Projecting the 53 Man Roster

[PackAttack12]

With the emphasis LaFleur has placed on special teams and considering the hire(s) we've made, I think they're well aware of where they stand in regards to a return man.

They must have confidence that Trevor will continue to grow in that role. I tend to agree with @Dantés that the Packers are likely to hold on to him.

Unless there's something in the weeds that we aren't seeing clearly right now.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

I agree with most of this but I would add Kumerow and remove Trevor Davis. I know Davis adds return specialist ability, but the Injuries last year may hold him back.

I'll go one step further and say I like Lazard more than Trevor Davis.

With Lazard's size and somewhat lack of speed I'm curious if they'll try him at some TE if they aren't impressed with the 4 TE which I don't think any one of them are special. I'd be ok if he switched off and on at TE and WR.

 

[tynimiller]

Fwiw, Trevor Davis is one of the best returners in the league, and a very good gunner. He just needs to stay healthy.

Hang on...if true Gute go get a 6th rounder or so for him and move along. If that good some team would give a flyer on, or conditional pick.

 

[thequick12]

So my question in that scenario is who's returning punts?

Not Trevor Davis he is garbage. If you're gonna give a guy a roster spot exclusively as a returner he better be really really good like Desmond Howard good. Trevor Davis is not that and as he adds nothing as a receiver, it's time to move on even if that means you have Tramon Williams or Josh Jackson as your sure handed but unfortunately unexplosive punt returner.

Also for the record Davis as exactly 0 touchdowns on either punt or kickoff returns. So while his 12 yard avg on 37 career punt returns is impressive he doesn't have that nose for the end zone/ability to finish the return that you need in aguy you keep as just a returner.

Keep kumerow over Davis 100%

 

[Dantés]

Not Trevor Davis he is garbage. If you're gonna give a guy a roster spot exclusively as a returner he better be really really good like Desmond Howard good. Trevor Davis is not that and as he adds nothing as a receiver, it's time to move on even if that means you have Tramon Williams or Josh Jackson as your sure handed but unfortunately unexplosive punt returner.

Also for the record Davis as exactly 0 touchdowns on either punt or kickoff returns. So while his 12 yard avg on 37 career punt returns is impressive he doesn't have that nose for the end zone/ability to finish the return that you need in aguy you keep as just a returner.

Keep kumerow over Davis 100%

So my question in that scenario is who's returning punts?

 

[Pkrjones]

So my question in that scenario is who's returning punts?

I'd give serious reps in these pre-season camps at both punt & kickoff returns to Jamaal & Dexter Williams, CB's Brown & T. Williams in addition to Davis. May try Kumerow & J'Mon Moore back there, as well and see if they have anything to offer.

The backend roster guys who can play a position if needed are the guys that need to earn their keep. Game-day roster spots are just too valuable for a dedicated returner, IMHO.

 

[Dantés]

I'd give serious reps in these pre-season camps at both punt & kickoff returns to Jamaal & Dexter Williams, CB's Brown & T. Williams in addition to Davis. May try Kumerow & J'Mon Moore back there, as well and see if they have anything to offer.

The backend roster guys who can play a position if needed are the guys that need to earn their keep. Game-day roster spots are just too valuable for a dedicated returner, IMHO.

Every team gives active spots to ST guys. No one seems to mind a guy like James Crawford being active and he contributes even less. If Davis can return kicks/punts and cover them as well, given that he's the best guy on the roster, I don't see what they couldn't keep him and use him.

 

[Pkrjones]

Every team gives active spots to ST guys. No one seems to mind a guy like James Crawford being active and he contributes even less. If Davis can return kicks/punts and cover them as well, given that he's the best guy on the roster, I don't see what they couldn't keep him and use him.

You keep throwing out Crawford as a dedicated ST guy... in 2018 he was a rookie and changing positions (from DE/Edge guy in college to ILB). Too much potential to cut & risk losing so made the roster and contributed as much as possible. Davis was a 3rd year guy and ONLY contributed to returns, not valuable enough to even keep on the 53 so they IR'd him in case needed later in the season.

FYI -Crawford is Charles Woodson's nephew so another reason they gave him an extra-long look. Needs to make a big jump & claim an ILB spot this year or will be cut.

We've already seen that this staff highly values player flexibility and the ability to play different positions based on situation (OL, DL, OLB/DL)... why would they value a one-trick-pony returner? Best thing Davis can do is learn the playbook and how to run routes so might be considered somewhat valuable as an emergency WR if needed.

 

[Dantés]

You keep throwing out Crawford as a dedicated ST guy... in 2018 he was a rookie and changing positions (from DE/Edge guy in college to ILB). Too much potential to cut & risk losing so made the roster and contributed as much as possible. Davis was a 3rd year guy and ONLY contributed to returns, not valuable enough to even keep on the 53 so they IR'd him in case needed later in the season.

FYI -Crawford is Charles Woodson's nephew so another reason they gave him an extra-long look. Needs to make a big jump & claim an ILB spot this year or will be cut.

We've already seen that this staff highly values player flexibility and the ability to play different positions based on situation (OL, DL, OLB/DL)... why would they value a one-trick-pony returner? Best thing Davis can do is learn the playbook and how to run routes so might be considered somewhat valuable as an emergency WR if needed.

I keep throwing out Crawford because he was kept specifically to be a kick/punt cover guy. He really emerged as a key ST player late in preseason, and it won him a roster spot. That's why he spent 333 snaps on ST last year, and 1 on defense. And that's fine! You need those guys.

So my point is this-- if it's fine to keep Crawford as an exclusive ST player who is on the roster and active on Sundays purely to cover kicks and punts, why not Davis who is a good returner while also helping to cover kicks and punts? He doesn't only contribute on returns.

In other words, I'm wondering why there is a double standard when it comes to Davis. No one seems to care if they keep a LB exclusive to play ST, but bring up Davis (because he offers a skillset that virtually doesn't exist elsewhere on the roster) and it's super distasteful to fans.

The odds that the 6th WR on the roster will contribute anything on offense comparable to the value that Davis will offer on ST are slim to none. And I don't even think the book should be shut on him being a capable WR5/6 on offense. He's talented. He was only a 5th round pick. He is essentially a 3rd year player after missing 2018. Literally the only reasons why some people are calling to keep a guy like Lazard over him is because Davis was a TT pick and Lazard's name is fresher.

And finally-- what is the alternative? I keep asking this question and the answers I get are:

1) Use Tramon Williams, our 36 year old corner who isn't effective at it any more.

2) Use our critically important CB1 or FS1 which would seriously **** me off.

3) Use some player who has literally never returned punts and we are just assuming they might be able to.

Keeping Davis is more about the alternatives for me than the player himself.

 

[GleefulGary]

If you think one of the reasons they're keeping a guy on the roster is bc they're related to Charles Woodson, then you're missing the boat. That isn't how NFL teams work.

Crawford was on the team exclusively for ST's. They're trying him in different areas to see if he's worth it.

To me, the issue with keeping Davis isn't his talent, or how much he adds to the WR room, it's his health.

9/10 times, your 6th WR ain't doing **** anyways. The guys on the bottom of the depth chart HAVE to contribute on ST's. Take Alan Lazard...what's he gonna do on ST's? Probably jack squat. So don't keep him, there's no value to it.

 

[GleefulGary]

People forget that Davis has tremendous value as a gunner, not just a returner. Personally, I think a great gunner is more important. They can single handedly wreck a ST's play. That's why they kept Janis around for as long as they did. He kept teams from making returns. There's a lot of value in that.

 

[LoafInIowa]

Not Trevor Davis he is garbage. If you're gonna give a guy a roster spot exclusively as a returner he better be really really good like Desmond Howard good. Trevor Davis is not that and as he adds nothing as a receiver, it's time to move on even if that means you have Tramon Williams or Josh Jackson as your sure handed but unfortunately unexplosive punt returner.

Also for the record Davis as exactly 0 touchdowns on either punt or kickoff returns. So while his 12 yard avg on 37 career punt returns is impressive he doesn't have that nose for the end zone/ability to finish the return that you need in aguy you keep as just a returner.

Keep kumerow over Davis 100%

This what I was thinking. Well worth having Kumerow getting a chance to unseat Davis in camp & hopefully Kumerow can get it done. Then he can be used in the return role, along with being a somewhat decent 5th or 6th receiver, who add's a little value to the team. I am also intrigued by the size of Lazard & can see him as a hybrid TE / WR role, but one of the other 2nd year WR would have to have a terrible camp for that part of this to be feasible. Just don't see Lazard being able to take over one of their spots, as much as I would like him to, after watching him at Iowa State.

 

[Dantés]

So we're going to assume that Kumerow can be a punt returner because... ?

 

[LoafInIowa]

If you think one of the reasons they're keeping a guy on the roster is bc they're related to Charles Woodson, then you're missing the boat. That isn't how NFL teams work.

Crawford was on the team exclusively for ST's. They're trying him in different areas to see if he's worth it.

To me, the issue with keeping Davis isn't his talent, or how much he adds to the WR room, it's his health.

9/10 times, your 6th WR ain't doing **** anyways. The guys on the bottom of the depth chart HAVE to contribute on ST's. Take Alan Lazard...what's he gonna do on ST's? Probably jack squat. So don't keep him, there's no value to it.

That is my biggest issue with Davis, is that he was hurt so much last year, that GB was forced to use other alternatives in his place. The year before, he was on IR again, but reasoning was to keep him around, instead of having him exposed to the Practice Squad & potentially being plucked off of there. Would feel alot better about him, if he had any other special teams value, but I just don't see it. And don't want to go down that road again, of him making it through training camp, then he's hurt & we are back at square one again.

With Crawford, he was available all season & made himself better as the season went along. I'm sure he won't big splashes on Defense, but he would be capable if given the chance.

 

[LoafInIowa]

So we're going to assume that Kumerow can be a punt returner because... ?

Not assuming, hoping. He seems shifty enough & it increases his value if he is given a chance to do it. Was trying to go back to college & high school highlights to see if he had any experience at it, but couldn't find anything quickly.

It's not that I don't like Davis at returner, I just think there is someone else on the team that can make more of an impact at the position & give us some flexibility somewhere else. I would be okay with any of the 2nd year WR being able to do it, as it would increase their value also & wouldn't take a roster spot dedicated to just an returner.

 

[GleefulGary]

Kumerow *isn't* good. Honest truth, he seems to have good hands and run reliable routes, especially compared to the rooks last year. Which, I mean, he's 27 or something, he better be better at that. What value does he add? On special teams it's very limited. Is he going to play over Adams? No. Geronimo? No. MVS? No. EQSB? No. Moore? Maybe. Davis? Probably. So at the very best, he's a 5th WR with very limited contribution on ST's, and he's older than everybody else. What's the freaking point?!

People like Kumerow because he's local, and because he's the white WR unicorn. He's just flat out not good enough to place on the roster over Davis. He doesn't contribute on ST's enough to justify it.

I would love to improve from Davis on the roster, but Kumerow ain't it.

 

[GleefulGary]

Lazard and Kumerow won't be on the final roster.

 

[Pkrjones]

Honest truth, he seems to have good hands and run reliable routes, especially compared to the rooks last year.

LOL, yeah, Aaron HATES those traits in a WR. We know how he ices-out WR's who run bad routes and/or drop easy balls.

"Lazard and Kumerow won't be on the final roster." ~ pretty definitive opinion. Even though Kumerow is 27 he only has 1 yr accrued NFL service so still under Packer-control for 2 more years. Also, has a smaller cap # than '18 draft picks so no reason why couldn't beat-out Moore or ?? for roster spot. He's got an uphill battle, but far from definitively off of the roster in Sept.

 

[Dantés]

Not assuming, hoping. He seems shifty enough & it increases his value if he is given a chance to do it. Was trying to go back to college & high school highlights to see if he had any experience at it, but couldn't find anything quickly.

It's not that I don't like Davis at returner, I just think there is someone else on the team that can make more of an impact at the position & give us some flexibility somewhere else. I would be okay with any of the 2nd year WR being able to do it, as it would increase their value also & wouldn't take a roster spot dedicated to just an returner.

Hey, I hope they find a better option too! I just don't see it currently on the roster (unless it happens to be that UDFA receiver from NDSU).

I know I keep repeating myself, but I am definitely not a Trevor Davis fanboy. I just don't see the alternatives. It won't be Kumerow. He doesn't profile as a PR guy at all.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm wondering why there is a double standard when it comes to Davis.

Cause he tried to blow up an airport?

People forget that Davis has tremendous value as a gunner, not just a returner. Personally, I think a great gunner is more important. They can single handedly wreck a ST's play. That's why they kept Janis around for as long as they did. He kept teams from making returns. There's a lot of value in that.

I wouldn't call what he did as a gunner "tremendous", more like pretty adequate. I get what both you and Dantes are saying about Davis, but I still prefer giving those duties to younger guys, that have potential at one of the "regular" positions in the coming years and is an adequate backup as well. I don't see Davis as having a future as a WR in the NFL, nor did Janis, which I think is why the Packers finally cut him, despite what he was doing on special teams, he wasn't an NFL WR.

All that said, Davis sticks with the team if one of the younger players isn't close in level of play on special teams and/or Davis actually proves he can be a WR.

 

[Dantés]

Cause he tried to blow up an airport?



I wouldn't call what he did as a gunner "tremendous", more like pretty adequate. I get what both you and Dantes are saying about Davis, but I still prefer giving those duties to younger guys, that have potential at one of the "regular" positions in the coming years and is an adequate backup as well. I don't see Davis as having a future as a WR in the NFL, nor did Janis, which I think is why the Packers finally cut him, despite what he was doing on special teams, he wasn't an NFL WR.

All that said, Davis sticks with the team if one of the younger players isn't close in level of play on special teams and/or Davis actually proves he can be a WR.

I don't think Davis has a significant future in the offense either, but I don't think his (low) odds in that regard are any lower than the alternatives for that spot (i.e. Kumerow, Lazard). I don't think the 6th WR spot is going to anyone who has a future in the offense, unless they get really lucky and find a UDFA gem. So if that's the reality of the situation, why not keep the guy who helps the team the most?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't think Davis has a significant future in the offense either, but I don't think his (low) odds in that regard are any lower than the alternatives for that spot (i.e. Kumerow, Lazard). I don't think the 6th WR spot is going to anyone who has a future in the offense, unless they get really lucky and find a UDFA gem. So if that's the reality of the situation, why not keep the guy who helps the team the most?

Well, obviously if Davis is THE best option and the 54th guy is a guy that really doesn't have much of a future, its an easy decision. However, if a rookie or 2nd year guy shows promise at a skilled position, needs more seasoning or evaluation time and he shows some promise as a punt returner, even if not quiet as good as Davis at it, I'm keeping that guy.

I still think Janis was kept around as long as he was due to the hope he would become a decent WR, when it became very obvious he wouldn't and there were much better options at WR, his time was up. Could go the same way for Davis, if not this year, next year when his contract is up. His cap hit of $776,794 is peanuts, its just a matter of if someone else becomes more valuable for the roster spot.

 

[Dantés]

Well, obviously if Davis is THE best option and the 54th guy is a guy that really doesn't have much of a future, its an easy decision. However, if a rookie or 2nd year guy shows promise at a skilled position, needs more seasoning or evaluation time and he shows some promise as a punt returner, even if not quiet as good as Davis at it, I'm keeping that guy.

I still think Janis was kept around as long as he was due to the hope he would become a decent WR, when it became very obvious he wouldn't and there were much better options at WR, his time was up. Could go the same way for Davis, if not this year, next year when his contract is up. His cap hit of $776,794 is peanuts, its just a matter of if someone else becomes more valuable for the roster spot.

I would disagree. I think Janis was kept around as long as he was because he provided a needed skillset on special teams and he was better at it than anyone else. Every team keeps certain players at the back of the roster specifically for ST purposes. Last year, we kept Crawford specifically because of ST ability.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would disagree. I think Janis was kept around as long as he was because he provided a needed skillset on special teams and he was better at it than anyone else.

If that was the case, why wasn't he resigned when his rookie contract expired? Browns only offered to pay him $1.25M, with no guarantees and then they cut him. Packers didn't even bother to see if he might continue to add those special talents to the team in 2018.

I will agree with you on this, since Davis is in the final year of his rookie contract, financially it makes sense to keep him if he his head and shoulders better than anyone else returning punts. However, I still standby the desire to cut him, if any other younger player shows he can take over without much drop off and that younger player has a legitimate future at one of the other 22 other positions.

 

[swhitset]

I wasn't really excited about Davis being kept last year, but came to terms with it. Then he got injured not once, but twice, two trips to the IR. Now I would never say a good player should loose his job due to injuries, but then again, I don't consider Davis all that much of a good player.

I guess I found my "Jeff Janis Whipping Boy" replacement.

Maybe we could get Jeff back for return duties instead