Packers vs Jets studs and duds

[Pokerbrat2000]

Seems like one player has had his snaps and opportunities going up while the other has had his go down compared to earlier in the year. I though EQ was out there more than MVS today.

MVS actually had more targets (9) than EQ, but the same # of receptions (5). EQ was the "better" player today with 94 yards to MVS's 75.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Seems like one player has had his snaps and opportunities going up while the other has had his go down compared to earlier in the year. I though EQ was out there more than MVS today.

We'll see what the snap counts show, but I think both got a full complement today.

It doesn't take much effort to look at a box score to determine "opportunities". St. Brown had 5 targets, MVS had 9. That does not include 3 pass interference calls going to MVS...26, 22, 7 yards. Rodgers threw to MVS more than twice as often as St. Brown. On extened plays MVS's job is to go deep. St. Brown works underneath and that's where he gets some of his opportunities.

But I'm not talking about one game. St. Brown could be a good player. MVS could be a very good player. He's more sudden out his breaks and has the long speed. He could build a little more strength for contested balls, but other than I believe it is only a matter of experience.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Wondering if it will be Adams and MVS outside and EQ in the slot in 2019? Allison will most likely be resigned to compete, add in Kumerow, you have a decent 5. Moore has to be wondering if he can even make this team next year.

 

[Mondio]

Thought brown left the game early after he took that shot to the head on a big play.

Anyway, I watched the game, I’ve watched them all. Just seems I see 19 on the field a lot more than MVS.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If you add DPI yardage, the rookies St. Brown and Valdes-Scantling combined for 228 yards.

Did St. Brown have a DPI? I didn't see one. Whereas MVS drew 3 for 66 yards. St. Brown did draw that defenseless receiver unsportmanlike penalty that knocked him out of the game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Thought brown left the game early after he took that shot to the head on a big play.

Anyway, I watched the game, I’ve watched them all. Just seems I see 19 on the field a lot more than MVS.

A few games yes, but MVS has definitely seen more snaps this year.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/green-bay-packers-snap-counts

 

[Mondio]

I know he has, probably by a lot. I’m saying in the past few weeks, it seems like one is trending one way and MVS the other. I think at this point EQ has been on the field more.

 

[Dantés]

Did St. Brown have a DPI? I didn't see one. Whereas MVS drew 3 for 66 yards. St. Brown did draw that defenseless receiver unsportmanlike penalty that knocked him out of the game.

When I skimmed the plays, I didn't see any DPI's on EQ.

 

[Dantés]

Wondering if it will be Adams and MVS outside and EQ in the slot in 2019? Allison will most likely be resigned to compete, add in Kumerow, you have a decent 5. Moore has to be wondering if he can even make this team next year.

I think they need to add someone who excels more in the quick game to the mix.

 

[rmontro]

When he picked a fight with a guy's a hundred pounds bigger than him

The game wasn't on TV here but I saw that on the NFL Network. It was stupid of him, but it's good to see him have a little fire out there. He said last week he wanted to "finish the season in the right way". And even if it drops us in the draft, it's good to see that wasn't just talk. I also liked reports that he was doing the championship belt move again. Seems like he's been scowling and complaining all season, it's good to hear he's having some fun again.

The Packers avoided losing all their road games, but just to be a downer:
This is the first time they've had back to back losing seasons since 1991 - the pre-Favre era.

 

[HardRightEdge]

When I skimmed the plays, I didn't see any DPI's on EQ.

Me neither.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I know he has, probably by a lot. I’m saying in the past few weeks, it seems like one is trending one way and MVS the other. I think at this point EQ has been on the field more.

Through week 15, the only week where St. Brown has seen notably more snaps was week 15, though I can't recall if MVS got dinged and was out for part of that game. In that week 15 game St. Brown saw 3 targets, 1 catch, 7 yards while MVS has 2 targets, 1 catch, 12 yards. Overmatched rookies against the Bears.

You can go here https://www.lineups.com/ for game by game sanp counts screening for GB and WR.


Through week 15, MVS had taken 614 snaps and seen 56 targets, about 11 snaps per target. St. Brown had 348 snaps and 31 targets, the same 11 snaps per target. These numbers do not include penalties.

MVS runs more deep routes; St. Brown has been running more short routes out of the slot in Cobb's absence. All Packer receivers play inside and outside, but for the time being and for the most part that's been their roles.

 

[HardRightEdge]

MVS actually had more targets (9) than EQ, but the same # of receptions (5). EQ was the "better" player today with 94 yards to MVS's 75.

MVS drew 3 PIs for 66 yards, two of which were on the winning drive. The receiver has something to do with that even if it isn't in the player's box score.

Also, if you can find the replay of the winning throw to Adams, note MVS running the under cross and 3 defenders converging on him. No safety dropping into the deep zone. Think they might have been respecting MVS a bit there?

I would also note a game hardly goes by without MVS getting separation behind the defense. It happened again this week on an extended play, and Rodgers either didn't see him or didn't think he was in postion to make that throw.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think they need to add someone who excels more in the quick game to the mix.

Yeah. And tough and durable to take the punishment in those middle routes. It wouldn't hurt if he can throw the deep ball if it comes with less than a $15 mil/year contract:

https://deadspin.com/jarvis-landry-unleashes-arm-cannon-with-63-yard-throw-1831287598

The Packers keep adding big WRs which makes one thing they're favoring a big slot concept. We'll see.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Wondering if it will be Adams and MVS outside and EQ in the slot in 2019? Allison will most likely be resigned to compete, add in Kumerow, you have a decent 5. Moore has to be wondering if he can even make this team next year.

Well, Adams-MVS-EQ is how they're lining up now, so that's the default starting point. I don't see EQ as a regualar slot, though. He's more of a glider than a quick twich guy. And you have to be a tough SOB to run those inside routes.

You gotta figure Cobb will be gone. As for Allison, evidently that torn groin muscle that required surgery was quite serious. We remember the players that come back from serious injuries but forget the many others that are never the same and drop out of the league. It's not like Allison had an oversupply of athletic talent to start with. Even a small diminishment in that talent could be enough to marginalize him. And he's not been durable, so there could be cumluative affects besides the groin tear. Before that, he had a concussion and hamstring this seaon. Last year it was a concussion on that Travathan cheap shot. I've said from the start that Allison looks awfully slight to handle NFL punishment on a regular basis. Unfortunately, this season appeard to bear that out.

Kumerow shows promise. At this point the NFL game appears to be too big for Moore, with shaken confidence. We'll see if preseason shows some maturity. The talent is there but for now the head is not.

Free agency and the draft are still to come.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't know if he's good enough to make the roster next season but Kumerow's energy is contagious. Would love for him to have a future with this team.

As for Allison, evidently that torn groin muscle that required surgery was quite serious. We remember the players that come back from serious injuries but forget the many others that are never the same and drop out of the league. It's not like Allison had an oversupply of athletic talent to start with. Even a small diminishment in that talent could be enough to marginalize him. And he's not been durable, so there could be cumluative affects besides the groin tear. Before that, he had a concussion and hamstring this seaon. Last year it was a concussion on that Travathan cheap shot. I've said from the start that Allison looks awfully slight to handle NFL punishment on a regular basis. Unfortunately, this season appeard to bear that out.

For the record, it was Adams who suffered a concussion on Trevathan's cheap shot last season.

 

[AmishMafia]

Nice to have an argument over who the next up and coming receiver is between MVS and EQ. MVS was ahead early but EQ has at least narrowed the gap. We can add Lazard and Moore to the potential list next year as well. I feel the logic here is with so many tall, fast WRs, there should be at least 1 DB the Packers can exploit in every game. I was an advocate of a variety of WR styles but Packers see it differently. May work out nicely for them.

 

[Mondio]

Through week 15, the only week where St. Brown has seen notably more snaps was week 15, though I can't recall if MVS got dinged and was out for part of that game. In that week 15 game St. Brown saw 3 targets, 1 catch, 7 yards while MVS has 2 targets, 1 catch, 12 yards. Overmatched rookies against the Bears.

You can go here https://www.lineups.com/ for game by game sanp counts screening for GB and WR.


Through week 15, MVS had taken 614 snaps and seen 56 targets, about 11 snaps per target. St. Brown had 348 snaps and 31 targets, the same 11 snaps per target. These numbers do not include penalties.

MVS runs more deep routes; St. Brown has been running more short routes out of the slot in Cobb's absence. All Packer receivers play inside and outside, but for the time being and for the most part that's been their roles.

like I said, it seemed like he's been on the field more the past few weeks and he has. Double in fact yesterday. When a young guys is starting much of the year and then another young guy becomes the starter later in the season, To me it says they're giving him a chance for a reason. and EQ was out with an injury 3-4 weeks ago too.

I know MVS has far more snaps for the season, I didn't need to look it up to know. He was the starter almost all year in place of Cobb being out. But over the past 3-4 weeks that changed. That's my point. When Cobb came back, he didn't replace MVS in the line up, Brown had been penciled in by that point. Anyway, i think they very clearly wanted brown on the field more the past couple weeks.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Duds:
Kickoff coverage unit.
Pass rush (again).
#82 (kickoff fumble).
Leonard Williams (bonehead).

Studs: Aaron Rodgers
Three rookie receivers (MVS, St. Brown, Kumerow)
Jamaal Williams.
Davante Adams, as always.

Special mention - Despite an untimely holding penalty in overtime, Brian Bulaga. I doubt Green Bay wins this game with Jason Spriggs starting at right tackle.

 

[Mondio]

That hold wouldn’t even have been a hold had it stayed a passing play like I think was called. When Rodgers saw the opening and took off the defender went to move laterally instead up up the field. By comparison, the first play I think of the 2nd half in the Seahawks game last night, #68 I believe had a linebacker by the jersey and it was stretched across the front as the RB ran by for big gain and no flag.

It’s one of those plays that happens 40 times a game and once and a while they’ll decide to call it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Nice to have an argument over who the next up and coming receiver is between MVS and EQ. MVS was ahead early but EQ has at least narrowed the gap. We can add Lazard and Moore to the potential list next year as well. I feel the logic here is with so many tall, fast WRs, there should be at least 1 DB the Packers can exploit in every game. I was an advocate of a variety of WR styles but Packers see it differently. May work out nicely for them.

I am actually excited about this years batch of WR's. What I am hoping for is they all hit the weights hard in the off season and pick up some upper body mass/strength. Might go a long way in their abilities when it comes to 50/50 balls as well as YAC. My prototype WR looks like Megatron.

 

[HardRightEdge]

like I said, it seemed like he's been on the field more the past few weeks and he has. Double in fact yesterday. When a young guys is starting much of the year and then another young guy becomes the starter later in the season, To me it says they're giving him a chance for a reason. and EQ was out with an injury 3-4 weeks ago too.

I know MVS has far more snaps for the season, I didn't need to look it up to know. He was the starter almost all year in place of Cobb being out. But over the past 3-4 weeks that changed. That's my point. When Cobb came back, he didn't replace MVS in the line up, Brown had been penciled in by that point. Anyway, i think they very clearly wanted brown on the field more the past couple weeks.

Demovsky has posted snap counts for yesterday's game. MVS = 71, St. Brown = 39

 

[Mondio]

and he’s right? I would be very surprised to find out MVS had double the snaps of brown, even with brown leaving early.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Demovsky has posted snap counts for yesterday's game. MVS = 71, St. Brown = 39

Thanks for posting those. Hell of a game for EQ with only 39 snaps.

 

[Mondio]

I’m having trouble believing those numbers. Maybe St. Brown is just more noticeable to me When on the field