Ranking The Top 5 Coaches Who Get Fired (Fairly) This Year

[AmishMafia]

Geez, Amish, while we have definitely disagreed on several topics in the past you should have realized by now that I'm not a complete retard.

The Packers defense has done extremely well compared to the league average against opponents not featuring a top 10 scoring offense during Capers tenure while giving up significantly more points than other teams facing elite offenses (I will provide numbers later in the day).

That makes me believe that the defensive scheme is actually fine as long as the unit isn't overwhelmed by having to line up against an opponent with far superior players.

The unit not having enough talent is solely on Thompson.

All the stats you post, look exactly like you would expect if the coaching was poor. Low talent and poor coaching will look the same from a statistical POV.

What I have seen on the field is poor communication in the secondary (although this has significantly improved lately); players out of position; defensive game plans that don't seem smart; and a lack of in-game adjustments. I have seen the same mistakes made repeatedly. These are not talent issues but coaching problems.

I can point to a few games where I think the coaching was brilliant. I can point to many more where I watched wondering, "what the hell are they thinking?"

To me, the issue is mostly coaching and some talent issues.

 

[Mondio]

Miscommunication seems to plague this team in the defensive backfield. it makes things look a lot worse than they are from a talent standpoint. are these players just stupid? I don't think they are that dumb myself. I think they're well within the range that the gameplan and coaching can account for it and still put a quality product on the field. Though last year it seemed half the guys couldn't practice and could barely stay on the field for a half only to leave again, so it was a difficult situation.

 

[Dantés]

There have been misses on defense for sure, but on offense as well. I disagree on talent development. There was a stretch where it was sparse. I think the game planning has been poor is the biggest contributed to poor performance

Not to say that there have been zero mistakes on offense, but only a couple total whiffs on par with guys like the four I mentioned previously.

So I would say the drafting is a factor, development is a factor, and scheme as well. Capers' system is incredibly complex by all accounts.

 

[AmishMafia]

Not to say that there have been zero mistakes on offense, but only a couple total whiffs on par with guys like the four I mentioned previously.

So I would say the drafting is a factor, development is a factor, and scheme as well. Capers' system is incredibly complex by all accounts.

My theory is that when he is new, he teaches the basics from the ground up. Subsequent years he adds on. Then, the young pups miss out on a whole season learning the fundamentals. That explains why Capers does well early and then the defense drops in the rankings. Also explains why young players don't readily develop in capers system.

I would rank the problems like this:

1. Defensive game planning/adjustments
2. Player development
3. Talent/drafting

I don't think scheme is an issue at all. I really like our scheme

 

[PackAttack12]

All the stats you post, look exactly like you would expect if the coaching was poor. Low talent and poor coaching will look the same from a statistical POV.

What I have seen on the field is poor communication in the secondary (although this has significantly improved lately); players out of position; defensive game plans that don't seem smart; and a lack of in-game adjustments. I have seen the same mistakes made repeatedly. These are not talent issues but coaching problems.

I can point to a few games where I think the coaching was brilliant. I can point to many more where I watched wondering, "what the hell are they thinking?"

To me, the issue is mostly coaching and some talent issues.

There's no doubt in my mind the coaching on the defensive side of the ball has left more to be desired.

 

[rodell330]

I'm going to leave Hue Jackson off of this list because I don't think if he gets fired out of Cleveland there's going to be a way to say it was "fair" given that mess. Plus who knows what the NFL's historic worst owner of all time in Jed York is going to do since he should be locked up in an insane asylum, so if he only gives KS one year there like he did Chip Kelly, that's definitely not going to be fair either. But any one other of these coaches I think are going to be given a big old boot out the door if they don't have winning seasons or drastic improvement immediately.

1. John Fox - hottest seat
2. Chuck Pagano - a real close second. I rank him above Todd Bowles because the Jets are in the Pats division whereas the Colts have the best QB in the AFC South and have no more excuses to go 8-8.
3. Todd Bowles - I don't think he'll have to go on a winning rampage, but he's going to need to improve to something like 8-8 to stick around another year I think.
4. Marvin Lewis - one more losing season here or making the playoffs and going one and done and this overrated nutjob coach is going to get canned immediately.
5. Sean Payton - one more 7-9 season and that good grace is erased in NO.

On the outer edge not far behind I think are Ron Rivera if the Panthers don't live up to expectations this year, and Jay Gruden. Nearing the bubble but not likely to get fired just yet are John Harbaugh and Bruce Arians. Arians being the least likely since I'd expect the Cardinals will get rid of Carson Palmer first if they do bad this year and have him rear up another QB.

If Marvin Lewis hasn't been fired by now he's not going to be fired. The most overrated coach in the NFL.

 

[Dantés]

My theory is that when he is new, he teaches the basics from the ground up. Subsequent years he adds on. Then, the young pups miss out on a whole season learning the fundamentals. That explains why Capers does well early and then the defense drops in the rankings. Also explains why young players don't readily develop in capers system.

I would rank the problems like this:

1. Defensive game planning/adjustments
2. Player development
3. Talent/drafting

I don't think scheme is an issue at all. I really like our scheme

I think there's also a case to be made that the diminishing returns are partly due to league familiarity with his system. It's heavily predicated on deception. Once teams catch on to the tendencies, there's less of a surprise factor.

 

[Sky King]

If Marvin Lewis hasn't been fired by now he's not going to be fired. The most overrated coach in the NFL.

He can simply transition to a new career as a warden or parole officer.

 

[PikeBadger]

There's no doubt in my mind the coaching on the defensive side of the ball has left more to be desired.

I remain unconvinced that Trgovac is a good defensive line coach.

 

[PikeBadger]

He can simply transition to a new career as a warden or parole officer.

Isn't he already?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

All the stats you post, look exactly like you would expect if the coaching was poor. Low talent and poor coaching will look the same from a statistical POV.

I don't agree with that statement as in my opinion the numbers would look worse against opponents outside of the top 10 as well if coaching was mainly to blame for the unit's shortcomings.

What I have seen on the field is poor communication in the secondary (although this has significantly improved lately); players out of position; defensive game plans that don't seem smart; and a lack of in-game adjustments. I have seen the same mistakes made repeatedly. These are not talent issues but coaching problems.

To me, the issue is mostly coaching and some talent issues.

Well, it's impossible to know for sure whether the defense has been struggling because of a lack of talent or coaching issues as long as the Packers hold on to both Thompson and Capers.

Even if you're right about coaching being mostly to blame Thompson is at least partly to blame for holding on to the coaching staff although the unit hasn't performed well over the last six seasons.

 

[AmishMafia]

I don't agree with that statement as in my opinion the numbers would look worse against opponents outside of the top 10 as well if coaching was mainly to blame for the unit's shortcomings.

You win or lose based on talent and coaching. A team outside of the top 10 has either limitations in coaching, talent, or both. A teams defensive ranking is based on some function of talent and coaching.

Say capers is 15th in coaching and the Packers defensive talent is 5th best. You can probably beat the #2 DC with the 25th ranked talent or the or the 25th DC with the #2 talent. But you will probably be outplayed by the #5 DC with the 15th talent.

What I am saying is that it is difficult to look at stats and know if being outperformed is a function of coaching or talent.

Well, it's impossible to know for sure whether the defense has been struggling because of a lack of talent or coaching issues as long as the Packers hold on to both Thompson and Capers.

Even if you're right about coaching being mostly to blame Thompson is at least partly to blame for holding on to the coaching staff although the unit hasn't performed well over the last six seasons.

On both those points I will agree. Ultimately TT is responsible. If it means cutting MM because he refuses to dump Capers then that is what he should do. I like MM, but he is too loyal to his subordinates sometimes.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Ahem ... let's not forget here Dom Capers is not a head coach and there's a lot of other threads out there about him and Ted Thompson's future.

Having said that, if there's a defensive guy head coaching who does get fired this year (other than Rob or Rex), I'd be open to bringing him on board in the event we have a healthy or at least fairly healthy squad on that side of the ball, but we still are playing awful.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Geez, Amish, while we have definitely disagreed on several topics in the past you should have realized by now that I'm not a complete retard.

The Packers defense has done extremely well compared to the league average against opponents not featuring a top 10 scoring offense during Capers tenure while giving up significantly more points than other teams facing elite offenses (I will provide numbers later in the day).

That makes me believe that the defensive scheme is actually fine as long as the unit isn't overwhelmed by having to line up against an opponent with far superior players.

The unit not having enough talent is solely on Thompson.



It seems a lot of fans using injuries as an excuse don't realize that there's absolutely no chance the Packers stay fully healthy this season or any other for that matter.

Therefore it's extremely important to have quality depth pn the roster. Unfortunately Thompson hasn't provided that at several positions over the last few years with outside and inside linebacker as well as cornerback being reason for concern entering 2017.

2015 it was wrs that lost it for us. Adams gets landed on by Richard Rodgers, and hurts his knee in wild card. Cobb drops an easy big catch, and makes up for it by going up and making one of the best catches I ever seen. Landing hard, and rupturing his speen or something... Jordy acl in preseason... a strength became the biggest weakness.
2016 it was cb. Shields out week 1, and the rest of them got injured. Cb was also considered a strength to start the season...
That alone is nearly %20 of Thompson's time here.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You win or lose based on talent and coaching. A team outside of the top 10 has either limitations in coaching, talent, or both. A teams defensive ranking is based on some function of talent and coaching.

What I am saying is that it is difficult to look at stats and know if being outperformed is a function of coaching or talent.

I agree that it's difficult to evaluate whether the Packers defense has struggled mostly because of coaching or a lack of talent over the last six seasons.

I have a hard time believing that while Capers is perfectly capable of putting together a more successful game plan against subpar offenses than most other teams in the league he can't adjust to facing elite opponents.

It's entirely possible I'm wrong about it though.

2015 it was wrs that lost it for us. Adams gets landed on by Richard Rodgers, and hurts his knee in wild card. Cobb drops an easy big catch, and makes up for it by going up and making one of the best catches I ever seen. Landing hard, and rupturing his speen or something... Jordy acl in preseason... a strength became the biggest weakness.
2016 it was cb. Shields out week 1, and the rest of them got injured. Cb was also considered a strength to start the season...
That alone is nearly %20 of Thompson's time here.

You didn't understand the point I was trying to make though as it's entirely possible the Packers are bound to suffer several injuries at a single position once again and I'm not convinced the team is better prepared to overcome it on the defensive side of the ball entering this season.

 

[PikeBadger]

Ahem ... let's not forget here Dom Capers is not a head coach and there's a lot of other threads out there about him and Ted Thompson's future.

Having said that, if there's a defensive guy head coaching who does get fired this year (other than Rob or Rex), I'd be open to bringing him on board in the event we have a healthy or at least fairly healthy squad on that side of the ball, but we still are playing awful.

Interesting assessment. My question is, if McCarthy is axed, who do you replace him with, and how does that affect Rodgers? How closely are Rodgers and McCarthy intertwined and can that dynamic be duplicated?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Interesting assessment. My question is, if McCarthy is axed, who do you replace him with, and how does that affect Rodgers? How closely are Rodgers and McCarthy intertwined and can that dynamic be duplicated?

In my opinion there's absolutely no reason to fire McCarthy, something has to be done to improve the defense though.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Interesting assessment. My question is, if McCarthy is axed, who do you replace him with, and how does that affect Rodgers? How closely are Rodgers and McCarthy intertwined and can that dynamic be duplicated?

Sorry, maybe I misstated it, I wasn't talking replacing MM, just Capers since the thread got hijacked to that guy. MM is staying barring missing the playoffs three years in a row or something.

 

[scotto_25]

Marvin Lewis seems like a shoe-in....

He's gotten wayyyy too many passes IMO

 

[Dantés]

Marvin Lewis seems like a shoe-in....

He's gotten wayyyy too many passes IMO

They hadn't had a winning season in 13 years when he got there, and they've had seven since then. I'm not some big fan, but that kind of turnaround in an organization that is honestly cheap and historically beleaguered will buy you a lot of passes.

 

[PackAttack12]

They hadn't had a winning season in 13 years when he got there, and they've had seven since then. I'm not some big fan, but that kind of turnaround in an organization that is honestly cheap and historically beleaguered will buy you a lot of passes.

I get it, but the man has been the head coach of the Bengals for 15 seasons and hasn't won a single playoff game.

To says he's on borrowed time is a massive understatement

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

They hadn't had a winning season in 13 years when he got there, and they've had seven since then. I'm not some big fan, but that kind of turnaround in an organization that is honestly cheap and historically beleaguered will buy you a lot of passes.

If you don't win a playoff game, you deserve to get your *** canned and never coach again.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Marvin Lewis seems like a shoe-in....

He's gotten wayyyy too many passes IMO

He should be publicly fired for what happened yesterday. He is so bad Rod Marinelli could win a superbowl coaching with his players right now. Awful awful he is the top ranked dumbest nfl head coach in history. Very stupid man who knows nothing getting blanked out by Baltimore at home.

Chuck Pagano also should be taking an early exit. I don't care if Luck is out, allowing Jared Goff to throw for 500 yards on your defense is just bad. I see no way he survives this year at the rate his team is going.