Rodgers against top defenses

[Patriotplayer90]

I don't agree with this... Have you been watching the Patriots? What are they on 3 or 4 string left tackle. Two rookies. Brady got sacked like 5 times in the first half at dallas. They fixed it and it didn't happen again in the second half.

Rodgers has always looked over his checkdowns, if i remember right deon lewis had a game with like 9 catches. Rodgers refuses to that.

The Pats offensive line is not better than the Packers, their wide receivers are not better than the Packers. It's their quarterback that is making better decisions than the packers.

Didn't Brady recently have a game where his receivers dropped like 13+ passes and they won. DAMN.

Gronk isn't better than the Packer's receivers? When has Rodgers ever had a target like him?

 

[PackerDNA]

Heh, when has anyone had a target like Gronk?
Gotta love the guy; a happy go lucky beast.

 

[easyk83]

Which one won the super bowl and which one **** the bed in the playoffs once again?

vs Seattle in the playoffs... About as equal as a comparison can be given only 2 weeks apart.

Brady -

37-50 328 yards 4TD 2INT

Rodgers-
19-34 178 yards 1TD 2INT (This is just plain sad playoff line for the MVP)

Packers got 5 turnovers and still couldn't put up a win. And people somehow blame a backup TE on a onside kick. Maybe we should take a closer look at the 20 million dollar man. Packers should have scored 45+ points that game. That game is 100 percent on Rodgers.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rodgers... But I hate how people come to his defense when really there is nothing to defend. One good run, yes it was awesome... but the fact remains the DEFENSE held two of those 4 wins. Picks by Tramon in Philly or we lose cause we stopped scoring. And in Chicago We didn't score after 12 minutes left in the second quarter on offense. 42 scoreless minutes by the offense to end that game.

Rodgers does deserve blame but the offensive scheme, spread iso doesn't help against top bump and run teams.

 

[easyk83]

Gronk isn't better than the Packer's receivers? When has Rodgers ever had a target like him?

Nelson healthy is comparable. Jordy can be locked down all game and next thing you know he just scorched Darelle Revis for a 43 yard score.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Nelson healthy is comparable. Jordy can be locked down all game and next thing you know he just scorched Darelle Revis for a 43 yard score.

No, he's not. A good receiver and physical mismatch for most CBs, yes, but he is the beneficiary of the best QB throwing balls to him. He's more comparable to Eric Decker, a 2nd-3rd option on his teams, than to Julio Jones, C. Johnson, Brandon Marshall, D. Thomas, or others people put him in the category of, let alone Gronk.

 

[easyk83]

No, he's not. A good receiver and physical mismatch for most CBs, yes, but he is the beneficiary of the best QB throwing balls to him. He's more comparable to Eric Decker, a 2nd-3rd option on his teams, than to Julio Jones, C. Johnson, Brandon Marshall, D. Thomas, or others people put him in the category of, let alone Gronk.

None of those guys work a sideline like Nelson or run the double move like him either. What does Gronk have a bum throwing him the ball?

 

[Patriotplayer90]

None of those guys work a sideline like Nelson or run the double move like him either. What does Gronk have a bum throwing him the ball?

I don't see Nelson as somebody who can take the offense of a great QB to the next level like Gronk, as much as being a great piece of it. Look at the video game stats Brady put up with Moss and Gronk healthy vs. his performance without them. The guy is one of the best, but that speaks volumes. Rodgers is still putting up an outstanding TD/INT ratio.

 

[Shawnsta3]

Which one won the super bowl and which one **** the bed in the playoffs once again?

vs Seattle in the playoffs... About as equal as a comparison can be given only 2 weeks apart.

Brady -

37-50 328 yards 4TD 2INT

Rodgers-
19-34 178 yards 1TD 2INT (This is just plain sad playoff line for the MVP)

Packers got 5 turnovers and still couldn't put up a win. And people somehow blame a backup TE on a onside kick. Maybe we should take a closer look at the 20 million dollar man. Packers should have scored 45+ points that game. That game is 100 percent on Rodgers.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rodgers... But I hate how people come to his defense when really there is nothing to defend. One good run, yes it was awesome... but the fact remains the DEFENSE held two of those 4 wins. Picks by Tramon in Philly or we lose cause we stopped scoring. And in Chicago We didn't score after 12 minutes left in the second quarter on offense. 42 scoreless minutes by the offense to end that game.

I don't think we're in disagreement, though it does take a team, not just a QB to win a championship.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I don't think we're in disagreement, though it does take a team, not just a QB to win a championship.

You're wrong, Brady caught the game-sealing INT.

 

[Carl]

Nothing is going to change schematically, just look at all the player quotes here:

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...emselves/f1d41b58-d008-44a2-9f52-7f827d2cef8f

Aaron Rodgers

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: “I missed some throws I usually hit. I missed a few that I’m used to hitting, which is disappointing. I have to do a better job of hitting the ones that you should hit.”

Receiver Randall Cobb

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: “I feel like it’s my fault. I feel like it’s on me. I have to make more plays when I get opportunities. I’m going to go out and I’m going to play better. I’m going to do more for this team.”

James Jones

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: “It’s me polishing my route-running, me getting better and getting open and doing what I’ve been doing since I got here. I didn’t do a good job. I have to get better. I’ll be working on my craft this week.”

Davante Adams

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: “I’m going to run my routes and get open. That’s what I’ve got to do.”

So apparently it was all about Aaron missing throws and the receivers not making plays and not running polished routes.

Honestly expect the players to blame their coaches?

 

[Carl]

Which one won the super bowl and which one **** the bed in the playoffs once again?

vs Seattle in the playoffs... About as equal as a comparison can be given only 2 weeks apart.

Brady -

37-50 328 yards 4TD 2INT

Rodgers-
19-34 178 yards 1TD 2INT (This is just plain sad playoff line for the MVP)

Packers got 5 turnovers and still couldn't put up a win. And people somehow blame a backup TE on a onside kick. Maybe we should take a closer look at the 20 million dollar man. Packers should have scored 45+ points that game. That game is 100 percent on Rodgers.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rodgers... But I hate how people come to his defense when really there is nothing to defend. One good run, yes it was awesome... but the fact remains the DEFENSE held two of those 4 wins. Picks by Tramon in Philly or we lose cause we stopped scoring. And in Chicago We didn't score after 12 minutes left in the second quarter on offense. 42 scoreless minutes by the offense to end that game.

Rodgers also couldn't move without a limp in the NFC Championship. One of his strengths has always been extending plays. Not a fair comparison when Brady was healthy.

 

[Carl]

The stats against top defenses are interesting. In isolation though, without a comparison to other top QBs vs. top defenses or other QBs against the same defenses, the stats don't mean much.

 

[sschind]

Nothing is going to change schematically, just look at all the player quotes here:

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...emselves/f1d41b58-d008-44a2-9f52-7f827d2cef8f

Aaron Rodgers

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: “I missed some throws I usually hit. I missed a few that I’m used to hitting, which is disappointing. I have to do a better job of hitting the ones that you should hit.”

Receiver Randall Cobb

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: “I feel like it’s my fault. I feel like it’s on me. I have to make more plays when I get opportunities. I’m going to go out and I’m going to play better. I’m going to do more for this team.”

James Jones

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: “It’s me polishing my route-running, me getting better and getting open and doing what I’ve been doing since I got here. I didn’t do a good job. I have to get better. I’ll be working on my craft this week.”

Davante Adams

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: “I’m going to run my routes and get open. That’s what I’ve got to do.”

So apparently it was all about Aaron missing throws and the receivers not making plays and not running polished routes.

I wouldn't say it was all about that but to each of the above quoted players that's what it was about. If those four guys believe what they just said and do something about it there will be no stopping this team offensively. We pretty much already know that.

The key to the whole thing is if they really believe what they just said or if they are just saying the right things. The other key is being able to do something about it but we have already seen that they can so I don't see that as an issue.

 

[ExpatPacker]

Rodgers also couldn't move without a limp in the NFC Championship. One of his strengths has always been extending plays. Not a fair comparison when Brady was healthy.

Yes people do forget that Rodgers had a torn calf in last year's playoffs. That doesn't completely excuse his bad performance against Seattle, but I'm sure a healthy Rodgers would have done better.

 

[ExpatPacker]

Gronk isn't better than the Packer's receivers? When has Rodgers ever had a target like him?

Gronk may be the single most uncoverable target in the NFL right now.

 

[ls1bob]

As bad as Rodgers and the team looked Sunday night you can believe ,he(Rodgers),the coaches and the rest of the team got a sledge hammer beside the head wake up call. The talent is there but teams have figured out how to stop what we do well. After all the negative headlines this week(which have been read by players and coaches I promise you) there will be a subtle working in of new schemes and players on both sides will step up. I think Aaron has a good bounce back game where HE adjusts also and takes what the D gives him instead of looking for the big play.

 

[PackerDNA]

Yes people do forget that Rodgers had a torn calf in last year's playoffs. That doesn't completely excuse his bad performance against Seattle, but I'm sure a healthy Rodgers would have done better.

It also made things easier for their defense; they knew his limitations, and could adjust accordingly.

 

[Un4GivN]

You're wrong, Brady caught the game-sealing INT.

This doesn't even make sense given the information that was given.

Brady -

37-50 328 yards 4TD 2INT

Rodgers-
19-34 178 yards 1TD 2INT (This is just plain sad playoff line for the MVP)

Our defense gave Rodgers 5 turnovers, not 1 as the patriots defense had.

Rodgers also couldn't move without a limp in the NFC Championship. One of his strengths has always been extending plays. Not a fair comparison when Brady was healthy.

Not true... And I will explain below

Yes people do forget that Rodgers had a torn calf in last year's playoffs. That doesn't completely excuse his bad performance against Seattle, but I'm sure a healthy Rodgers would have done better.

People also forget that a week before that Rodgers went 24/35 316 yards 3Td 0intsvs Dallas. And all the praise that he was getting. So you are telling me a week later he could do ANYTHING even with 5 extra possessions because of an injury he did just fine on the week before?

Yes he lacked some mobility. But soon enough he will lack mobility due to age. Does the mean we should expect games like that all the time? Brady is slower than most offensive linemen.

I honestly feel like Packer fans will make any type of excuse possible for Rodgers. (Ohh its Gronk, it is scheme, its injury, its one bad game) Fact remains he hasn't been good against good defenses when you compare him to the best. And the numbers can stare people in face and it gets deflected to someone elses fault.

If Rodgers is that good he'd be in the meeting rooms telling them what needs to be done to be successful, creating schemes in order to exploit the other team. They talk about Brady doing that right up till game time.

The overall opinion i have of Rodgers is, the man is accurate as can be. Against weaker opponents he will absolutely light them up. But against tougher opponents he shuts down easily, gets easily frustrated, starts hanging onto the ball too long not wanting to hurt his QBR. We didn't even try in the second half in Denver. It was depressing to watch.

You don't need the number 1 quaterback in the league to win the super bowl, but you do need one that doesn't give up the first time he gets popped in the face.

 

[PackerDNA]

Well, some food for thought there, Un4GivN. In my post above, I had forgotten about Rodgers performance the week before vs Dallas.

 

[easyk83]

This doesn't even make sense given the information that was given.

Brady -

37-50 328 yards 4TD 2INT

Rodgers-
19-34 178 yards 1TD 2INT (This is just plain sad playoff line for the MVP)

Our defense gave Rodgers 5 turnovers, not 1 as the patriots defense had.



Not true... And I will explain below



People also forget that a week before that Rodgers went 24/35 316 yards 3Td 0intsvs Dallas. And all the praise that he was getting. So you are telling me a week later he could do ANYTHING even with 5 extra possessions because of an injury he did just fine on the week before?

Yes he lacked some mobility. But soon enough he will lack mobility due to age. Does the mean we should expect games like that all the time? Brady is slower than most offensive linemen.

I honestly feel like Packer fans will make any type of excuse possible for Rodgers. (Ohh its Gronk, it is scheme, its injury, its one bad game) Fact remains he hasn't been good against good defenses when you compare him to the best. And the numbers can stare people in face and it gets deflected to someone elses fault.

If Rodgers is that good he'd be in the meeting rooms telling them what needs to be done to be successful, creating schemes in order to exploit the other team. They talk about Brady doing that right up till game time.

The overall opinion i have of Rodgers is, the man is accurate as can be. Against weaker opponents he will absolutely light them up. But against tougher opponents he shuts down easily, gets easily frustrated, starts hanging onto the ball too long not wanting to hurt his QBR. We didn't even try in the second half in Denver. It was depressing to watch.

You don't need the number 1 quaterback in the league to win the super bowl, but you do need one that doesn't give up the first time he gets popped in the face.

IMHO it had more to do with matchups and scheme. Against Seattle the Packers trotted out their vaunted receivers and spread ISO passing attack and Seattle simply matched up and shut it down. Belicheck, a far superior coach, refused to let Seattle matchup like that and crafted a game plan that would prevent Seattle to mauling his receivers.

Rodgers has, throughout his career been great against superior pass rushes and zone defenses. He has, however struggled against bump n run cover teams... this might be more the result of scheme than anything else.

 

[Un4GivN]

IMHO it had more to do with matchups and scheme. Against Seattle the Packers trotted out their vaunted receivers and spread ISO passing attack and Seattle simply matched up and shut it down. Belicheck, a far superior coach, refused to let Seattle matchup like that and crafted a game plan that would prevent Seattle to mauling his receivers.

You can have your opinion but it's not right Players make plays.... He did just fine with the scheme the week before. He just **** the bed vs a good defense on the road as he always does. The worst 13 games of his career came against good defenses on the road.

Rodgers has, throughout his career been great against superior pass rushes and zone defenses. He has, however struggled against bump n run cover teams... this might be more the result of scheme than anything else.

I guarantee you there is no data to support this. He has a losing record against good defenses. And worse then that his stats are pure garbage in many of those games. In fact has had TONS of trouble against even decently good defenses on the road. (AKA Detroit).

 

[easyk83]

I don't see Nelson as somebody who can take the offense of a great QB to the next level like Gronk, as much as being a great piece of it. Look at the video game stats Brady put up with Moss and Gronk healthy vs. his performance without them. The guy is one of the best, but that speaks volumes. Rodgers is still putting up an outstanding TD/INT ratio.

Nelson didn't take the Packer offense to the next level last year? We haven't seen a tremendous decline since his absence? His ability to stretch the field is elite. His possession ability, ability to make acrobatic catches is elite, and while he might not be elite in the slot I rate him above Jones and Thomas in there. Yes Jordy Nelson is definitely comparable to those other players and he exceeds them in certain categories.

 

[Un4GivN]

Nelson didn't take the Packer offense to the next level last year? We haven't seen a tremendous decline since his absence? His ability to stretch the field is elite. His possession ability, ability to make acrobatic catches is elite, and while he might not be elite in the slot I rate him above Jones and Thomas in there. Yes Jordy Nelson is definitely comparable to those other players and he exceeds them in certain categories.

Ya I agree with this, people quickly forget what Jordy meant to the offense since they haven't seen him this year. They also like to ride gronk. Gronk had some bad games this year, has been shut out of games in the past. He is without a doubt the best TE in football. But he isn't the cure all end all of offenses.

 

[easyk83]

You can have your opinion but it's not right Players make plays.... He did just fine with the scheme the week before. He just **** the bed vs a good defense on the road as he always does. The worst 13 games of his career came against good defenses on the road.




I guarantee you there is no data to support this. He has a losing record against good defenses. And worse then that his stats are pure garbage in many of those games. In fact has had TONS of trouble against even decently good defenses on the road. (AKA Detroit).

You're conflating two different types of defenses. Which great zone cover defenses has Rodgers struggled with? I seem to remember him lighting up an outstanding Steelers Defense in a Super Bowl. He's also generally played very well against Detroit's better zone schemes, and has even scorched them a couple of times. There's a clear cut difference between his play against top ranked zone teams and top ranked man cover teams.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You want to compare people in his league under the same circumstance, another example. @ Buffalo 2014 Tom goes for 27-37-361 4TD and 0INT. Aaron didn't get off the bus. Tom Brady shows up when it means the most, and has his best games against the best opponents. Does he lose? Sure but that is the outlier not the norm. Rodgers is getting to the point that if we play an elite defense, either our defense will win us the game. Or we are going to lose.

Once again you´re hand picking a single game Brady had better stats than Rodgers to prove your point while completely ignoring Brady´s six career regular season games in which he threw four interceptions (Rodgers hasn´t a single one) or his three playoff games with three interceptions (none for Rodgers again). BTW Brady has had two career games under 100 passing yards while attempting more than 20 passes as well.

The stats against top defenses are interesting. In isolation though, without a comparison to other top QBs vs. top defenses or other QBs against the same defenses, the stats don't mean much.

Here´s the passer rating of active Super Bowl winning QBs against top five defenses (based on opponents passer rating since 2008):

Brees 97.3
Wilson 88.0
Brady 87.7
Roethlisberger 83.3
Peyton 83.3
Rodgers 82.3
Flacco 67.9
Eli 66.6

While Rodgers has a significant dropoff compared to facing mediocre or bad defenses Brees is really the only QB with a considerable higher rating than him.