Sign Mike Daniels?

[mradtke66]

1/2 of JJ watt is the 10 sacks on each end I asked for in the first place.

And now you're under estimating Watt.

Again: other than Watt NO 3-4 ENDS HAD 10 SACKS LAST YEAR. He appears to be a once in a generation-type player. He must be removed from expectation setting.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

No. 1000 times no. You keep repeating you understand how the 3-4 works and then you say things like this which proves you do not.

The 3-4 linemen are supposed to do more heavy lifting--IN. THE. RUN. GAME. That's the idea. Clog up lanes, let the linebackers run free to make the play. Big, huge guys. The premise here is you are willing to give up pass rush skills in exchange for more stout run defense. But even then, modern, 2-gap systems are rare. Much more likely for there to be some kind of hybrid. Maybe the NT 2-gaps but both ends single gap. Or the strong-side end and NT two gaps.

NEXT: Stop confusing our "ends" with 4-3 "ends." We don't have "ends." We have guys who line up in a three point stance. They are more likely "tackles" who just slid over a couple feet. Compare our "ends" to "tackles" in a 4-3.

NEXT: We do sort of have "true ends." They just happened to be in a 2 point stance most of the time. Lots of people call them "outside linebackers," because they drop into coverage sometimes.

FINALLY: Stop thinking of needing "3 linemen to do the job of 4." Again, this demonstrates a lack of understanding of the scheme. The front 5 of both schemes (3 linemen + 2 OLBs vs. 4 linemen + strong OLB) is roughly the same size. The 3-4 just takes some of the size off of the weak defensive end. This turns the strong side end into a tackle and the weak end into an OLB.

Stated another way: we don't play a base 3-4, we play a base 5-2. Our ends just happen to be standing up.

A great D-lineman will be good in the run and pass game. A great D-lineman will force a double team. And a great D-lineman will be right there (10x a year) when the QB has no where to go. I want 3 of them!!! and all these finesse, zone, trickery tactics are much less needed. Now the Finesse, and trickery are for fun, and the zone is only when you blitz both Mathews and Peppers.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Don't you just love it when someone who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about digs in his heels? What's my version? Reality. Not a naive fan's fantasy of pro bowlers lining up at every position.

If I was building the team, I would have Mathews and Peppers money locked up in dominant D-linemen. Because like I said. I believe thats where the 3-4 starts. Thats still the foundation of any defense.

 

[Carl]

If I was building the team, I would have Mathews and Peppers money locked up in dominant D-linemen. Because like I said. I believe thats where the 3-4 starts. Thats still the foundation of any defense.

Pay space eaters more than the pass rushers...

Good thing you're not our GM.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

And now you're under estimating Watt.

Again: other than Watt NO 3-4 ENDS HAD 10 SACKS LAST YEAR. He appears to be a once in a generation-type player. He must be removed from expectation setting.

We need to play on their territory more, and then we will get the sacks. Otherwise its just a tackle, right? How do we play in their territory if we dont get a push in the trenches? How is 3 guys supposed to get a push against 5 or 6 blockers, if they arent great?!?!
Im not under estimating Watt. And what ever excuse you want to make about Watt being special so dont even consider thinking about it. HALF his production is what im asking for. And you say its impossible... And im the bonehead...

The reason Raji quit. and the reason the 3-4 doesnt have (m)any great guys left to get after the run and pass the same. Is because 3-4 teams dont value the D-linemen. They dont make plays for them to get ANY advantage. They dont value them, on your 3-4 code of ethics, apparently... I believe the 3 dominant guys up front will open up the (average) LBs. Thats the difference between my 3-4 and the 3-4 you all seem to believe is the only one out there.....

Line up the all pro-front and pay big. Or draft D-linemen sucessfully and often. Thompson tried the latter, and failed. Im speculating we are finally becoming respectable again. One or two of our big 3 go down, and things get sketchy, AGAIN... I dont care how you fill those 3 spots, as long as there are dominat guys that can flat out beat the guy opposite him on every play, force the double, and still gets a push. Then able to tackle when the play comes to them. The LBs will swarm, and sting from every direction. Raji is 1 stud IMO, with help he will be motivated and be ranked with Darius and Poe near the top of the list of Noses. Heard he's pounding the weights, which makes me excited... Daniels and Guion are respectable and will continue to contribute. Still waiting to see Jones and Boyd put it all together... I expect this group to be much better this year by adding the one dominant guy in the middle(Raji) and it will be great as well as deep, if we add a dominant rookie. Which seem to be a longer shot at #30 or #62. None really jump out at me as must have, unless Shelton slips from where he is ranked in most mocks.

Along with Raji and Guion. We could have gotten Wilfork, or Dockett. Both have been one of these dominant types at one point recently. I think they would contribute on a limited role, and possibly much more down the stretch when greatness shines its brightest. It would have been better if we hadnt let the D-line fall to ruins in the first place. Been rebuilding since the embarassing 2011 collapse. Will see how the Texans and 49ers do with their help instead...

 

[HardRightEdge]

1/2 of JJ watt is the 10 sacks on each end I asked for in the first place.

I'm talking about 20 sacks altogether from all of 3 and 5 techs on the roster, including Peppers and Neal when they play inside. That would be a stunning success.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I'm talking about 20 sacks altogether from all of 3 and 5 techs on the roster, including Peppers and Neal when they play inside. That would be a stunning success.

could you possibly set the bar any lower??? just concede that our 4 guys could equal watt, if we are lucky? Thats goofy.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Pay space eaters more than the pass rushers...

Good thing you're not our GM.

I dare you to call Raji or Poe a space eater to their face

 

[Carl]

We need to play on their territory more, and then we will get the sacks. Otherwise its just a tackle, right? How do we play in their territory if we dont get a push in the trenches? How is 3 guys supposed to get a push against 5 or 6 blockers, if they arent great?!?!
Im not under estimating Watt. And what ever excuse you want to make about Watt being special so dont even consider thinking about it. HALF his production is what im asking for. And you say its impossible... And im the bonehead...

The reason Raji quit. and the reason the 3-4 doesnt have (m)any great guys left to get after the run and pass the same. Is because 3-4 teams dont value the D-linemen. They dont make plays for them to get ANY advantage. They dont value them, on your 3-4 code of ethics, apparently... I believe the 3 dominant guys up front will open up the (average) LBs. Thats the difference between my 3-4 and the 3-4 you all seem to believe is the only one out there.....

Line up the all pro-front and pay big. Or draft D-linemen sucessfully and often. Thompson tried the latter, and failed. Im speculating we are finally becoming respectable again. One or two of our big 3 go down, and things get sketchy, AGAIN... I dont care how you fill those 3 spots, as long as there are dominat guys that can flat out beat the guy opposite him on every play, force the double, and still gets a push. Then able to tackle when the play comes to them. The LBs will swarm, and sting from every direction. Raji is 1 stud IMO, with help he will be motivated and be ranked with Darius and Poe near the top of the list of Noses. Heard he's pounding the weights, which makes me excited... Daniels and Guion are respectable and will continue to contribute. Still waiting to see Jones and Boyd put it all together... I expect this group to be much better this year by adding the one dominant guy in the middle(Raji) and it will be great as well as deep, if we add a dominant rookie. Which seem to be a longer shot at #30 or #62. None really jump out at me as must have, unless Shelton slips from where he is ranked in most mocks.

Along with Raji and Guion. We could have gotten Wilfork, or Dockett. Both have been one of these dominant types at one point recently. I think they would contribute on a limited role, and possibly much more down the stretch when greatness shines its brightest. It would have been better if we hadnt let the D-line fall to ruins in the first place. Been rebuilding since the embarassing 2011 collapse. Will see how the Texans and 49ers do with their help instead...

I dare you to call Raji or Poe a space eater

You're right. Can't say that about Raji. He hasn't taken up any space in the field recently.

 

[HardRightEdge]

could you possibly set the bar any lower??? just concede that our 4 guys could equal watt, if we are lucky? Thats goofy.

Once again, you betray your ignorance of the 3-4 defense, or at least those that don't have J.J. Watt who happens to be a once in a generation player.

Are you like into Oprah or something? One of those "wish it...open yourself up to the universe...and it will surely come to you" people?

 

[PikeBadger]

A great D-lineman will be good in the run and pass game. A great D-lineman will force a double team. And a great D-lineman will be right there (10x a year) when the QB has no where to go. I want 3 of them!!! and all these finesse, zone, trickery tactics are much less needed. Now the Finesse, and trickery are for fun, and the zone is only when you blitz both Mathews and Peppers.

Lol, when you draft between 20-32 every year, you're extremely fortunate if you get one of those guys. A little bit of reality may be in order here.

 

[mradtke66]

If I was building the team, I would have Mathews and Peppers money locked up in dominant D-linemen. Because like I said. I believe thats where the 3-4 starts.

And once again, you prove how little you know. What you believe is irrelevant. Especially when it's wrong.,

In the 3-4, your OLBs are the super-stars. The designated pass rushers. The glory guys. Just like 4-3 ends. Which is funny, because they body types, responsibilities, and even contracts are about the same. . .

 

[tynimiller]

Eli...I have an idea why don't we trade up in the first to ensure we get Gurley...then trade Gurley/Mathews/Peppers/Rodgers for Watt....makes sense to me

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'm not here to pile on. I'll simply say that if anyone wants 10 sacks out of their 3-4 defensive ends then the 3-4 defense is an impossible defense to play. There was only ONE 3-4 DE that had 10+ sacks last season and his name is JJ Watt and he's already one of the best players in NFL history. If your defense is going to count on having TWO of the top 10-15 defensive players in NFL history both playing in their prime, then the defensive scheme is terrible.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

This reminds me of the few years I fought with everybody about how the passing game would open up the run game. How the traditional "Must establish the run" mentality, lowers the potential of an offense............ You have no idea how much crap i took from every direction... Within 5 years its a passing league, and RBs value is nothing. FBs are becoming extinct.........

Now you jokers are going to gang up on me, and strong arm me into thinking theres no other way for a 3-4 to work, other than for the D-linemen to push forward, and wait for the play to come to them without any value on rushing the passer?!?!? Just hold their lane, right? Good greif. Like watching McCarthy run Ahman Green put his head down, and run into Cliftons left rear cheek 10 times a game. Torture watching this antique mentality in todays game.

The 3-4 is so complex, it transcends. Its not a 3-4, its a moving, calculated, diverse defense. Its true the emphasis is obviously put on the LBs. The concept is 1 less DT and one more ILB. Which in my strong opinion, would put an emphasis on the remaining 3 being great, to hold the front, short handed. Then you have a 1 LB advantage to be able to strike that 4th pass rusher from any of 4 positions..... Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. This is how I come to my conclusions. Through basic logic, and math.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I cant understand how everyone thinks Watt is so untouchable. Great, yes. Thats because the coaches give him the go ahead to chase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If he sat in his lane, like you all insist is his job, he wouldnt be DPOY would he?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I cant understand how everyone thinks Watt is so untouchable. Great, yes. Thats because the coaches give him the go ahead to chase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If he sat in his lane, like you all insist is his job, he wouldnt be DPOY would he?

You think Sean Richardson is a beast but don´t understand that J.J. Watt is a once-in-a-generation talent??? There´s really no point in talking to you anymore.

 

[HardRightEdge]

...RBs value is nothing... .

Really? I better go check my notes on that.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

You think Sean Richardson is a beast but don´t understand that J.J. Watt is a once-in-a-generation talent??? There´s really no point in talking to you anymore.

Get off JJ's jock please.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Really? I better go check my notes on that.

When Eddie Lacy slips to late 2nd round.... When Gordon, who is the best statistical RB since Barry sanders, is ranked late 1st round, Id say, you better theck them notes good.

Yes, I would say the value of RBs is tanking. Has been, and still is. FBs are literally becoming expendable. And only a handful of RB carry the load anymore...

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Eddie will be one of the handful in the league to get paid. We are lucky to have found a valuable RB.

 

[TJV]

This reminds me of the few years I fought with everybody about how the passing game would open up the run game. How the traditional "Must establish the run" mentality, lowers the potential of an offense............ You have no idea how much crap i took from every direction... Within 5 years its a passing league, and RBs value is nothing. FBs are becoming extinct.........

Why is it you are only right when retelling unverifiable stories about yourself?

Now you jokers are going to gang up on me, and strong arm me into thinking theres no other way for a 3-4 to work, other than for the D-linemen to push forward, and wait for the play to come to them without any value on rushing the passer?!?!? Just hold their lane, right? Good greif. Like watching McCarthy run Ahman Green put his head down, and run into Cliftons left rear cheek 10 times a game. Torture watching this antique mentality in todays game.

No one is posting DL in a 3-4 never rush the passer. We are disagreeing with your ridiculous notion that a team needs three all-time greats on the DL for a 3-4 to work.

The 3-4 is so complex, it transcends. Its not a 3-4, its a moving, calculated, diverse defense. Its true the emphasis is obviously put on the LBs. The concept is 1 less DT and one more ILB. Which in my strong opinion, would put an emphasis on the remaining 3 being great, to hold the front, short handed. Then you have a 1 LB advantage to be able to strike that 4th pass rusher from any of 4 positions..... Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. This is how I come to my conclusions. Through basic logic, and math.

What a ridiculous statement as you continue to misunderstand the 3-4: 3-4 defenses are not short-handed. And the last sentence is so ridiculous, if you have any credibility left with others, you continue to erode it.

And here's a clue: JJ Watt is great because of his physical ability, smarts, instincts, and incredible motor.

 

[HardRightEdge]

When Eddie Lacy slips to late 2nd round.... When Gordon, who is the best statistical RB since Barry sanders, is ranked late 1st round, Id say, you better theck them notes good.

Yes, I would say the value of RBs is tanking. Has been, and still is. FBs are literally becoming expendable. And only a handful of RB carry the load anymore...

So you think 2nd. round is "nothing"? You better check your notes. While the classic FB in an endangered species, the position is not...many teams opt for a TE-type playing the position, or "H-back" in the current lexicon. He better be able to lead block and pass block just as a FB must do.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

So you think 2nd. round is "nothing"? You better check your notes. While the classic FB in an endangered species, the position is not...many teams opt for a TE-type playing the position, or "H-back" in the current lexicon. He better be able to lead block and pass block just as a FB must do.

"nothing" was obviously a bad term. I appreciate you picking it out of a long post and dwelling on it... Should I edit to say "nothing, compared to 5 years ago"????????????????????

 

[HardRightEdge]

I cant understand how everyone thinks Watt is so untouchable. Great, yes. Thats because the coaches give him the go ahead to chase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If he sat in his lane, like you all insist is his job, he wouldnt be DPOY would he?

So, we evidently agree on one thing but for different reasons...fire Capers...because the things you suggest are not present in his scheme.