Projecting the 53 Man Roster

[Deleted member 6794]

Davis currently presents the best option at returning punts and kickoffs on the roster. As long as another player doesn't unseat him in that area he will make the roster, even if Davis doesn't produce on offense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe we could get Jeff back for return duties instead

I know you were only kidding, but don't tease me like that!

 

[Poppa San]

Maybe we could get Jeff back for return duties instead

I don't recall him returning punts.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't recall him returning punts.

I don't think that he did, just kick returns. Although if you believe this YouTube Posters caption he did Have to love one of the first comments:

"One day Aaron Rodgers will realize the big play ability in #83 then they will become the most feared QB/WR tandem in the NFL."

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[SoonerPack]

If Trevor Davis is on the actual 53 I will lose my mind. Eating a precious spot up for a guy that may give us 3-4 "good" returns drives me nuts. He brings next to nothing on the offensive side of the ball and choosing him over a guy like Jake K would be monumentally silly. Jake could be a 50+ catch guy with multiple TD's whereas TD gives us a couple returns. I know ST's are an important part of the game but we aren't talking about Desmond Howard for crying out loud. We are talking about an average to slightly above average returner. If TD is on this team then we are more talent deficient than I thought... G P G

 

[Dantés]

The bottom line here is that Kumerow is the new Janis (i.e. irrational fan favorite destined for greatness) and Davis is a pariah. It doesn't matter than Davis would add more value because of his ST ability. For the most part this isn't going to be a rational debate. People just have a visceral love of one guy and disgust for the other.

 

[Mondio]

Davis is tough for me. as a WR, he's never offered much, and I still can't get that open bomb he didn't even put his hands out for out of my head. I know he said he lost the ball, it happens, but it's made a lasting memory for me with no real opportunity for him to erase it.

on the other hand, he's been the best guy we've had as a return man. Our return game sucked last year. ****ing abysmal. I hated even watching receiving punts and kick offs because it was so mundane and pointless with our return men. Field position is important, having the ability to hit a return now and again so our offense doesn't always have to drive 80+ yards for points is important, even if it's just once a game. There were a couple times last year we minus the equivalent of 3,4 offensive scoring drives just because of our crap return ability compared to the other team. That needs to change.

But, even though he's our best return man, he doesn't instill much confidence either. sure he can get a nice return, or maybe he fair catches it at the 3 again. You never know. Seems like a nice kid, works hard. Really tried to nail down that return man spot. I think decision making could be better and I'd think he can get better. at the same time. If someone else gives a return ability and consistency, I don't think he'll have a spot on the team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The bottom line here is that Kumerow is the new Janis (i.e. irrational fan favorite destined for greatness) and Davis is a pariah. It doesn't matter than Davis would add more value because of his ST ability. For the most part this isn't going to be a rational debate. People just have a visceral love of one guy and disgust for the other.

Oh come on man! Kumerow has a much higher yds/catch, he is a stud!

Davis: 8 catches 94 yds. 11.8/catch, 1 TD

Kumerow: 8, 103, 12.9, 1

But yes, much like all those "hopes and dreams guys" that came before them, neither guy will probably turn out to be much over time. Tonyan may currently fall into this category as well.

I will say that I have liked Kumerow's work as a WR better than Davis, but if someone like J'Mon Moore showed he can return punts and it came down to keeping just 1 of the 3, Moore would be my pick. Then maybe Moore can become that next "hopes and dreams guy".

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Davis is tough for me. as a WR, he's never offered much, and I still can't get that open bomb he didn't even put his hands out for out of my head.

Was that on the football field or in the airport?

 

[Dantés]

Oh come on man! Kumerow has a much higher yds/catch, he is a stud!

Davis: 8 catches 94 yds. 11.8/catch, 1 TD

Kumerow: 8, 103, 12.9, 1

But yes, much like all those "hopes and dreams guys" that came before them, neither guy will probably turn out to be much over time. Tonyan may currently fall into this category as well.

I will say that I have liked Kumerow's work as a WR better than Davis, but if someone like J'Mon Moore showed he can return punts and it came down to keeping just 1 of the 3, Moore would be my pick. Then maybe Moore can become that next "hopes and dreams guy".

I too think that Kumerow's work in the offense has been more impressive than Davis'. But I think it's moot, because I don't think either one will every be more than a WR6/Emergency type of guy. Either one will be, in my own estimation, behind Allison, MVS, EQ, and Moore (so long as Moore's hands resolve). So I would much rather give that spot to a guy who can make a positive contribution to special teams.

Now if they find a viable alternative in the return game, I'll be more than happy to see Davis cut and have Kumerow or someone else replace him.

 

[GleefulGary]

LOL, yeah, Aaron HATES those traits in a WR. We know how he ices-out WR's who run bad routes and/or drop easy balls.

"Lazard and Kumerow won't be on the final roster." ~ pretty definitive opinion. Even though Kumerow is 27 he only has 1 yr accrued NFL service so still under Packer-control for 2 more years. Also, has a smaller cap # than '18 draft picks so no reason why couldn't beat-out Moore or ?? for roster spot. He's got an uphill battle, but far from definitively off of the roster in Sept.

Yes, Rodgers does like those traits. And Kumerow is adequate at them. Players like Kumerow are not hard to find, and frankly, he's probably close to his peak. There's no advantage to keeping him over Trevor Davis. Both would rarely play on offense and Davis impacts more areas.

 

[GleefulGary]

If Trevor Davis is on the actual 53 I will lose my mind. Eating a precious spot up for a guy that may give us 3-4 "good" returns drives me nuts. He brings next to nothing on the offensive side of the ball and choosing him over a guy like Jake K would be monumentally silly. Jake could be a 50+ catch guy with multiple TD's whereas TD gives us a couple returns. I know ST's are an important part of the game but we aren't talking about Desmond Howard for crying out loud. We are talking about an average to slightly above average returner. If TD is on this team then we are more talent deficient than I thought... G P G

50 CATCHES?! That isn't within the realm of reality.

Let's go over this, ok?

Will JK play over Adams? No.
MVS? No.
EQSB? No.
Allison? No.
Moore? Maybe.
Davis? Probably.

So as a WR, he is AT BEST, our #5 WR.

Jimmy Graham and Aaron Jones are assuredly going to get more targets than Kumerow. Probably Sternberger too, but I'll be optimistic and take him out. So at best, the #7 option in the offense could get 50+ catches?

Kumerow doesn't do enough in other areas of the game to justify a roster spot. Your 5/6 WR either has to be a developmental piece, or really good on ST's, preferably both. Kumerow is neither. I don't think it's even a hard decision. He isn't making the roster.

 

[Dantés]

50 CATCHES?! That isn't within the realm of reality.

Let's go over this, ok?

Will JK play over Adams? No.
MVS? No.
EQSB? No.
Allison? No.
Moore? Maybe.
Davis? Probably.

So as a WR, he is AT BEST, our #5 WR.

Jimmy Graham and Aaron Jones are assuredly going to get more targets than Kumerow. Probably Sternberger too, but I'll be optimistic and take him out. So at best, the #7 option in the offense could get 50+ catches?

Kumerow doesn't do enough in other areas of the game to justify a roster spot. Your 5/6 WR either has to be a developmental piece, or really good on ST's, preferably both. Kumerow is neither. I don't think it's even a hard decision. He isn't making the roster.

You clearly haven't kept up with the forum over the past several months. Kumerow is both a big, long striding deep threat who can take the top off a defense AND a quicker than fast slot guy that can always get open. And he can return punts... because of reasons.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Dont forget:

Tonyan > Gronk


I love getting excited about these outliers, hell I thought Michael Clark was going to end up being a Pro Bowler some day with his size and leaping ability! But at the end of the day, there is a reason most of them are late round picks or UDFA's and that normally doesn't change.

We all love a great story and a bargain, which is why some of us buy that 5000 pack of condoms at Costco.

 

[RRyder]

If Trevor Davis is on the actual 53 I will lose my mind. Eating a precious spot up for a guy that may give us 3-4 "good" returns drives me nuts. He brings next to nothing on the offensive side of the ball and choosing him over a guy like Jake K would be monumentally silly. Jake could be a 50+ catch guy with multiple TD's whereas TD gives us a couple returns. I know ST's are an important part of the game but we aren't talking about Desmond Howard for crying out loud. We are talking about an average to slightly above average returner. If TD is on this team then we are more talent deficient than I thought... G P G

I like Kumerow but if he makes the roster it's most likely as the #6 WR. Barring injury he wont see 50 passing snaps over the course of the entire season (much less catch 50 targets). Unless Kumerow starts showing a lot of promise on coverage units a punt returner, even a unspectacular one, has more value than a #6 WR

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

To me this thread is WAY TOO EARLY. But I'll bite:

QB
A. Rodgers
T. Boyle
D. Kizer

RB
A. Jones
D. Williams
J. Williams
D. Vitale

WR
D. Adams
M. Valdez-Scantling
G. Allison
E. St. Brown
J. Kumerow
J. Moore

TE
J. Graham
J. Sternberger
R. Tonyan
M. Lewis

OL
D. Bakhtiari
E. Jenkins
C. Linsley
B. Bulaga
C. Madison
B. Turner
L. Taylor
J. Spriggs
L. Patrick


DL
K. Clark
M. Daniels
K. Keke
D. Lowry
T. Lancaster
M. Adams

OLB
R. Gary
Z. Smith
P. Smith
K. Fackrell

LB
B. Martinez
O. Burks
C. Bolton
T. Summers

CB
T. Williams
K. King
J. Alexander
J. Jackson
K. Holman
T. Brown

S
D. Savage Jr
A. Amos
J. Jones
R. Greene

ST
M. Crosby
J.K. Scott
H. Bradley

 

[AmishMafia]

I keep throwing out Crawford because he was kept specifically to be a kick/punt cover guy. He really emerged as a key ST player late in preseason, and it won him a roster spot. That's why he spent 333 snaps on ST last year, and 1 on defense. And that's fine! You need those guys.

Just because he only sees the field on STs, doesnt mean that is all he is there for. Kizer only sees the field on FGs and XPs to hold. That doesnt mean he is here because of that. I think he is here because they are developing him at other positions and roles.

To me, the issue with keeping Davis isn't his talent, or how much he adds to the WR room, it's his health.

9/10 times, your 6th WR ain't doing **** anyways. The guys on the bottom of the depth chart HAVE to contribute on ST's. Take Alan Lazard...what's he gonna do on ST's? Probably jack squat. So don't keep him, there's no value to it.

Davis has had his opportunities as a WR. It isnt going to happen for him. If I'm the Packers, if anyone on the roster has an aptitude or skills for it, Davis is gone.

Kumerow *isn't* good. Honest truth, he seems to have good hands and run reliable routes, . . .

People like Kumerow because he's local, and because he's the white WR unicorn. He's just flat out not good enough to place on the roster over Davis. He doesn't contribute on ST's enough to justify it.

I would love to improve from Davis on the roster, but Kumerow ain't it.

Running good routes and having reliable hands are the 2 most important traits in a WR. Maybe the racist here is you. Maybe you dont like him because he is white and the old dogma 'only black men are good enough to play WR' is stuck in that noggin of yours.

Davis is far superior athletically than Kumerow and yet does little as a WR. You apparently dont value route running high enough. It isnt just knowing where to go and when, there are a dozen little things a guy has to do and a dozen more he can do to get open.

 

[AmishMafia]

To me this thread is WAY TOO EARLY. But I'll bite:

QB
A. Rodgers
T. Boyle
D. Kizer

RB
A. Jones
D. Williams
J. Williams
D. Vitale

WR
D. Adams
M. Valdez-Scantling
G. Allison
E. St. Brown
J. Kumerow
J. Moore

TE
J. Graham
J. Sternberger
R. Tonyan
M. Lewis

OL
D. Bakhtiari
E. Jenkins
C. Linsley
B. Bulaga
C. Madison
B. Turner
L. Taylor
J. Spriggs
L. Patrick


DL
K. Clark
M. Daniels
K. Keke
D. Lowry
T. Lancaster
M. Adams

OLB
R. Gary
Z. Smith
P. Smith
K. Fackrell

LB
B. Martinez
O. Burks
C. Bolton
T. Summers

CB
T. Williams
K. King
J. Alexander
J. Jackson
K. Holman
T. Brown

S
D. Savage Jr
A. Amos
J. Jones
R. Greene

ST
M. Crosby
J.K. Scott
H. Bradley

All looks good to me, but I think you are light on OLBs, especially if the plan is to move Gary and ZSmith to the line on 3rd and longs. Not that I know who deserves a roster spot.

Suspect only 3 RBs will be kept. Seems you can always pick up a decent one in mid season off somebodies PS.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

All looks good to me, but I think you are light on OLBs, especially if the plan is to move Gary and ZSmith to the line on 3rd and longs. Not that I know who deserves a roster spot.

Suspect only 3 RBs will be kept. Seems you can always pick up a decent one in mid season off somebodies PS.

Perhaps so, but I think if necessary, and only if necessary Summer may be able to supplement in the event of injury. Summers is only 6'2, but he does have the speed to make up for it I believe. Honestly, I don't see the need for Gilbert, Donnerson, or anyone else for that matter if they they really aren't going to see the field. That's why I kept Summers and Bolton, because the needs seems to be at ILB more. Both Summers and Bolton should be able to fill the ST spots as well when playing behind Martinez and Burks. My money for whatever reason is Bolton getting head of Summers and maybe pushing Burks as he has the most experience coming from college. I think Gute will save that emergency cap money for an OLB signing if necessary.

Vitale COULD be replaced by a combo of Lewis and J. Williams but I believe there is a certified role in MLF's offense so I can't see him being cut. Maybe we'll see that in the Preseason to see if they are thinking the same thing. However, it may not happen because teams may key in on Lewis/J. Williams being subbed in and out on certain sub-packages and able to predict the play. Vitale eliminates that.

 

[AmishMafia]

Perhaps so, but I think if necessary, and only if necessary Summer may be able to supplement in the event of injury. Summers is only 6'2, but he does have the speed to make up for it I believe. Honestly, I don't see the need for Gilbert, Donnerson, or anyone else for that matter if they they really aren't going to see the field. That's why I kept Summers and Bolton, because the needs seems to be at ILB more. Both Summers and Bolton should be able to fill the ST spots as well when playing behind Martinez and Burks. My money for whatever reason is Bolton getting head of Summers and maybe pushing Burks as he has the most experience coming from college. I think Gute will save that emergency cap money for an OLB signing if necessary.

Vitale COULD be replaced by a combo of Lewis and J. Williams but I believe there is a certified role in MLF's offense so I can't see him being cut. Maybe we'll see that in the Preseason to see if they are thinking the same thing. However, it may not happen because teams may key in on Lewis/J. Williams being subbed in and out on certain sub-packages and able to predict the play. Vitale eliminates that.

Donnerson = Summers. A 7th round flyer on an incredible athlete. It takes these guys a while to convert if they hit at all. So . .. dont give up on Donnerson and dont count on Summers just yet.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Donnerson = Summers. A 7th round flyer on an incredible athlete. It takes these guys a while to convert if they hit at all. So . .. dont give up on Donnerson and dont count on Summers just yet.

Agreed. I think that is a "TT trap", relying too much and on too many rookies and inexperienced second year guys to back fill the roster. While I understand that you want to keep them around to develop and that it would be impossible to have a cap compliant 53 man roster of all veterans, but it sucks to hit mid season and due to injuries, you start realizing just how not ready these guys are.

Rodgers new contract makes it even more of a challenge to carry a roster with experience, but that just means Gute and the Packers have to be smart and make great decisions in regards to second contracts and FA signings.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Donnerson = Summers. A 7th round flyer on an incredible athlete. It takes these guys a while to convert if they hit at all. So . .. dont give up on Donnerson and dont count on Summers just yet.

True, Donnerson is the better athlete and bigger, but Summers may be the better technician, perhaps. I'm only guessing. I'm assuming Gute "double-tapped" the position either to give Donnerson competition or maybe push him out. Maybe there's somebody else who is an obvious camp casualty that we aren't considering yet. (Trying not to say Moore, but Moore).

Also, we are all going to have to reconsider our posts, Curtis Bolton, Javien Hamilton, and Greg Roberts have all SIGNED 3 year deals. I'm guessing that means Tramon Williams, Donnerson, and somebody else is an odd man out(Burks?). I'm not sure how easy it is to cut UDFAs, but those 3 signings alone are about $1.7-2.2M, that would be very costly considering our cap at this point if we had to pay out even a small portion of that money. I'm pretty sure Gute wouldn't sign them if he could have just invited them to camp and not paid them anything. So there was a market for them somewhere.


EDIT - Nothing against Burks, but I would be THRILLED if Gute were to cut him; because that shows what type of GM we really have. TT would let guys just squat on the roster for 3-5 years before finally replacing them, and I would respect him even more if he admitted it wasn't a good fit and had the Packers move on. Obviously Pettine would need to concur, but I would get really excited about it. It would be nice if Gute could even trade him, I could be wrong, but I feel we could probably get a 6th for him next year. Day 3 picks matter.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Trevor Davis is on the actual 53 I will lose my mind. Eating a precious spot up for a guy that may give us 3-4 "good" returns drives me nuts. He brings next to nothing on the offensive side of the ball and choosing him over a guy like Jake K would be monumentally silly. Jake could be a 50+ catch guy with multiple TD's whereas TD gives us a couple returns. I know ST's are an important part of the game but we aren't talking about Desmond Howard for crying out loud. We are talking about an average to slightly above average returner. If TD is on this team then we are more talent deficient than I thought... G P G

The Packers will need a returner on the roster. As long as there's no better option than Davis available it doesn't make any sense to release him.

Just because he only sees the field on STs, doesnt mean that is all he is there for. Kizer only sees the field on FGs and XPs to hold. That doesnt mean he is here because of that. I think he is here because they are developing him at other positions and roles.

The Packers used Scott as the holder on field goals and extra points. Kizer didn't receive any snaps on special teams last season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

True, Donnerson is the better athlete and bigger, but Summers may be the better technician, perhaps. I'm only guessing. I'm assuming Gute "double-tapped" the position either to give Donnerson competition or maybe push him out. Maybe there's somebody else who is an obvious camp casualty that we aren't considering yet. (Trying not to say Moore, but Moore).

Also, we are all going to have to reconsider our posts, Curtis Bolton, Javien Hamilton, and Greg Roberts have all SIGNED 3 year deals. I'm guessing that means Tramon Williams, Donnerson, and somebody else is an odd man out(Burks?). I'm not sure how easy it is to cut UDFAs, but those 3 signings alone are about $1.7-2.2M, that would be very costly considering our cap at this point if we had to pay out even a small portion of that money. I'm pretty sure Gute wouldn't sign them if he could have just invited them to camp and not paid them anything. So there was a market for them somewhere.


EDIT - Nothing against Burks, but I would be THRILLED if Gute were to cut him; because that shows what type of GM we really have. TT would let guys just squat on the roster for 3-5 years before finally replacing them, and I would respect him even more if he admitted it wasn't a good fit and had the Packers move on. Obviously Pettine would need to concur, but I would get really excited about it. It would be nice if Gute could even trade him, I could be wrong, but I feel we could probably get a 6th for him next year. Day 3 picks matter.

I wouldn't read much into the signing of the UDFA's, the only money they are guaranteed are the signing bonuses, which were $7,000 each for Bolton and Roberts and $4200 for Hamilton. All that really says is that they will probably make it to camp and possibly another team was interested as well.

Also, remember Burks is only a 2nd year guy, who was also injured to start the 2018 season. Far too soon to give up on a 3rd rounder IMO.

 

[AmishMafia]

Agreed. I think that is a "TT trap", relying too much and on too many rookies and inexperienced second year guys to back fill the roster. While I understand that you want to keep them around to develop and that it would be impossible to have a cap compliant 53 man roster of all veterans, but it sucks to hit mid season and due to injuries, you start realizing just how not ready these guys are.

Rodgers new contract makes it even more of a challenge to carry a roster with experience, but that just means Gute and the Packers have to be smart and make great decisions in regards to second contracts and FA signings.

Nature of the beast. A conflict between floor, ceiling, and liklihood. In the 7th you can get a player who is ready to play, but he wont ever be be more than an average backup. Better to take a Summers who isnt ready, but has the physical skills to be a dominant player. Sure he is a long shot to put things together, but he is the sort of player you need to impact and win as opposed to a guy who can fill in.