go out and get players who can get the job done!

A 10-6 playoff team that was on a serious decline!
Give the guy a chance to get the players! You CAN'T get them all in ONE YEAR!
I just can't understand why you think TT has no intention of making the team better. The better they are, the more job security he has. AND, the more MONEY the team makes in sales of jerseys and other products.
But no.....I'm SURE he's just trying to stock pile cap space and not use it. He'd MUCH rather let the team go in the crapper. Yeah....i'm SURE thats what he will do. That makes ALOT of sense.
Why don't you just admit you hate the guy, and nothing he does will change that.

cheesey, the problem here is that my point has been misconceived by many on the forum. I do not hate Ted Thompson but I was opposed to his hiring from day one.

The facts are basically simple. The Packers fired Mike Sherman as GM after the 2004 season and replaced him with Ted Thompson as GM. As of now TT is in the process of rebuilding the Packers.

There is no reason not to give TT is due time to get his rebuilding project done in a reasonable amount of time. I have made my points because many on this forum are giving TT credit for basically very little progress.

It is too early to call TT a failure but it is also too early to call TT a success. Hopefully the events that will take place in 2007 will give us a clearer picture of TT's competence or incompetence. We have heard so many times from TT how he wants to build his team via the draft but he has never mentioned where he would like the Packers to be in any time frame.

 

[cheesey]

Cliff says: "TT is sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space".

My guess is no one is more aware of that then TT since he is the principal party behind us being in that position in the first place.

You know you talk like a GM walks through the door and into a situation void of any baggage from the past under the pretense everything is fresh and new and wonderfull.

Could you visit the thought for a moment that there was a good bit of chaos in Packerland when TT arrived and the fact we are "sitting on an 8-8 team with plenty of cap space" equates to a frigging dang good job done in a short period of time.

Sorry if I find that more relevant than "THE GREEN BAY PACKERS are 12-20 under TT's tenure". A little too superficial for me.

You could always throw out there Shermans record. Of course the fact it sank like a rock over the last four years he was here is irrelevant and TT walked right into a rock solid environment.

Had winner all over it. Right? Yeah buddy.

TT inherited a 10-6 playoff team!

You don't win a NFL Championship or pick up the Lombardi trophy for having plenty of cap space.

You go out and get players who can get the job done!

A 10-6 playoff team that was on a serious decline!
Give the guy a chance to get the players! You CAN'T get them all in ONE YEAR!
I just can't understand why you think TT has no intention of making the team better. The better they are, the more job security he has. AND, the more MONEY the team makes in sales of jerseys and other products.
But no.....I'm SURE he's just trying to stock pile cap space and not use it. He'd MUCH rather let the team go in the crapper. Yeah....i'm SURE thats what he will do. That makes ALOT of sense.
Why don't you just admit you hate the guy, and nothing he does will change that.

cheesey, the problem here is that my point has been misconceived by many on the forum. I do not hate Ted Thompson but I was opposed to his hiring from day one.

The facts are basically simple. The Packers fired Mike Sherman as GM after the 2004 season and replaced him with Ted Thompson as GM. As of now TT is in the process of rebuilding the Packers.

There is no reason not to give TT is due time to get his rebuilding project done in a reasonable amount of time. I have made my points because many on this forum are giving TT credit for basically very little progress.

It is too early to call TT a failure but it is also too early to call TT a success. Hopefully the events that will take place in 2007 will give us a clearer picture of TT's competence or incompetence. We have heard so many times from TT how he wants to build his team via the draft but he has never mentioned where he would like the Packers to be in any time frame.

Stating that you were against his hiring from day one isn't exactly starting with an open mind. All through this thread you have blasted that he hasn't done enough, yet i keep saying he hasn't really had the time yet, which he hasn't. It would be different if the Packers were right on the edge of going to the Super Bowl when TT took over, but fact is, they weren't. They were WAY on the decline. To me, next season is the REAL test as to whether TT is the man for the job or not. After that, if the Packers tank (and it wasn't because of major players getting hurt or something, which TT has no control over) THEN i will say it's time to reconsider his hiring, and maybe look for someone else. Honsetly, i don't think any GM could have done much more then he has done with what he had to start with.
I'm not crowning him KING yet, in fact i'd say i'm right in the middle. I just believe in giving the guy an HONEST chance before i want him gone.
He may end up surprising you. (If you let him)

 

[Cliff]

Everyone should be in the middle right now about TT but many are crowning him King.