Packers sign P Pat O'Donnell

[Mondio]

Whatever he's been over his career, as we can see, replacing him with someone else isn't exactly proving itself to be easy

 

[Heyjoe4]

Whatever he's been over his career, as we can see, replacing him with someone else isn't exactly proving itself to be easy

Yeah it seems like we've had this discussion every year for the past 5 years or so. And he still keeps producing at a decent level.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'd suggest people look at the success rate of all kickers in Lambeau Field, year after year. You'll find that kicking in the Tundra can be a nightmare, even when the mechanics are correct.

I believe Lambeau Field is the worst stadium in the NFC, and only Oakland is worse as a place to kick?

Green Bay has got to be #1 in difficulty. Combining Wind and Cold

There’s a few honorable mentions as far as difficulty (Gillette, Bills Stadium, Soldier Field etc..). Yet none can boast of Green Bay’s frigid temperatures crossed with Lake effect Wind.
Buffalo deals with that “Down Wind Jet stream” but is a smidge warmer, which oddly creates snow anomalies.
I recall from a storm ~30 years ago there was an area in the vicinity of Buffalo that literally recorded an average 10” daily over a 10 days period. Very Windy on that side of Erie

 

[Heyjoe4]

Green Bay has got to be #1 in difficulty. Combining Wind and Cold

There’s a few honorable mentions as far as difficulty (Gillette, Bills Stadium, Soldier Field etc..). Yet none can boast of Green Bay’s frigid temperatures crossed with Lake effect Wind.
Buffalo deals with that “Down Wind Jet stream” but is a smidge warmer. Chicago’s Soldier Field would also rank top #3 imo.

I reminder from the last 20 years ago there was a town South of Buffalo that literally recorded an average 10” of snow daily across a 2 week spectrum. It was an amazing anomaly and they had footage of residents on their rooftops shoveling snow on the ground (yes , you heard me correctly) Snow was piled so high it literally went up above the homes’ gutters levels and I’m not exaggerating. Buffalo is on the wrong side of wrong.

These are good points. It's not fair to compare Crosby to someone who kicks at an indoor stadium or a warm weather environment. I don't know how to handicap that - it seems like an infinitely complex and useless exercise. Again, subjectively, I've always liked Crosby. Considering the length of his career, all in Green Bay, he's done very well.

It's like comparing baseball players at the same position. There is no standard MLB ball park. Balls go farther in CO because of the thinner air, and the reverse is probably true for Miami.

So Crosby will have Packer fans who like him and don't like him. I like him and it's gonna be a huge challenge for Gluten when he eventually has to replace him.

 

[Voyageur]

When I was much younger, I did some kicking and punting. Granted, I was a straight on toe-kicker, but the situation is the same. The ball, in cold weather, is like kicking a rock. It reacts differently, and isn't as resilient. Where I could punt over and over in warm weather practice, after about 4 punts in weather down in the 20° or lower range, my foot felt like I was kicking a bowling ball. When I did place kicks, the slightest variance, left/right/up/down, was amplified tremendously. As far as distance on both, subtract about 5-10 yards, and quite a bit of elevation. Fortunately I would use a hard square toed shoe for placement. It at least kept the pain away.

I wasn't good enough to make a name for myself, but I did understand the psyche of kicking, and the rhythm needed to do it. So much of it is muscle memory, and any deviation from it can be catastrophic. Ask Mason Crosby. He'll tell you.

Here's a pic of the type of shoe I wore when kicking.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[OldSchool101]

These are good points. It's not fair to compare Crosby to someone who kicks at an indoor stadium or a warm weather environment. I don't know how to handicap that - it seems like an infinitely complex and useless exercise. Again, subjectively, I've always liked Crosby. Considering the length of his career, all in Green Bay, he's done very well.

It's like comparing baseball players at the same position. There is no standard MLB ball park. Balls go farther in CO because of the thinner air, and the reverse is probably true for Miami.

So Crosby will have Packer fans who like him and don't like him. I like him and it's gonna be a huge challenge for Gluten when he eventually has to replace him.

Yeah. If I recall his postseason Kicking record was pretty good (better than his regular season at one point) and there was a healthy mix of outdoor colder stadiums. Obviously last season didn’t help his cause. Yet I think he’s a top 5 Kicker under pressure, be it High profile games, weather complications, etc.. He’s normally very focused

 

[Heyjoe4]

When I was much younger, I did some kicking and punting. Granted, I was a straight on toe-kicker, but the situation is the same. The ball, in cold weather, is like kicking a rock. It reacts differently, and isn't as resilient. Where I could punt over and over in warm weather practice, after about 4 punts in weather down in the 20° or lower range, my foot felt like I was kicking a bowling ball. When I did place kicks, the slightest variance, left/right/up/down, was amplified tremendously. As far as distance on both, subtract about 5-10 yards, and quite a bit of elevation. Fortunately I would use a hard square toed shoe for placement. It at least kept the pain away.

I wasn't good enough to make a name for myself, but I did understand the psyche of kicking, and the rhythm needed to do it. So much of it is muscle memory, and any deviation from it can be catastrophic. Ask Mason Crosby. He'll tell you.

Here's a pic of the type of shoe I wore when kicking.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Wow, talk about a shoe built for *** kicking (and field goals). I had to LOL when you mentioned the bowling ball. Ouch!

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah. If I recall his postseason Kicking record was pretty good (better than his regular season at one point) and there was a healthy mix of outdoor colder stadiums. Obviously last season didn’t help his cause. Yet I think he’s a top 5 Kicker under pressure, be it High profile games, weather complications, etc.. He’s normally very focused

Agreed. One thing about kicking in adverse conditions, both kickers face the same reality. I'd put my money on Crosby to make those kicks.

Now there are times when the weather conditions are so bad (heavy snow, ice, extreme wind) that kicking makes almost no sense.

 

[OldSchool101]

Wow, talk about a shoe built for *** kicking (and field goals). I had to LOL when you mentioned the bowling ball. Ouch!

Does” *** kicking” infer some type of snowflake kicking?

Those shoes remind me of some old fashioned hockey skates I used to have.

 

[Voyageur]

I remember those days, and skates. The support we had in our ankles was developing the muscles, not a skate that gave that support. We also didn't know what face masks were. We'd play on the ice on a lake near us, and nobody wanted to play goalie. I think you can guess why. It was always rock, paper, scissors, until two guys were the losers.

I was at my best in goal when I rolled up in a fetal position, with my rear facing the rink, to take those direct hits.

Since none of us had gloves, hacking caused some nasty swollen knuckles.

I just didn't like hockey that much to be honest. Did I mention, I still have my front teeth?

 

[gopkrs]

Now that I think of it, watching how the punting goes will be interesting.

 

[milani]

Do you know what's up with Crosby's knee?

Probably age. But then on the other sideline you got Robbie Gould who is even older than Crosby kicking a 50. But Gould has missed his share of regular season games.

 

[milani]

Green Bay has got to be #1 in difficulty. Combining Wind and Cold

There’s a few honorable mentions as far as difficulty (Gillette, Bills Stadium, Soldier Field etc..). Yet none can boast of Green Bay’s frigid temperatures crossed with Lake effect Wind.
Buffalo deals with that “Down Wind Jet stream” but is a smidge warmer, which oddly creates snow anomalies.
I recall from a storm ~30 years ago there was an area in the vicinity of Buffalo that literally recorded an average 10” daily over a 10 days period. Very Windy on that side of Erie

Speaking of Jet stream I recall that where the Jets play the wind is crazy depending on what end of the field you are on.

 

[PikeBadger]

I don't want to get into details once again but for most of his career Crosby hasn't even been an average kicker in the league. The numbers clearly support that notion.

Omg, here we go again.

Now all we need is for someone to start barking about how bad Jeff Janis, Brad Jones, Jarrett Bush, John Kuhn and Brian Bostick were for the Packers.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Omg, here we go again.

Now all we need is for someone to start barking about how bad Jeff Janis, Brad Jones, Jarrett Bush, John Kuhn and Brian Bostick were for the Packers.

Yeah I mean Crosby kicks in Green Bay. Not exactly ideal conditions compared to someone who kicks off artificial turf. It's not right to compare raw stats with no additional analysis, although I'm sure that's been done. IMO Crosby has been good for the Packers. Are there better kickers? Sure. A guy like Justin Tucker is just a freak. But guys like him happen as often as QBs like Rodgers.

 

[Voyageur]

years ago I saw stats on how both visiting and home kickers did in Lambeau Field. It was by far the worst stadium to kick in, and it effected both Packer and visiting kickers equally.

The stats, between visitor and Packer kickers were about dead even.

 

[Heyjoe4]

years ago I saw stats on how both visiting and home kickers did in Lambeau Field. It was by far the worst stadium to kick in, and it effected both Packer and visiting kickers equally.

The stats, between visitor and Packer kickers were about dead even.

That's interesting, thanks for the info V. I would think that Buffalo and maybe Foxboro would be up there two as awful places to kick. The point is that when a kicker plays half of his games in that environment, a straight on comparison with other kickers isn't meaningful. And I don't know how to handicap that to make meaningful comparisons with other kickers.

But we're all getting older, even Crosby. My guess is that he has a year, maybe two left. Personally, after all those years of devoting half your life to the game..... well it would add up. They make a lot of money and they give up a lot.

 

[sschind]

Omg, here we go again.

Now all we need is for someone to start barking about how bad Jeff Janis, Brad Jones, Jarrett Bush, John Kuhn and Brian Bostick were for the Packers.

Who says John Kuhn was bad?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Who says John Kuhn was bad?

I thought Kuhn was a good FB. How long was his career? It seemed short.

 

[OldSchool101]

That's interesting, thanks for the info V. I would think that Buffalo and maybe Foxboro would be up there two as awful places to kick. The point is that when a kicker plays half of his games in that environment, a straight on comparison with other kickers isn't meaningful. And I don't know how to handicap that to make meaningful comparisons with other kickers.

Good points.
For me anyway, the weather isn’t as much a factor compared to other stadiums until December-January area where one could argue 25 degrees vs 55 degrees etc.. until that temp variance spreads it’s not enough to create an valid argument. Also keep in mind that teams neglect the FG in harsh conditions or possibly only try FG inside 35 yarders etc.. to offset those other Kickers trying a 50 yarder in better weather.

My gut tells me that the annual cold-vs. warm weather kicking variance is less than 5% per season, meaning a 78% bad weather Kicker might otherwise be 80-83%.

 

[Voyageur]

Actually, when you look at the history of Packer kickers, you'll find that Crosby is 2nd all time in percentage. Only Longwell is ahead of him for a career.

Longwell 81.6%, Crosby 81.1%. There's a lot of kickers behind the two of them that people were excited about when they played in GB.

It's difficult kicking in GB no matter when the game is played, because of the heavy air off the bay, and swirling winds in the end zones. But, I'm not trying to change anyone's minds. We all gotta believe what we gotta believe.

NFL Kicking Stats

 

[PikeBadger]

Who says John Kuhn was bad?

Kuhn caught plenty of gas from some of the posters here.

 

[OldSchool101]

Actually, when you look at the history of Packer kickers, you'll find that Crosby is 2nd all time in percentage. Only Longwell is ahead of him for a career.

Longwell 81.6%, Crosby 81.1%. There's a lot of kickers behind the two of them that people were excited about when they played in GB.

It's difficult kicking in GB no matter when the game is played, because of the heavy air off the bay, and swirling winds in the end zones. But, I'm not trying to change anyone's minds. We all gotta believe what we gotta believe.

NFL Kicking Stats

Oh I’m not arguing GB isn’t a Difficult venue to kick FG in at all. Didn’t you notice I placed it #1?? I mean how much harder can you get than the hardest.

My point is is I don’t think it makes a 81.1% career Kicker 90% at Soldier Field. Consider also Crosby misses in domes and on the road, he’s not a 91.1% Kicker on the Road is he??

We must remember that All those Kicks (81.1%) didn’t happen at Lambeau. That 5% variance I extended to him is massive and possibly That puts him at 86.1% career?? Anything higher gets him in Justin Tucker territory. I think that’s getting excessive saying the wind at Lambeau makes him equivalent to Justin Tucker (10% variance)

 

[Voyageur]

Next, here's the list of all time career leaders in kicking. If you notice, our highest kicker in history is Longwell, at 34, and Crosby at 52. Next, without going through it all, look at the stadiums these leaders were kicking in. The tundra is not on their list, except at most, as a visitor, once a year.

All Time Kicking Leaders

 

[Voyageur]

Kuhn caught plenty of gas from some of the posters here.

I thought Kuhn was a darned good player. He could block, and when he did carry the ball, he did what was expected of him.