"Realistic" WR Discussions...

[thisisnate]

Someone needs to explain to me why they think D Parker is any good

young, great measurables, been able to put up 600-700 yards on a trash team, i'd take that as a #2 over anything we have currently
you have to consider these suggestions not in a vacuum, but in light of what we have on the team currently

 

[OldSchool101]

young, great measurables, been able to put up 600-700 yards on a trash team, i'd take that as a #2 over anything we have currently
you have to consider these suggestions not in a vacuum, but in light of what we have on the team currently

I think you hit the nail on the head. If he’s a 600+ yard guy in Miami? You’d almost expect that production to go up by default tripping into GB.
He’s in the prime of his career and I think he could very easily get into that 800-1000 yard range with #12 slinging it and D.Adams commanding the #1 CB on his side.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

I think you hit the nail on the head. If he’s a 600+ yard guy in Miami? You’d almost expect that production to go up by default tripping into GB.
He’s in the prime of his career and I think he could very easily get into that 800-1000 yard range with #12 slinging it and D.Adams commanding the #1 CB on his side.

High expectations for him this year is a wet dream. He needs to learn the offense and everything. For 2019 MVS is better on this offense than Parker. Long term he may be better.

 

[OldSchool101]

High expectations for him this year is a wet dream. He needs to learn the offense and everything. For 2019 MVS is better on this offense than Parker. Long term he may be better.

That’s nonsense. He’s a starter within 2-3 weeks of stepping off the plane. Then he’s the definitive #2 guy within a month of that (I’m being cautious because of the new system but probably he’d be our #1 until Adams was back) This isn’t a Rookie mid round draft pick or a UDFA in his sophomore year. He’d pass MVS on the depth chart after his first big game, which would very likely be within a month.
MVS has promise, but he needs more polishing and he’s absolutely not the dominant 2nd year #2 WR you insinuate. Your kind of thinking at WR is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place.

 

[RRyder]

I think you hit the nail on the head. If he’s a 600+ yard guy in Miami? You’d almost expect that production to go up by default tripping into GB.
He’s in the prime of his career and I think he could very easily get into that 800-1000 yard range with #12 slinging it and D.Adams commanding the #1 CB on his side.

Yeah because bad teams never force feed a player.

This is the same argument that people used to use for propping up bad players in the NBA. "Well he averaged 25 points a game with nobody else on the roster he must be good"..... No even bad teams score points (or gain yards in this case) and someone is going to get them.

Honestly his production probably goes down in GB with most of the targets going to Adams

 

[RRyder]

That’s nonsense. He’s a starter within 2-3 weeks of stepping off the plane. Then he’s the definitive #2 guy within a month of that (I’m being cautious because of the new system but probably he’d be our #1 until Adams was back) This isn’t a Rookie mid round draft pick or a UDFA in his sophomore year. He’d pass MVS on the depth chart after his first big game, which would very likely be within a month.
MVS has promise, but he needs more polishing and he’s absolutely not the dominant 2nd year #2 WR you insinuate. Your kind of thinking at WR is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place.

This statement can be applied to Parker as well extremely easily

Parker hasnt been a good receiver since he entered the league. Dont let draft position fool you. Could he still develop? Yes of course. But he isnt nearly the player you are implying

 

[Dantés]

Yeah because bad teams never force feed a player.

This is the same argument that people used to use for propping up bad players in the NBA. "Well he averaged 25 points a game with nobody else on the roster he must be good"..... No even bad teams score points (or gain yards in this case) and someone is going to get them.

Honestly his production probably goes down in GB with most of the targets going to Adams

I was thinking something similar.

I'm not at all a Davante Parker expert. But just generally, statistics on a bad team don't necessarily mean more on a good team.

 

[OldSchool101]

This statement can be applied to Parker as well extremely easily

Parker hasnt been a good receiver since he entered the league. Dont let draft position fool you. Could he still develop? Yes of course. But he isnt nearly the player you are implying

develop? Develop into what? That’s very vague.

 

[OldSchool101]

I was thinking something similar.

I'm not at all a Davante Parker expert. But just generally, statistics on a bad team don't necessarily mean more on a good team.

Not in general. We’re not talking general, we’re talking a specific player and a specific team. If it’s an argument to contrary someone perspective, use an example. Otherwise it’s just a rhetorical statement with no evidence to support said statement. Site a player example of that or it sounds nitpicking someone’s idea. Anyone can do that.

Take a look at the QBs who have been throwing to Parker and their stats. Then compare it to Rodgers (you likely already know his stats). It doesn’t take a leap of faith to say GB could get more out of his services.

Rodgers has proven to make receivers more productive, that’s not opinion that’s a fact.
JJ is a great example because he was here.. he left.., he came back.. etc..
Take a minute. Look at his stats in GB
Then look at his stats in Oakland.
Then look at his stats in GB.

That’s a direct reflection of Rodgers n Co

 

[Mondio]

but JJ didn't have an off year, he actually had at least as productive of a year with a rookie QB as he had with Rodgers. YPC was the only thing off, which is understandable with a rookie QB.

 

[Dantés]

Not in general. We’re not talking general, we’re talking a specific player and a specific team. If it’s an argument to contrary someone perspective, use an example. Otherwise it’s just a rhetorical statement with no evidence to support said statement. Site a player example of that or it sounds nitpicking someone’s idea. Anyone can do that.

Take a look at the QBs who have been throwing to Parker and their stats. Then compare it to Rodgers (you likely already know his stats). It doesn’t take a leap of faith to say GB could get more out of his services.

Rodgers has proven to make receivers more productive, that’s not opinion that’s a fact.
JJ is a great example because he was here.. he left.., he came back.. etc..
Take a minute. Look at his stats in GB
Then look at his stats in Oakland.
Then look at his stats in GB.

That’s a direct reflection of Rodgers n Co

Allen Hurns would be a good example. He accrued 1600 yards as a receiver for a
Jags team that went a collective 8-24 over two seasons.

On a much better Dallas roster, he was an after thought.

But I am talking generally, because I don't have specifics. I haven't watched Parker specifically since he was playing with Bridgewater at Louisville. And I seriously doubt many Packers fans have seen much of him either.

So generally, a player moving from a bad team to a good team doesn't necessarily boost that player's stats. It might! But you can't treat it like a formula. It doesn't work that way.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not crapping on anyone's idea. I'm just agreeing with Ryder that we don't know for certain that Parker would immediately be a more productive player in Green Bay simply because Miami is bad.

 

[Dantés]

but JJ didn't have an off year, he actually had at least as productive of a year with a rookie QB as he had with Rodgers. YPC was the only thing off, which is understandable with a rookie QB.

Especially a rookie QB who is still allergic to throwing dowbfield.

 

[thisisnate]

without adams, our wr group is just bad
i feel some are overestimating what a player would have to do to work to the #2 spot
people were anointing allen lazard our new #2 after last game
that should give a pretty good idea of the state of our group right now

 

[RRyder]

develop? Develop into what? That’s very vague.

What's so vague about that?

 

[RRyder]

but JJ didn't have an off year, he actually had at least as productive of a year with a rookie QB as he had with Rodgers. YPC was the only thing off, which is understandable with a rookie QB.

Was going to say the same thing. JJ had a career year in catches and yards with the Raiders. His ypc sucked but as you mentioned its understandable.

I'm just saying on a bad team guys are going to get force fed the ball. It doesnt automatically translate when other options are available.

If someone (oldschool) were to present the # of targets Parker recieves per game versus a catch percentage against catchable balls for him and then compare to the theoretical number of targets he'd receive in GB I'm willing to listen.

However until then I havent heard a compelling case on why hes actually good other then he has measurables and was drafted high

 

[RRyder]

without adams, our wr group is just bad
i feel some are overestimating what a player would have to do to work to the #2 spot
people were anointing allen lazard our new #2 after last game
that should give a pretty good idea of the state of our group right now

That people over react?

 

[OldSchool101]

Allen Hurns would be a good example.

Hurns is an example, but not a good one IMO. He never Played for a HOF level QB. Show me a receiver that was successful with Brady, Brees or the like (comparable to Rodgers) that went to a team with a bottom 5 QB (Miami) and improved because they were “forced” as argued above.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not crapping on anyone's idea. I'm just agreeing with Ryder that we don't know for certain that Parker would immediately be a more productive player in Green Bay simply because Miami is bad.

I agree with that. We don’t know anything for certain.. period do we? About anything for that matter so that’s not a great debate for not going after a #2.

But speaking of players options we have to project don’t we? I don’t see anything wrong with a reasonable projection. You can disagree with my projection for a #2 type or think like Ryder and say “Parker hasnt been a good receiver since he entered the league” but his opinion doesn’t eliminate the absolute fact that his stats translated into the Packers Offense would lift it. He doesn’t even need to improve that’s the funny thing. I don’t have to project if he’s be better than our current starting options.

As an example, Show me one more current active Packer starter not named Adams that clearly outperforms Parker. That’s rhetorical to make a point because you can’t. I don’t even need to win an argument that he’d be much improved... because he’s already better than any WR starting this Sunday. If he improved? He’d be much better than anyone except Adams.
Enough of my idea. I’m fine with the debate in Parker enough of him it’s not like he’s my relative! Let’s just assume my guy Parker is completely absurd and an off the wall idea. Who is your choice and what specifically would get him to GB and why would a team want to part ways with your choice?

Was going to say the same thing. JJ had a career year in catches and yards with the Raiders.

BS RRyder. He had career lows!!
Luckily we don’t need to believe that crap! Did you think nobody would look? That’s a total falsehood. Thankfully We have the internet!! James Jones has more yards in his Rookie campaign with 47 catches than he did in Oakland with 73 catches! He lost over 150 yards in production going to Oakland. Then he came back to Rodgers and increased that over 200 yards! You’ve lost credibility with me in that argument because it’s exactly the opposite of what you said about JJ having career highs while at Oakland.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneJa04.htm

You can dislike a player all you want and I respect that. I don’t respect trying to fib to support your claim. btw. Who’s your choice for this thread topic? and specifically what would you give up for said player?? I’m asking because I went back and noticed your reluctance to make a specific player claim.. other than to dissect everyone else’s ideas while being overly critical.

 

[Pkrjones]

That people over react?

...or that MVS, Kumerow, Shepherd either couldn't get open OR catch the damn ball? Lazard entered the game and the offense instantly started to move downfield. "Anointing" Lazard to #2 was purely based on game-time production.

MVS has been invisible when Adams isn't there to draw double-coverage. Kumerow has 4 receptions on 6 targets over the 3 games he's been healthy/active. Shepherd has 1 reception on 2 targets with the drop leading to a 10 point swing against the Packers.

Rodgers NEEDS someone to throw to that'll get open AND catch the ball. Go ahead and call Lazard a #6 WR if it helps you sleep better, but if AR is comfortable and confident throwing to him he, IMHO, is a #2 or #3 right now.

 

[RRyder]

Hurns is an example, but not a good one IMO. He never Played for a HOF level QB. Show me a receiver that was successful with Brady, Brees or the like (comparable to Rodgers) that went to a team with a bottom 5 QB (Miami) and improved because they were “forced” as argued above.
I agree with that. We don’t know anything for certain.. period do we? About anything for that matter so that’s not a great debate for not going after a #2.

But speaking of players options we have to project don’t we? I don’t see anything wrong with a reasonable projection. You can disagree with my projection for a #2 type or think like Ryder and say “Parker hasnt been a good receiver since he entered the league” but his opinion doesn’t eliminate the absolute fact that his stats translated into the Packers Offense would lift it. He doesn’t even need to improve that’s the funny thing. I don’t have to project if he’s be better than our current starting options.

As an example, Show me one more current active Packer starter not named Adams that clearly outperforms Parker. That’s rhetorical to make a point because you can’t. I don’t even need to win an argument that he’d be much improved... because he’s already better than any WR starting this Sunday. If he improved? He’d be much better than anyone except Adams.


BS RRyder. He had career lows!!
Luckily we don’t need to believe that crap! Did you think nobody would look? That’s a total falsehood. Thankfully We have the internet!! James Jones has more yards in his Rookie campaign with 47 catches than he did in Oakland with 73 catches! He lost over 150 yards in production going to Oakland. Then he came back to Rodgers and increased that over 200 yards! You’ve lost credibility with me in that argument. It’s like your grasping wildly to save face.. but your information doesn’t align with facts.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneJa04.htm

You can dislike a player all you want and I respect that. I don’t respect trying to fib to support your claim. btw. Who’s your choice for this thread topic? and specifically what would you give up for said player??

Fib??? I was mistaken on career high in yards and was correct on career high in catches. Seek help dude. I'm not the one grasping at straws with that kind of reaction

(also his target to reception ratio looks about the same for the previous 2 years before leaving but then in his return stint plummets although that can be attributed to age but still works against how you said how he played better when he went BACK to Rodgers)

To answer your last question probably Sanders but at this point in the season ANY receiver brought in is going to have a less then desired impact

 

[RRyder]

...or that MVS, Kumerow, Shepherd either couldn't get open OR catch the damn ball? Lazard entered the game and the offense instantly started to move downfield. "Anointing" Lazard to #2 was purely based on game-time production.

MVS has been invisible when Adams isn't there to draw double-coverage. Kumerow has 4 receptions on 6 targets over the 3 games he's been healthy/active. Shepherd has 1 reception on 2 targets with the drop leading to a 10 point swing against the Packers.

Rodgers NEEDS someone to throw to that'll get open AND catch the ball. Go ahead and call Lazard a #6 WR if it helps you sleep better, but if AR is comfortable and confident throwing to him he, IMHO, is a #2 o #3 right now.

These are some nice statements based on 4 catches that prove my point. Thank you

 

[OldSchool101]

Fib??? I was mistaken on career high in yards and was correct on career high in catches. Seek help dude. I'm not the one grasping at straws with that kind of reaction

Your being critical isn’t helping our situation in GB.
Who is your guy?? What are the specifics? Quit dancing around with frivolous arguments. You are now GM. Pick your player.

 

[OldSchool101]

...or that MVS, Kumerow, Shepherd either couldn't get open OR catch the damn ball? Lazard entered the game and the offense instantly started to move downfield. "Anointing" Lazard to #2 was purely based on game-time production.

MVS has been invisible when Adams isn't there to draw double-coverage. Kumerow has 4 receptions on 6 targets over the 3 games he's been healthy/active. Shepherd has 1 reception on 2 targets with the drop leading to a 10 point swing against the Packers.

Rodgers NEEDS someone to throw to that'll get open AND catch the ball. Go ahead and call Lazard a #6 WR if it helps you sleep better, but if AR is comfortable and confident throwing to him he, IMHO, is a #2 or #3 right now.

I agree. I like Lazard as much as the next guy. Exciting player. But this is like banging our head against a wall as our solution at WR #2.

There’s 2 types of posters in here. Those of us that want to move forward by going after a fix. .. and those of them that want to be critical of every option presented our of fear I suppose (the weak and easy position). But being critical doesn’t fix our #1 biggest weakness. I just want to see more ideas with reasonable arguments, not these posters dancing around wasting precious time. The deadline is almost here. I’m starting to feel like I’m on one of those business partner reality shows and my parter is slack jaw and time is running out!! Lol.

 

[Dantés]

Your being critical isn’t helping our situation in GB.
Who is your guy?? What are the specifics? Quit dancing around with frivolous arguments. You are now GM. Pick your player.

Wait, are you saying our ideas can help the actual team?

 

[OldSchool101]

Wait, are you saying our ideas can help the actual team?

Peer pressure is a terrible thing to waste

You know this roster as good as the actual team! Now pick your player!!!

 

[RRyder]

Your being critical isn’t helping our situation in GB.
Who is your guy?? What are the specifics? Quit dancing around with frivolous arguments. You are now GM. Pick your player.

I answered the question in an edit that I'm guessing I wasn't quick enough to get in before quoted