Savage, Dillon, Gary = Collins, Starks, Zombo...but BETTER

PackinMSP

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So I have always personally LOVED the Savage pick. I think he has the potential to be our best FS since Nick Collins...but Collins was an unbelievable talent in terms of raw athleticism...but I think Darnell can and will be "close".

It seems like the "pieces" with Z'Darius like Matthews and J'aire like Woodson, minus the interceptions but definitely more of a "lockdown/shutdown" type.

Dillon I think could be the next Henry... a bigger version of Eddie Lacey....so not just "big and a grinder/power" guy, but also a Henry type that can just abuse people. Better than James Starks too, who was also a bruiser

Rashon Gary is FINALLY producing and I gotta say "hats off" and well deserved, he has busted his a## and is WAYYYY better this year than he was last year

Thoughts?
 

thequick12

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Funny I was just thinking I wish savage had been given 36 I thought he should have been when he was drafted or 21 becas you knew he was gonna be good...but yeah dillion is poised for a starks like post season run certainly especially if they wrap up home field next week. And Gary is a player gonna be fun to watch him and zadarius dominate for the next few years
 
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PackinMSP

PackinMSP

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Oh yeah and Tonyan is WAYYY better than Finley I think... my boy, about to get a Tonyan jersey now that Nelson and Kumerow are no longer on the team
 

gbgary

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Oh yeah and Tonyan is WAYYY better than Finley I think... my boy, about to get a Tonyan jersey now that Nelson and Kumerow are no longer on the team
nah. too soon to say that. finley was veeery good. it's really too soon on all these equivalencies but fun to talk about. dillon seems more lacy-like than starks. savage = collins? let's hope (minus the injury). zombo's had a long career. i hope gary stays on the upward trajectory.
 
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PackinMSP

PackinMSP

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nah. too soon to say that. finley was veeery good. it's really too soon on all these equivalencies but fun to talk about. dillon seems more lacy-like than starks. savage = collins? let's hope (minus the injury). zombo's had a long career. i hope gary stays on the upward trajectory.

Actually you may be right about Finley. I was looking at this Catch Rate/% and 2011 his "best year" overall statistically was actually his WORST YEAR in terms of Catch Rate/%... otherwise he caught 70%+ of his targets...which is pretty damn good

Ironically 2011 he had his best "overall" statistical season and the LOWEST catch rate/% (bc he had drops too that year)

I don't know, I have ALWAYS liked the Savage pick... Nick Collins was REALLY REALLY good for sure when he got it going, and I mentioned that
 

Sunshinepacker

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Lot to be seen before I'll sign into that. Collins definitely better than Savage so far, Gary looks better than Zombo, and I'm gonna need more than one game before declaring Dillon better than Starks.
 

lambeaulambo

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Well, hmmm...Jermike vs Tonyan - idk...I'd put Tonyan in the realm of Chmura without the blocking ability. Savage while growing which is great, is not Collins but may be a bit like LeRoy Butler. Gary is the player I am looking to see grow into a force..right now his bull rush seems to be morphing into form...exciting times.
 

Poppa San

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Well, hmmm...Jermike vs Tonyan - idk...I'd put Tonyan in the realm of Chmura without the blocking ability. Savage while growing which is great, is not Collins but may be a bit like LeRoy Butler. Gary is the player I am looking to see grow into a force..right now his bull rush seems to be morphing into form...exciting times.
Savage has a way to go to catch Butler. I think he was at least on par with Collins. Savage is still closer to Sharper.
 

longtimefan

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Savage has a way to go to catch Butler. I think he was at least on par with Collins. Savage is still closer to Sharper.
Wssp discussed savage and collins today

People need to listen to them

Butler and Ellerson (yeah Ellerson from 80s) so what?

He has knowledge and has great insight.

Wssp 1250 am milwaukee
 

tynimiller

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If speaking to how they project - I think the only one that has locked in a fair right in the discussion is Savage...Gary is very close, and I'm a Dillon fanboy, but let's pump the brakes.

The sample size for Savage being special is the largest, but I'd argue the grading out of the smaller sample size of Gary's work last year and this year is better. There is a solid chance both of these guys are Pro Bowl discussion type guys by their 4th seasons.

While Dillon could get some serious snaps in the post-season while at Green Bay - 2021 is the year for Dillon to show just what he could be. The glimpses are good, actually great...but they're just glimpses presently.
 

Sunshinepacker

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If speaking to how they project - I think the only one that has locked in a fair right in the discussion is Savage...Gary is very close, and I'm a Dillon fanboy, but let's pump the brakes.

The sample size for Savage being special is the largest, but I'd argue the grading out of the smaller sample size of Gary's work last year and this year is better. There is a solid chance both of these guys are Pro Bowl discussion type guys by their 4th seasons.

While Dillon could get some serious snaps in the post-season while at Green Bay - 2021 is the year for Dillon to show just what he could be. The glimpses are good, actually great...but they're just glimpses presently.

Nahh, Gary the only one cause Zombo isn't a very high bar to cross. Collins was an elite free safety; Savage might get there but he's not quite to that other yet.
 

tynimiller

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Nahh, Gary the only one cause Zombo isn't a very high bar to cross. Collins was an elite free safety; Savage might get there but he's not quite to that other yet.

I'm not stating he is Collins, I don't think personally he ever will be. What I was saying is he has the largest sample size to garner discussion of such things. Honestly, none have laid down enough tape for me to lock in an opinion of what they will be, which is much more appropriate than attempting to discuss what they are.
 

tynimiller

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FTR I think Collins was as good if not better at his position that Woodson was...but Woodson was a better defensive player if that makes sense. Tells you how highly I think of Collins.
 

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What we ought to remember with the 2010 unit, that team was riddled with injuries. Jerimichael Finley was lost for the year and Ryan Grant went down in game 1. In addition we lost Morgan Burnett by week 4 or 5. With this team we really haven't lost any major contributors for the season, knock on wood. Of course it seemed as though the defense really took off following Burnett's injury, Capers was forced to play more to the strengths of his personnel and Nick Collins started playing a lot of single high. Peprah's coverage failings were hidden by playing him up near the LoS which also helped cover up the weaknesses of Hawk and Bishop in coverage.

Defensively that 2010 unit was a genuinely dominant outfit and I have to rate Hawk and Bishop as better than Barnes Kirksey and Martin. At OLB I think that Matthews in 2010 was a better more disruptive player than Zadarius and far more versatile... but Gary and Preston are both better players than Zombo, who was a solid journeyman but thats it.

In the defensive backfield Collins was obviously a top flight defense changer, the kind of guy that makes everyone else on the field better with him by playing Ed Reed style center field. Woodson was still in DPoY form and Williams had turned into an elite lockdown corner and was playing the best football of his career. I think Alexander is as good as Williams was and while King is very good in press coverage he lacks Woodson's off ball ability to disrupt offenses and make plays. Sam Shields was better than either Sullivan Jackson.

Up front Raji looked like he'd be a franchise NT and defensive cog that would eventually find his way to Canton. His production and usage were unreal, the guy never came off the field and still put up 6 sacks on the year. He put an exclamation point on the season when he dropped into coverage in the final minutes of the NFCG like a jumbo sized linebacker and deftly picked off Caleb Haney before high stepping into the end zone, he then danced. Pickett was another venerable and reliable inside rush defender and Johnny Jolly was an able contributor as well. With this current unit Kenny Clark hasn't had quite the usage that Raji had but when healthy he's been just as disruptive. I dont think that either Lowry or Lancaster are as stout against the run as Pickett and Jolly, but with Keke you have an extra interior pass rusher creating disruption from the inside. I give the current unit a slight edge.

In comparison I'd say that the 2010 unit was much better in coverage and generally had a better back 6 or 7 depending on the alignment. I'd also credit them for being more disciplined and cohesive as a group whereas this present group seems more mistake prone. It comes down to Pettine versus Capers IMO, and with this defense when Pettine schemes in an aggressive fashion the unit looks markedly better than when we play back or in coverage. We have at its core a pressure oriented defense, Pettine unfortunately hasn't always schemed to the units strengths. See Sunday night's tilt versus last weeks game against the Lions.


EDIT:

Caveat: I dont fault Pettine for occasionally playing in a more coverage oriented fashion, sometimes it makes sense to drop 8 especially when an offense starts leaving more blockers in or starts making quick throws. The extra defenders in the throwing lanes creates an extra chance for turnovers if the opposing quarterback is looking for hot reads. It's more when we play back throughout a game that this fan becomes frustrated. Take Stafford for instance, he is if you let him set his feet a very good quarterback with a lot of arm talent and all things considered better than his production suggests, he is after all on the Lions. But with Stafford you should make pressure your priority. Give him 3.5-4 seconds to throw all game long and he can and will pick most defenses apart.
 
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easyk83

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It's a small sample size but whereas Starks offered some keep defenses honest ability Dillon looks like he could be a game breaker. What he did and kept doing to the Titans defense even after they adjusted to him was the sort of thing that gives a Defensive Coordinator nightmares. They got to the point where they were daring Aaron Rodgers to throw with bunched defensive fronts and 8 man boxes and Dillon kept running over through and even around them. See that 30 yard touchdown run when Dillons quick feet and legit acceleration left two Titans DBs tackling air and and grass.
 

GreenNGold_81

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Was the intention of Deguara to open holes for Dillon? If so, our run game in December in the cold would have been unreal.
 
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PackinMSP

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We had been looking for guys like the ones I mentioned.

Raji... took FOREVER to find someone like Clark to replace him

Starks was good for the run but I liked Lacy better....Dillon will probably be WAYYYY better than both. After watching him, his ceiling looks WAYYYYYY higher. He is also bigger than Lacy

J'Aire, no explanation needed here but great to have someone who can basically 'take away" half the field lol It has taken forever for someone like him. Even if his ceiling is only Al Harris at is prime that would be good. We haven't had any good corners in a long *** time.

Savage, I have always loved the pick. It has taken 2 years for him to show promise, but that is fine. I don't think he will ever have the natural athleticism or speed that Collins had but it will be close and if he can be ~4-5 interception type of guy, that is all we need.

Gary will be huge as we need someone to take pressure off Z'Darius consistently and Preston Smith may not be that guy long term (contractual and I just don't think his ceiling is that high). I see Z'Darius as a consistent 10-15 sack guy and Preston more like a 6-8 guy who is pretty overpaid IMHO and I don't think he wil lbe a guy that can cosistently get double digit sacks to take pressure off Z'Darius.
 

tynimiller

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So with Dillon exploding last week does this make Jamaal less part of the offense going forward?

Personally I don't think so. Jamaal is still our best blocking RB on the roster, offers more shiftiness than AJ does yet and no doubt is more familiar with the playbook to a point as well. For me this legit gives teams 3 backs they have to prepare for and three backs for MLF to have plays for. Wouldn't shock me a bit to see Dillon not get a snap rest of the season, 6 a game or 10 a game.

We have that versatility with RB IMO being a position we have 3 viable league starters in the room.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I'm fine with any comparisons made here....as long as the New Lombardi Trophy for the 2020 season still looks the same in the Packer Trophy case. Otherwise, it is still just a team that only has Super Bowl rings on the finger of just 2 players, Rodgers and Crosby. :coffee:
 
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PackinMSP

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Interesting how the "team" overall and "supporting cast" may soon be as good as the 07-11 teams if everything works out

Although I don't think we are close to a Driver/Jennings/Jones/Nelson/Cobb(if you want to throw him in) WR depth chart

Overall, the D has looked much better than before. I think two REALLY, REALLY bad games against the Vikings and getting killed by the Bucs (not entirely the D's fault) and the 2nd half meltdown at the Colts have skewed the stats a bit

Still, in terms of yards, they are a Top 10 defense.
 
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Lot to be seen before I'll sign into that. Collins definitely better than Savage so far, Gary looks better than Zombo, and I'm gonna need more than one game before declaring Dillon better than Starks.

You have to remember that it took Collins until his fourth season with the Packers to perform at an elite level.
 

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