Sign Mike Daniels?

[GreenBaySlacker]

Why is it you are only right when retelling unverifiable stories about yourself? No one is posting DL in a 3-4 never rush the passer. We are disagreeing with your ridiculous notion that a team needs three all-time greats on the DL for a 3-4 to work. What a ridiculous statement as you continue to misunderstand the 3-4: 3-4 defenses are not short-handed. And the last sentence is so ridiculous, if you have any credibility left with others, you continue to erode it.

And here's a clue: JJ Watt is great because of his physical ability, smarts, instincts, and incredible motor.

You can think im a liar. Theres alot of liars on the internet. But liars generally dont have specific details that fit into timelines. liars dont have a stepping stone of logic that led them to their theory, do they? If Yahoo, and then espn boards didnt shut down taking all my predictions with them, i would have proof... In 10 years i will have more proof for you, if you care to accept it by then.

Pure and simple. JJ watt stats should be our proto-type. Not put on a pedistal, and considered untouchable...

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

So, we evidently agree on one thing but for different reasons...fire Capers...because the things you suggest are not present in his scheme.

We disagree on this too. Capers is a Hall of fame coach. We are lucky he is humble enough, and comfortable enough in himself to be a D-coord here. Had he been given the tallent to succeed, he would have. When given talent, he does succeed. Does he play too conservative? Yes, but that the GB way... Do I want to freak out when we start the prevent zone mid-3rd quarter, yes!!!!! But McCarthy played conservative when the talent wasnt on offense(line, and RBs). That drove me nuts too, but I still liked McCarthys overall strategy and design...Both are learning to be more selectively aggressive, as the roster fills out with better talent.

Overall I thought we did great until the last 5 minutes of the season. Considering our D-line was paper thin all season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Pure and simple. JJ watt stats should be our proto-type. Not put on a pedistal, and considered untouchable...

You're really trying hard making you look like a fool.

Watt is by far the best 3-4 DE in the league and none of the Packers DL is even close to him in talent. If you expect one of our guys to accumulate 20 sacks this season you will be sorely disappointed.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I dont expect any of our guys to do what Watt does. THATS MY POINT!!!!!! Why pay Daniels like a stud, when he produces 1/3 of what a real stud produces?!?!? We need to invest more in D-line, and get a group of difference makers. Even if we have to blow some cap on a bigger free agent! We need a centerpiece!

Again, i think Raji could be that guy... But currently has alot to prove.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I dont expect any of our guys to do what Watt does. THATS MY POINT!!!!!! Why pay Daniels like a stud, when he produces 1/3 of what a real stud produces?!?!? We need to invest more in D-line, and get a group of difference makers. Even if we have to blow some cap on a bigger free agent! We need a centerpiece!

Again, i think Raji could be that guy... But currently has alot to prove.

Here we go again with you not being able to understand the general principals of a 3-4 defense.

There were ZERO 3-4 DEs aside of Watt (20.5) who had at least 10 sacks last season and none of them was a free agent.

Who do you think Thompson should have brought in during free agency???

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I cant understand how everyone thinks Watt is so untouchable. Great, yes. Thats because the coaches give him the go ahead to chase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If he sat in his lane, like you all insist is his job, he wouldnt be DPOY would he?

Uhhmmm...No, Watt had one of the best three defensive seasons in NFL history last season. Not "arguably" top three, literally it was one of the best three seasons ever. I would actually say best ever but I'm not enough of a historian to know about the 60s and earlier so I'll hedge by saying top 3.

JJ Watt is the ONLY PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY WITH TWO SEASONS OF 20+ SACKS. Is he the only player in NFL history that's been turned loose by his coaches?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

a 4-3 DT would be a good place to start... Since most the good 300+ pound, do all D-linemen are 4-3 DTs. They wont come cheap, but one is needed.

Darius, or Suh at End would probabally do exactly what Watt does... Even if Watt is slightly better, Those two would be very close. Poe in the middle, would probabally get Daniels over the 10 sack mark.

Thats another detail you all dont take into consideration. If you dont overload the D-line with talent, it wont tip the scales. When you have 2 (and preferably 3) great D-linemen next to eachother, their impact compounds. Raji would have been the dominant 6 sack Nose I want, if he had some help like say Daniels, and a Suh on both sides... Instead of a 5th round rookie(daniels the last time Raji played), and Old man Pickett. Who was a bump on a log for 3 years prior... Worthy should have helped, but didnt. Harrell too. Its not like Thompson didnt try. He just struck out to many times, and didnt compensate with a free agent filler.

 

[Mondio]

Here we go again with you not being able to understand the general principals of a 3-4 defense.

There were ZERO 3-4 DEs aside of Watt (20.5) who had at least 10 sacks last season and none of them was a free agent.

Who do you think Thompson should have brought in during free agency???

dude are you dense? all we have to do is turn them loose Everyone is on JJ's jock, but really, Houston just knows how to use DE's in a 3/4, just turn them loose baby. Your version of the 3/4 is all wrong, don't you see?

 

[HardRightEdge]

"nothing" was obviously a bad term. I appreciate you picking it out of a long post and dwelling on it... Should I edit to say "nothing, compared to 5 years ago"????????????????????

You're prone to hyperbole. Do yourself another favor. Stop that.

It's not "5 years ago" anyway. It's been a growing trend since 1978 when the 5 yard chuck rule, or "Mel Blunt Rule" if you prefer, was instituted.

The pass:run ratio jumped from 42.30% on 1977 (the year before the rule was instituted) to 52.57% in 1982. In 1995 it hit 57.39%. Compare that to 57.10% in 2011.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...study-the-evolution-nfl-pass-run-ratio/15992/

In 2013, 14 of the 32 teams were below the 1995 average:

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

There has been a modest increase in passing over the 1995 average in the last couple of years which I attribute to the rules protecting receivers.

For perspective, in a 62 snap offensive game, which is typical, a 3% point swing in pass:rush ratio amounts to 2 plays moving from run to pass.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

You're prone to hyperbole. Do yourself another favor. Stop that.

It's not "5 years ago" anyway. It's been a growing trend since 1978 when the 5 yard chuck rule, or "Mel Blunt Rule" if you prefer, was instituted.

The pass:run ratio jumped from 42.30% on 1977 (the year before the rule was instituted) to 52.57% in 1982. In 1995 it hit 57.39%. Compare that to 57.10% in 2011.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...study-the-evolution-nfl-pass-run-ratio/15992/

In 2013, 14 of the 32 teams were below the 1995 average:

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

There has been a modest increase in passing over the 1995 average in the last couple of years which I attribute to the rules protecting receivers.

For perspective, in a 62 snap offensive game, which is typical, a 3% point swing in pass:rush ratio amounts to 2 plays moving from run to pass.

3% is your final answer??????? Thats just silly. There was no such thing as a 5000yd passer until recently (thats when the trend started IMO). Now there are QBs who could , and I believe will eventually hit 6000 yds, in a masterful season. Then look at the last time a RB was picked in the top 10... That would be my cut off on when their value started tanking... All my point of view I guess. But i see trends. Thats what i do.

 

[TJV]

I dont expect any of our guys to do what Watt does. THATS MY POINT!!!!!! Why pay Daniels like a stud, when he produces 1/3 of what a real stud produces?!?!?

According to rotoworld, Watt signed an eight-year, $108.88 million contract. The deal contains $51.8 million guaranteed. [sarcasm] I'll bet Daniels accepts a deal at somewhat less than 1/3 of that guaranteed amount.[/sarcasm]

You appear to desperately need approval yet your persistence in doubling down on your ridiculous expectations of Packers D linemen and misunderstanding of the 3-4 D run counter to your need. Regarding whether you are a liar or exaggerator: Providing specific details that fit into timelines about past events proves nothing. IMO the evidence you are providing on this board in real time provides evidence against your claims on other boards.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Watt makes 13.5 mil/year. divided by 1/3 is 4.5mil/yr which is exactly what I value him at!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a core player. Thats my dang point in the first place.

 

[HardRightEdge]

3% is your final answer??????? Thats just silly. There was no such thing as a 5000yd passer until recently (thats when the trend started IMO). Now there are QBs who could , and I believe will eventually hit 6000 yds, in a masterful season. Then look at the last time a RB was picked in the top 10... That would be my cut off on when their value started tanking... All my point of view I guess. But i see trends. Thats what i do.

Yes, 3% is my answer because it is the answer. It is the approximate spread in pass:run ratio from 1995 to the current day.

The de-emphasis on TBs in the draft in recent years has little to do with scheme. It has to do with the fact that none of the rule changes have seemed to have any affect on RB durability. It remains the highest injury risk position on the field and teams are prone to avoid allocating substantial assets (picks, contracts) to these high risk players.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

you notice you stopped you statistics in 2011. And when did my time line start a major trend change? 2011 was it? care to throw some statistic out for the last 4 years? Or better yet, note each years percentage so you cant hide behind the two years you mentioned...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

a 4-3 DT would be a good place to start... Since most the good 300+ pound, do all D-linemen are 4-3 DTs. They wont come cheap, but one is needed.

Darius, or Suh at End would probabally do exactly what Watt does... Even if Watt is slightly better, Those two would be very close. Poe in the middle, would probabally get Daniels over the 10 sack mark.

Thats another detail you all dont take into consideration. If you dont overload the D-line with talent, it wont tip the scales. When you have 2 (and preferably 3) great D-linemen next to eachother, their impact compounds. Raji would have been the dominant 6 sack Nose I want, if he had some help like say Daniels, and a Suh on both sides... Instead of a 5th round rookie(daniels the last time Raji played), and Old man Pickett. Who was a bump on a log for 3 years prior... Worthy should have helped, but didnt. Harrell too. Its not like Thompson didnt try. He just struck out to many times, and didnt compensate with a free agent filler.

Yeah, let's bring in Suh, Poe, Dareus and some other DL. Don't worry about a thing called salary cap in place, if we're getting into troubles with it we can still trade Rodgers and Matthews for some cheaper DL.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I said one of them. You cant put me down without putting words in my mouth WiMM?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

And yes. I believe we would be a better team with Darius or Poe on our line in place of Mathews or Peppers at LB...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

you notice you stopped you statistics in 2011. And when did my time line start a major trend change? 2011 was it? care to throw some statistic out for the last 4 years? Or better yet, note each years percentage so you cant hide behind the two years you mentioned...

Pass play percentage over last four seasons:

2011: 57.1%
2012: 57.7%
2013: 58.4%
2014: 58.2%

In 1998 that number was at 55.2% so that equals an increase of 3% (or 2 plays per game) over 16 seasons

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I said one of them. You cant put me down without putting words in my mouth WiMM?

But don't you know we have to overload the DL with talent. Let's just go all in with it.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Pass play percentage over last four seasons:

2011: 57.1%
2012: 57.7%
2013: 58.4%
2014: 58.2%

In 1998 that number was at 55.2% so that equals an increase of 3% (or 2 plays per game) over 16 seasons

52% in 1982 and 58% in 2013 isnt 3%. The number is still suprisingly low to me.
Curious what the percentage is on .500+ teams vs .500- teams?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

But don't you know we have to overload the DL with talent. Let's just go all in with it.

You mean like we do with the LBs? We have a 1st and second round pick riding the pine (Perry/Neal). Have two guys making 10+mil/yr too... If we did that to the D-line we would have Poe and Darius maybe. And that would be a bit of an overkill IMO. Especially since I would like to keep Raji, Guion, Daniels, and Jones for a little while longer too.

 

[HardRightEdge]

We disagree on this too. Capers is a Hall of fame coach. We are lucky he is humble enough, and comfortable enough in himself to be a D-coord here. Had he been given the tallent to succeed, he would have. When given talent, he does succeed. Does he play too conservative? Yes, but that the GB way... Do I want to freak out when we start the prevent zone mid-3rd quarter, yes!!!!! But McCarthy played conservative when the talent wasnt on offense(line, and RBs). That drove me nuts too, but I still liked McCarthys overall strategy and design...Both are learning to be more selectively aggressive, as the roster fills out with better talent.

Overall I thought we did great until the last 5 minutes of the season. Considering our D-line was paper thin all season.

My problem with Capers is not limited to the infamous 5 minutes, though it is symptomatic. And my opinion has nothing to do with aggressive vs. conservative. His Packer defenses go into extended lulls and have been prone to playoff collapses. Brittle is the way I describe it. When one talks about defensive identity and culture, that falls to the coaches. There have been meaningful instances of rigid thinking.

I welcome McCarthy's increased involvement in the defense; his idea to move Matthews to the middle you might call thinking outside the box about what's going on inside the box.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Capers first year here he still had remnants of a very good D-line left over from Shermans 4-3. And Capers was a hero (short lived) Then he added Raji /mathews who looked great coming out of the gate........ That first year, even though the 3-4 as in infancy, we did well IMO. It was new and exciting at least, with more QB pressures, from what I could measure...

So what happened?

I'll tell you. We let every D-lineman go and the rest got old. The new replacments stayed injured, or was just not good.

This IMO, is why our defense was to horribly pathetic for a while there. We had a great secondary (that wasnt the problem) We had Mathews, and two other 1st round LBs in Hawk/Barnett. Both respectable at the time... (i dont think they were the problem either)....... Hmmmmmm what could it be???

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

According to rotoworld, Watt signed an eight-year, $108.88 million contract. The deal contains $51.8 million guaranteed. [sarcasm] I'll bet Daniels accepts a deal at somewhat less than 1/3 of that guaranteed amount.[/sarcasm]

You appear to desperately need approval yet your persistence in doubling down on your ridiculous expectations of Packers D linemen and misunderstanding of the 3-4 D run counter to your need. Regarding whether you are a liar or exaggerator: Providing specific details that fit into timelines about past events proves nothing. IMO the evidence you are providing on this board in real time provides evidence against your claims on other boards.

I dont need approval. But when face with a bunch of nit picking bullies, I will fight back.

 

[Carl]

Capers first year here he still had remnants of a very good D-line left over from Shermans 4-3. And Capers was a hero (short lived) Then he added Raji /mathews who looked great coming out of the gate........ That first year, even though the 3-4 as in infancy, we did well IMO. It was new and exciting at least, with more QB pressures, from what I could measure...

So what happened?

I'll tell you. We let every D-lineman go and the rest got old. The new replacments stayed injured, or was just not good.

This IMO, is why our defense was to horribly pathetic for a while there. We had a great secondary (that wasnt the problem) We had Mathews, and two other 1st round LBs in Hawk/Barnett. Both respectable at the time... (i dont think they were the problem either)....... Hmmmmmm what could it be???

Nobody is saying a lack of DL talent hasn't hurt the defense.

We aren't saying at all that the DL are not important in a 3-4. If our line doesn't hold the point and gets whipped, like the first half in Chicago, the defense really struggles. We are just saying they don't need to be dominate.

You literally just brought up yourself an example of a time when our 3-4 was good WITHOUT a DL full of dominate guys.