Sign Mike Daniels?

[HardRightEdge]

My problem with Capers is not limited to the infamous 5 minutes, though it is symptomatic. And my opinion has nothing to do with aggressive vs. conservative. His Packer defenses go into extended lulls and have been prone to playoff collapses. Brittle is the way I describe it. When one talks about defensive identity and culture, that falls to the coaches. There have been meaningful instances of rigid thinking.

I welcome McCarthy's increased involvement in the defense; his idea to move Matthews to the middle you might call thinking outside the box about what's going on inside the box.

Note to Eli: How can you possible give me an "agree" on this post while calling Capers a HOF coach? You are a self contradiction wrapped in an enigma.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Nobody is saying a lack of DL talent hasn't hurt the defense.

We aren't saying at all that the DL are not important in a 3-4. If our line doesn't hold the point and gets whipped, like the first half in Chicago, the defense really struggles. We are just saying they don't need to be dominate.

You literally just brought up yourself an example of a time when our 3-4 was good WITHOUT a DL full of dominate guys.

Raji, Jenkins, and Pickett were dominant at the time IMO. Was Jenkins still here Capers first year? Or was it Jolly kicking rear, or was it both? Anyways, that first year I think he *** a very good D-line still.

 

[HardRightEdge]

52% in 1982 and 58% in 2013 isnt 3%. The number is still suprisingly low to me.
Curious what the percentage is on .500+ teams vs .500- teams?

What happened to "5 years"?

Averaging the league pass % of the 9 years from 1990 - 1998 gets you 55.3%.

Averaging the league pass % of the past 5 years gets you 57.7%.

That's a 1.6 play spread in a 62 snap game.

If data is a bully, then so be it. This has been a pass first league since, I would venture a guess, you were born. I see now, not quite.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Note to Eli: How can you possible give me an "agree" on this post while calling Capers a HOF coach? You are a self contradiction wrapped in an enigma.

Because I agree with alot of what you said. I dont think its capers fault though. Which I didnt hear you say specifically. So i didnt have to disagree.., The fault lies in the lack of talent IMO... Capers and his goofy 2 man front. and his mid-3rd quarter lazy zones are because he doesnt have the talent to just play aggressively. Playing aggressive with our d-line is risky.

 

[Carl]

Raji, Jenkins, and Pickett were dominant at the time IMO. Was Jenkins still here Capers first year? Or was it Jolly kicking rear, or was it both? Anyways, that first year I think he *** a very good D-line still.

I thought you wanted 12 sacks a year from ends...

Jenkins and Pickett did not do that.

 

[Pack-12]

Because I agree with alot of what you said. I dont think its capers fault though. Which I didnt hear you say specifically. So i didnt have to disagree.., The fault lies in the lack of talent IMO... Capers and his goofy 2 man front. and his mid-3rd quarter lazy zones are because he doesnt have the talent to just play aggressively. Playing aggressive with our d-line is risky.

That doesn't explain why Capers called so much 2 man front defenses when we had the "dominant" Raji/Jenkins/Pickett combo then

 

[HardRightEdge]

Because I agree with alot of what you said. I dont think its capers fault though. Which I didnt hear you say specifically. So i didnt have to disagree.., The fault lies in the lack of talent IMO... Capers and his goofy 2 man front. and his mid-3rd quarter lazy zones are because he doesnt have the talent to just play aggressively. Playing aggressive with our d-line is risky.

When somebody questions the identity and culture of something, you can bet your bottom $ that's an indictment of the management. I think I'm about done playing school teacher.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

That doesn't explain why Capers called so much 2 man front defenses when we had the "dominant" Raji/Jenkins/Pickett combo then

we didnt do it then. we did it when jenkins left, jolly got suspended. neal stayed hurt and harrell flopped...

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

When somebody questions the identity and culture of something, you can bet your bottom $ that's an indictment of the management. I think I'm about done playing school teacher.

yea and i wouldnt have agreed if i thought you put the whole blame on capers. when lack of dline forced his moves...

 

[Half Empty]

So, do we re-sign Mike Daniels?

 

[HardRightEdge]

yea and i wouldnt have agreed if i thought you put the whole blame on capers. when lack of dline forced his moves...

"Whole blame?" Another hyperbole.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

What happened to "5 years"?

Averaging the league pass % of the 9 years from 1990 - 1998 gets you 55.3
see

Averaging the league pass % of the past 5 years gets you 57.7%.

That's a 1.6 play spread in a 62 snap game.

If data is a bully, then so be it. This has been a pass first league since, I would venture a guess, you were born. I see now, not quite.

lets

I thought you wanted 12 sacks a year from ends...

Jenkins and Pickett did not do that.

What happened to "5 years"?

Averaging the league pass % of the 9 years from 1990 - 1998 gets you 55.3%.

Averaging the league pass % of the past 5 years gets you 57.7%.

That's a 1.6 play spread in a 62 snap game.

If data is a bully, then so be it. This has been a pass first league since, I would venture a guess, you were born. I see now, not quite.

i want to see the stats for winning teams vs losing teams. i want to see the stats of yds pr pass and yds per rush. dont give me one statistic and call it infallable fact.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

"Whole blame?" Another hyperbole.

you wouldnt want a hall of fame coach OUT, if you werent blaming him for not having defensive players who can play. same argument for raji. he is great, but one man on a line gworth a turd gets buried. he did lose motivation. but i dont blame him. just like i dont blame capers for trying a one man front either... by then the camels back had broke.

 

[Carl]

lets


i want to see the stats for winning teams vs losing teams. i want to see the stats of yds pr pass and yds per rush. dont give me one statistic and call it infallable fact.

That was your own reasoning (looking at only sacks) of why Daniels wasn't very good earlier....

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

That was your own reasoning (looking at only sacks) of why Daniels wasn't very good earlier....

I want sack. I put a number of 10 sacks for ends and 6 for nose...
I also put forth my strategy that would accomplish that. By not stacking the line, and compounding their impact. you wont get to those sack numbers. But say Raji returns to his top form. And we were add a Suh at DE opposite Daniels. I think we could easily get the 26 sacks I so STUPIDLY want from the front.... Raji's lack of motivation was directly relative to not having help IMO. You want to figure out how much we lost when he decided he didnt want to be here anymore? ignore Raji's pleas. Build the defense around Daniels and Jones. And prepare to have a defense that falls apart under real pressure, every dang time...

 

[mradtke66]

we didnt do it then. we did it when jenkins left, jolly got suspended. neal stayed hurt and harrell flopped...

Um...what? Are you literally high?

The 2-man front is our nickel defense, which comes back to "3-4 OLBs are basically 4-3 ends." Our base ends slide down to 3-technique tackles and the OLBs tighten up slightly. Squint your eye and tilt your head and you will notice our 2-4 nickel is really a 4-2 nickel.

From there: This has been Caper's most-common nickel defense since he arrived. Since the majority of the NFL uses 3WRs more than 50% of the time, NFL defenses counter with nickel more than 50% of the time.

 

[Carl]

Can't do this anymore. It's making my head hurt.

 

[HardRightEdge]

i want to see the stats for winning teams vs losing teams. i want to see the stats of yds pr pass and yds per rush. dont give me one statistic and call it infallable fact.

Free resources are available to you to figure it out for yourself. Start with Seattle.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

So, do we re-sign Mike Daniels?

That is the funny part. I never said we shouldnt sign him. I said we should, in fact. As a core guy, instead of a center piece of our defense.....

So lets everyone put a price on daniels..... see where we stand... I say 5. even though we need his production. Anything more, I'd say add enough to the pot to go get a proven star to centerpiece...

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

That was your own reasoning (looking at only sacks) of why Daniels wasn't very good earlier....

Daniels wasnt any good earlier, because he wasnt any good earlier... Young 5th rounders rarely are. He is just now getting good.

 

[mradtke66]

I dont expect any of our guys to do what Watt does. THATS MY POINT!!!!!! Why pay Daniels like a stud, when he produces 1/3 of what a real stud produces?!?!?

And right there, you've got it. JJ is not a stud. He is a super-stud. On pace to be a hall of famer. Possibly the career sack leader. Hell, LIKELY if he can keep this up. Etc, etc.

6 sacks/year from a 3-4 end or 4-3 tackle IS a stud.

 

[adambr2]

I want sack. I put a number of 10 sacks for ends and 6 for nose...
I also put forth my strategy that would accomplish that. By not stacking the line, and compounding their impact. you wont get to those sack numbers. But say Raji returns to his top form. And we were add a Suh at DE opposite Daniels. I think we could easily get the 26 sacks I so STUPIDLY want from the front.... Raji's lack of motivation was directly relative to not having help IMO. You want to figure out how much we lost when he decided he didnt want to be here anymore? ignore Raji's pleas. Build the defense around Daniels and Jones. And prepare to have a defense that falls apart under real pressure, every dang time...

You said 12 sacks from ends. When did it become 10? And I'm sure every team would like to just "add a Suh", unfortunately it's not that easy.

The excuses for Raji are unreal. We've gotten far more production out of the last 2 years of Daniels than Raji's last 4. You think Daniels is just a "core" guy but you "don't blame" Raji for not trying?

Raji had help in 2013, because Daniels had a heck of a season in 2013. He was the only one worth anything on the D-line. Raji was the one not helping.

Crazy to downplay the skills of a guy who works nonstop to get better and has been far and away the best piece on our D-line the last couple years, but another guy is lazy, gives up, turns down a huge offer, and you make excuses for him. Unreal.

Find me one 3-4 defense in NFL history that has gotten 6 sacks from their NT and 12 from each starting DE in a single season. Just one defense in NFL history...I'm listening.

 

[adambr2]

Daniels wasnt any good earlier, because he wasnt any good earlier... Young 5th rounders rarely are. He is just now getting good.

Wrong, he has been good for 2 years. He was raw, but ok as a rookie.

 

[mradtke66]

And here you go. Nickel 75% of the time in 2010:

http://packersinsider.com/2011/02/bob-mcginns-final-report-card-2010-2011/

And I quote: "Woodson’s willingness to throw his body around charging from the slot as if he were a 23-year-old LB instead of a 34-year-old CB helped Capers stop the pass because he could use his nickel defense 75% of the time. " (emphasis mine).

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Here we go again with you not being able to understand the general principals of a 3-4 defense.

There were ZERO 3-4 DEs aside of Watt (20.5) who had at least 10 sacks last season and none of them was a free agent.

Who do you think Thompson should have brought in during free agency???

Just read an article on Richard Shelton saying, if Detroit drafts him, and he can play next to Ngata. They will be unstopable. Reminds me of the Williams wall in MN all those years. They dominated games from the DT position.

I have to admit, this is what I would want added to our current roster. A Ngata and a young blue chipper. Granted both are expensive. Shelton wont be available at 30. yadda yadda yadda. I can hear you all already! Anything close to this type of move would do it... Dont say its impossible, because its simply a matter of choice.

Even Suh with his huge contract. He is so dominant, it would be worth it. Raji would be back to beast mode, with Suh and Daniels on either side.

Maybe we save our cash for Darius next year. I think he's better than Suh anyways. Or just as good at least, without the drama of Suhs history with GB.