Rodgers against top defenses

[easyk83]

Here's a question, is this receiver group really worse than what Brett Favre had to work with in 2007?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here's a question, is this receiver group really worse than what Brett Favre had to work with in 2007?

I don´t think the Packers receiving corps is a bad one to begin with. There are two things that have to happen for the passing game to become productive again. First of all with the WRs not being able to get open in isolated one-on-one battles the coaching staff has to come up with a scheme to help them separate from corners and Rodgers has to start taking more risks throwing receivers open.

 

[easyk83]

I think the lack of depth is a further indictment of MMs scheme. We went to more of a spread ISO attack back when we had a multitude of talented pass catchers who were also experienced. But with the precision required from the receivers it's probably much harder to replace injured players and much tougher to bring young guys into the system. Schemes that get guys open tend to require less finesse from a technique standpoint than this mano a mano business. Too much Pittsburgh macho and not enough of the San Francisco smarts.

 

[PackerDNA]

I don´t think the Packers receiving corps is a bad one to begin with. There are two things that have to happen for the passing game to become productive again. First of all with the WRs not being able to get open in isolated one-on-one battles the coaching staff has to come up with a scheme to help them separate from corners and Rodgers has to start taking more risks throwing receivers open.

I don't think the receiving unit is a bad one; I don't think it's a great one ,either. With Nelson, one of the best.

 

[TJV]

Here's a question, is this receiver group really worse than what Brett Favre had to work with in 2007?

IMO yes it is. Without Nelson, really worse.

 

[easyk83]

IMO yes it is. Without Nelson, really worse.

Driver was still a good player, but he was already fading and Greg Jennings was a talented second year man. I'm not sure that Driver was better than Randall Cobb or Greg better than James Jones at this point in his career. Or for that matter rookie James Jones better than Davante Adams. Were the players better or was the scheme better?

 

[TJV]

Driver was still a good player, but he was already fading and Greg Jennings was a talented second year man. I'm not sure that Driver was better than Randall Cobb or Greg better than James Jones at this point in his career. Or for that matter rookie James Jones better than Davante Adams. Were the players better or was the scheme better?

At this point in the season IMO the players were better. Jennings was the outside/deep threat missing from the current group. And IMO Driver was better than this season's Randall Cobb at least so far. Adams hasn't been much of a factor so far either. Of course he's been injured but so far he's had 10 catches for 100 yards and no TDs. In 2007 Jennings scored 12 TDs that regular season and averaged 17.4 ypc. Driver only caught 2 TDs but had 82 catches for over 1,000 yards for 12.8 ypc. The rookie Jones only had 47 catches but averaged 14.4 ypc. Obviously Nelson's absence has had a domino effect, but Cobb hasn't looked nearly as dynamic this season as he did last season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe I missed this in the thread, but one thing to keep in mind is that winning on the Road in the NFL isn't easy, especially against a solid defense like what we saw in Denver. Rodgers relies on a lot of hard counts and audibles and these are a lot tougher to pull off in a noisy hostile environment. My concern with Rodgers when he is faced with this situation is that he kind of goes into what I call "frustration mode". The look on his face and his body language tells the story. Once he is in that mode, he is jittery in the pocket and unlike his predecessor Favre, almost looks like he is playing not to make a mistake.

How do you cure this? A running game. The Packers have got to figure that out, especially on the road. Easier said then done, but a running game is going to open up the passing game and maybe bring that confident cocky look back on Rodgers face. But right now, he seems more bewildered then confident, especially on the road.

 

[sschind]

Rodgers doesn't have the weapons he had a couple of years ago. The Packers have lost Jennings, Driver, Finley, and now Nelson. His receivers are not open! No qb can succeed like that.

Not even Aaron Rodgers? And here I thought he made all those WRs.

 

[easyk83]

Maybe I missed this in the thread, but one thing to keep in mind is that winning on the Road in the NFL isn't easy, especially against a solid defense like what we saw in Denver. Rodgers relies on a lot of hard counts and audibles and these are a lot tougher to pull off in a noisy hostile environment. My concern with Rodgers when he is faced with this situation is that he kind of goes into what I call "frustration mode". The look on his face and his body language tells the story. Once he is in that mode, he is jittery in the pocket and unlike his predecessor Favre, almost looks like he is playing not to make a mistake.

How do you cure this? A running game. The Packers have got to figure that out, especially on the road. Easier said then done, but a running game is going to open up the passing game and maybe bring that confident cocky look back on Rodgers face. But right now, he seems more bewildered then confident, especially on the road.

Because it's not just an on the road problem, lately it's been a home problem as well and I'd say its been an at home problem for years now. We have a schematic problem against good bump n run cover teams and one that can and should be corrected.

 

[TJV]

I listened to some of Green & Gold Today yesterday and either Wilde or Bill Johnson said a caller previously made the point that the Packers struggle on the road against great defenses with good QBs. Their reaction was 'well duh'... That said, the Packers point differential on the road has been a problem for a while.

 

[easyk83]

At this point in the season IMO the players were better. Jennings was the outside/deep threat missing from the current group. And IMO Driver was better than this season's Randall Cobb at least so far. Adams hasn't been much of a factor so far either. Of course he's been injured but so far he's had 10 catches for 100 yards and no TDs. In 2007 Jennings scored 12 TDs that regular season and averaged 17.4 ypc. Driver only caught 2 TDs but had 82 catches for over 1,000 yards for 12.8 ypc. The rookie Jones only had 47 catches but averaged 14.4 ypc. Obviously Nelson's absence has had a domino effect, but Cobb hasn't looked nearly as dynamic this season as he did last season.

But does production reflect only the player's individual ability or does it often reflect scheme as well? Does it also reflect differences in which teams play the Packers?

 

[PackerDNA]

All the questions and doubts we've heard about Rodgers here and elsewhere were on display Sunday night.
-Happy feet. He was bouncing around like a jackrabbit on speed.
-Hanging onto the ball too long. Like my Grandma used to say,"S**t or get off the pot".
-A continuation of above; passing up the short open man looking for the big play.
-Rattled and flustered pretty quickly.
-Unrelated, because of his consistent and lethal accuracy, but a point to be made from the other night; a terrible night passing the ball. Overthrows, underthrows, badly off target. I don't know if I've ever seen him have that poor of a game throwing.
Aberration or flaws? We'll see.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Because it's not just an on the road problem, lately it's been a home problem as well and I'd say its been an at home problem for years now. We have a schematic problem against good bump n run cover teams and one that can and should be corrected.

The Packers haven´t played a ton of elite defenses at home over the last few years during the regular season. The offense struggled against the Niners in the 2013 playoffs but I mostly blame that on Rodgers not being 100% and rusty. The unit did a nice job vs. the Seahawks but obviously struggled against the Rams starting a streak of underwhelming performances.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

All the questions and doubts we've heard about Rodgers here and elsewhere were on display Sunday night.
-Happy feet. He was bouncing around like a jackrabbit on speed.
-Hanging onto the ball too long. Like my Grandma used to say,"S**t or get off the pot".
-A continuation of above; passing up the short open man looking for the big play.
-Rattled and flustered pretty quickly.
-Unrelated, because of his consistent and lethal accuracy, but a point to be made from the other night; a terrible night passing the ball. Overthrows, underthrows, badly off target. I don't know if I've ever seen him have that poor of a game throwing.
Aberration or flaws? We'll see.

I don´t disagree with anything you said about Rodgers game against the Broncos but I expect that game to be a complete aberration to his performances the rest of the way.

 

[Half Empty]

Because it's not just an on the road problem, lately it's been a home problem as well and I'd say its been an at home problem for years now. We have a schematic problem against good bump n run cover teams and one that can and should be corrected.

For those of us who view every reasonable season as Super Bowl or Bust, we have the magical 2010 (three road wins) year followed by 2011 (home loss), 2012 (home win, road loss), 2013 (home loss), and 2014 (home win, road loss).

 

[easyk83]

The Packers haven´t played a ton of elite defenses at home over the last few years during the regular season. The offense struggled against the Niners in the 2013 playoffs but I mostly blame that on Rodgers not being 100% and rusty. The unit did a nice job vs. the Seahawks but obviously struggled against the Rams starting a streak of underwhelming performances.

Weren't we soundly beaten in a home game against the 49ers back in 2012. I'm still pounding the drum of schematic changes, it's something Ive been carping about for years now.

 

[easyk83]

For those of us who view every reasonable season as Super Bowl or Bust, we have the magical 2010 (three road wins) year followed by 2011 (home loss), 2012 (home win, road loss), 2013 (home loss), and 2014 (home win, road loss).

I don't see it that way, but I feel like persistent unaddressed problems keep showing up and keep hurting our chances. There's only so much you can do with personnel deficiencies, but when year after year we see bump and run cover teams abuse our spread iso passing attack and simple schematic changes are not applied well that's hard to swallow for some of us. I'm not saying we should ditch spread iso concepts because they work well against zone teams, but we do need to make more effort to scheme guys open.

 

[Half Empty]

I don't see it that way, but I feel like persistent unaddressed problems keep showing up and keep hurting our chances. There's only so much you can do with personnel deficiencies, but when year after year we see bump and run cover teams abuse our spread iso passing attack and simple schematic changes are not applied well that's hard to swallow for some of us. I'm not saying we should ditch spread iso concepts because they work well against zone teams, but we do need to make more effort to scheme guys open.

Was just trying to bolster your contention about the Pack's performance on the at home, as well as on the road.

 

[PackerDNA]

I don´t disagree with anything you said about Rodgers game against the Broncos but I expect that game to be a complete aberration to his performances the rest of the way.

I also expect him to rebound and be much better the rest of the way. The question for me is next time he runs into a team/situation like the other night, will he handle it more like Johnny Unitas or a confused second rate scrub?

 

[easyk83]

I also expect him to rebound and be much better the rest of the way. The question for me is next time he runs into a team/situation like the other night, will he handle it more like Johnny Unitas or a confused second rate scrub?

Well Johnny Unitas was always a rhythm quarterback too. If you could frustrate him he looked human, but even Lombardi thought him unstoppable once he got hot.

 

[PackerDNA]

I remember Johnny U.. You could stop him now and then, But I never saw him flustered or panicky. The man was a killer with ice water for blood.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I don't see it that way, but I feel like persistent unaddressed problems keep showing up and keep hurting our chances. There's only so much you can do with personnel deficiencies, but when year after year we see bump and run cover teams abuse our spread iso passing attack and simple schematic changes are not applied well that's hard to swallow for some of us. I'm not saying we should ditch spread iso concepts because they work well against zone teams, but we do need to make more effort to scheme guys open.

A 77 yard passing game from Rodgers will get your attention. His comment about lack of separation was a cry for help. Surely they finally realize something most be done.

 

[easyk83]

I remember Johnny U.. You could stop him now and then, But I never saw him flustered or panicky. The man was a killer with ice water for blood.

They didn't focus on players faces like they do now, back then it was just about football.

EDIT: There's also a generational difference, back then men were not to show emotion. They were supposed to be numb and heavy drinking problems were preferable to showing that you had feelings.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Weren't we soundly beaten in a home game against the 49ers back in 2012.

Yeah, the Niners handled our offense with ease as well, went only back until 2013 to find out which elite defenses we played at home.

The question for me is next time he runs into a team/situation like the other night, will he handle it more like Johnny Unitas or a confused second rate scrub?

I don't expect him to throw for less than 80 yards ever again playing a full game. He will struggle with this year's receiving corps against good defenses as long as the coaches don't change some things schematically.