Packers Releasing Nick Perry

[Pokerbrat2000]

It should be noted that over a 2 period there is no advantage one way or the other. So, why choose the first option and not the second?

By foregoing the June 1 designation, the Packers get the $3.3 mil in savings now.

Had they taken the post-June 1 option they would have had to instead carry a chunk of Perry cap on the books until June 1. His contract data is now gone from the usual sites so I'm working from memory. His base salary for 2019 was I believe $5.4 mil and the Packers would also have to carry 1/3 of his 3 year singing bonus hangover which is $3.7 million. That's $9.1 mil in Perry cap the Packers would have to carry until June 1 while foregong the $3.3 mil in savings.

The result is that the first option is a net $12.4 mil add to cap now relative to the other option.

Had the Packers chosen the second option, the current cap space would be about $4.6 mil instead of about $17 mil.

The draft is on 4/25 - 4/27. If the Packers make no additional moves and had they taken the June 1 option there might not be enough cap to even sign the draft class which will have a Top 51 net cost around that number. It also provides additional cap to sign Wilkerson or some other lower priced player(s).

So what you are saying is.....Ball is threading the needle!

 

[hallzi43]

No. All that happens is moving the cap saving and dead money around from one time or year to the other.

Neither dead money nor cap is created or destroyed in one option vs. the other, cut now vs. post 6/1 designation. From a 2 year perspective there is no advantage to one or the other.

The advantage is that nothing costs against us in 2020. That is exactly what it says. Everything costs against us in 2019.

 

[HardRightEdge]

So what you are saying is.....Ball is threading the needle!

This is not Ball. Ball has marching orders unless you think he's actually making personnel decisions. He may be the guy laying out the June 1 option numbers and the like but that's not the overall thrust.

If you wind the clock back a few years you'd find a lot of Packer contracts were not backloaded or minimally so. Many of the multi-year deals had a pretty even spread of cap cost over the years. Rodgers last contract is indicative. As the pressure to win mounted, more contracts had cap backloaded.

Now we're backloading everything with cap costs nearly doubling from year 1 to year 2 in these contracts.

Ball was working contracts when they had a flattish spread; he's working contracts now with heavy backload. He's clearly not the variable. It's not Ball saying, "lets sign these 4 guys" or put an offer in for Bell if that rumor is even true.

There is a blueprint in place that says "win now" more than a balance. Whether that was set by Gutekunst or Murphy or both I could not say. Murphy must be approving of it. But the message to Ball is, "this is what we're doing, make it fit" or "this is what we want to do, how can it fit?"

 

[HardRightEdge]

The advantage is that nothing costs against us in 2020. That is exactly what it says. Everything costs against us in 2019.

The dead cap is in the signing bonus. That's cash paid already and cash always goes against the cap sooner or later. It can never go away. The June 1 option may show dead cap for 2020, but that's swapped for more cap space as of June 1 this year in exchange. Again, $ just get moved from one point in time or year to another.

From a two year aggregate perspective the numbers are the same.

 

[sschind]

The dead cap is in the signing bonus. That's cash paid already and cash always goes against the cap sooner or later. It can never go away. The June 1 option may show dead cap for 2020, but that's swapped for more cap space as of June 1 this year in exchange. Again, $ just get moved from one point in time or year to another.

From a two year aggregate perspective the numbers are the same.

You are right. It is going to cost the Packers the same in cap space over the two years no matter what. Teams need to decide if they need more cap space now or later this year or next year.

I get the feeling from your posts that you are a bit concerned about all the backloading of contracts. I'm not trying to be funny I am serious and I agree. The cap does keep going up so if we don't need any new players over the next 4 years the cap increase may cover it but I'm pretty sure we will have to sign new guys and their salaries are going to be higher. The 10 million a year average guy this year will be 12 next year and 14 the year after that. New signees may eat up a big chunk of the cap increase unless the back loaded deals get it first in which you new signees will be minimum wage type guys just to fill the roster.

One thing that is forgotten in all this, or maybe its the reason for it, is that the current CBA expires after 2020. I suppose we could expect a simple extension of the current deal with no, or maybe a few minor changes but its possible one side or the other decides they are getting the shaft (like last time) and some big changes throw everything out of whack. I honestly don't see the latter happening as I think both sides should be fairly satisfied now. Revenues are up, team values are up, players are getting more money than ever before and all seems right with the world. All it might take is one incident to change it all though (A huge lawsuit over safety concerns for example)

I know when the last CBA ended there was an uncapped year and everyone was afraid rich teams would give players tons of money in that year and less in others but they were smart enough to add provisions to prevent that (I think the cowboys still got caught though) Could it happen again. 2021 an uncapped year so Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder could offer top free agents deals with a 50-75 million dollar salary in 2021? I doubt it but it will be interesting to see what happens. Even with provisions in place it could be that our concerns for 2021 will end up being for naught. 2020 though could be a very big concern.

 

[sschind]

I have learned something new this offseason, the Post-June 1 Designation. While I was aware of it, I did not fully understand how it effected roster bonuses and the cap numbers.

Thank you Mr. Scchind!

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Don't worry, it will probably all change in the next CBA anyway.

 

[SoonerPack]

Had to happen. He will be remembered in my mind as one of the most frustrating guys in recent memory. When he was on he was very disruptive but he was off (the field) far too often. I hope he lands on his feet somewhere and I am sure the rehab facility will play into his decision making process if he has multiple suitors.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I get the feeling from your posts that you are a bit concerned about all the backloading of contracts. I'm not trying to be funny I am serious and I agree.

I am not concerned about backloading these contracts per se.

I am concerned about where the 2020 cap situation currently stands, sans Allison, Lewis or anybody else who comes along absorbing cap and others who might come along not in the current list of contracted players.

So, go here and click on the 2020 tab: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

I'm repeating myself here for about the 4th. time by I have no idea who has read what in the current morass of posts.

That's a $160 mil in cap committed to 31 player for 2020, only $10 mil less than what's committed currently to the Top 51. Now look at the 2020 FAs not in that list who are at this moment presumptive starters and key rotational players this year: Clark, Daniels, Bulaga, Martinez, T. Williams, Crosby, Fackrell, Lowry. Other FA names may be of interest:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2020/all/green-bay-packers/

The backloading of the contracts is a large contributing factor to my 2020 view under current conditions, not as some absolute, out-of-context objection.

If there were grand slam drafts in 2017 and 2018, a bunch of core and star players sitting on that list of 31 players with cheap rookie pay into 2020, then you're just looking to fill out the bench and even enhance with the 2019 and 2020 drafts.

That is not what is on on that list.

Another $10 mil in annual cap bump doesn't cut it.

Grand slam drafts in 2019 and 2020 would clean things up. That's a hopeful thought but if we are honest about it not likely.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Had to happen. He will be remembered in my mind as one of the most frustrating guys in recent memory. When he was on he was very disruptive but he was off (the field) far too often. I hope he lands on his feet somewhere and I am sure the rehab facility will play into his decision making process if he has multiple suitors.

The Packers cut Perry after he passed a physical, which if I'm not mistaken would have been a requirement.

He'll sign somewhere even if for only rotational purposes. He'll get a chance to resurrect his career. I'd say the odds are about even it will be as a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE.

 

[Dantés]

I'm guessing that they released Perry without the Post June 1 designation so that the bulk of the dead money tolls in 2019 and not 2020 (as they have pushed a lot of the cap hits of the new players into 2020 and beyond).

 

[HardRightEdge]

One thing that is forgotten in all this, or maybe its the reason for it, is that the current CBA expires after 2020. I suppose we could expect a simple extension of the current deal with no, or maybe a few minor changes but its possible one side or the other decides they are getting the shaft (like last time) and some big changes throw everything out of whack. I honestly don't see the latter happening as I think both sides should be fairly satisfied now. Revenues are up, team values are up, players are getting more money than ever before and all seems right with the world. All it might take is one incident to change it all though (A huge lawsuit over safety concerns for example)

I know when the last CBA ended there was an uncapped year and everyone was afraid rich teams would give players tons of money in that year and less in others but they were smart enough to add provisions to prevent that (I think the cowboys still got caught though) Could it happen again. 2021 an uncapped year so Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder could offer top free agents deals with a 50-75 million dollar salary in 2021? I doubt it but it will be interesting to see what happens. Even with provisions in place it could be that our concerns for 2021 will end up being for naught. 2020 though could be a very big concern.

Over the past week I've commented a couple of times on the 2020 CBA expiration as a possible factor in front office bahaviors in this free agent period. I've not seen anybody else make observations about it here until today.

As for the 2010 uncapped year being repeated in 2021, you'd have to look to the current CBA. The fact that 2010 was uncapped was a function of the previous CBA where that uncapped year was stipulated if a new CBA was not in place by a particular date. Does the current CBA have a similar provision? I don't know and I don't care that much at this juncture. 2021 is too far way, too opaque, for me to think about now except for the casual speculation for later consideration.

Checking out the current CBA could be someone's homework assignment.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm guessing that they released Perry without the Post June 1 designation so that the bulk of the dead money tolls in 2019 and not 2020 (as they have pushed a lot of the cap hits of the new players into 2020 and beyond).

No, they did what they did so that they could take $3.7 mil in cap savings now rather than carry about $9 mil in cap cost in Perry's name until June 1. That's about $12.7 mil swing in aditional cap space between now and June 1. Had they taken the June 1 option, current cap space would be down to $2-3 mil until June 1 when a big chunck of cap flows back in. They couldn't even sign the draft class without that move as things stand.

In fact, with deductions for just Allison and Lewis they'd be right at the cap limit until June 1.

It doesn't matter which year the dead cap is carried; it is a sunk cost in the same amout whichever option is chosen and in whatever year you post it. You might not want to look at that amount next year as some annoying reminder of a past mistake, but which year it is posted is not the relevant financial factor.

 

[Dantés]

No, they did what they did so that they could take $3.7 mil in cap savings now rather than carry about $9 mil in cap cost in Perry's name until June 1. That's about $12.7 mil swing in aditional cap space between now and June 1. Had they taken the June 1 option, current cap space would be down to $2-3 mil until June 1 when a big chunck of cap flows back in. They couldn't even sign the draft class without that move as things stand.

In fact, with deductions for just Allison and Lewis they'd be right at the cap limit until June 1.

It doesn't matter which year the dead cap is carried; it is a sunk cost in the same amout whichever option is chosen and in whatever year you post it. You might not want to look at that amount next year as some annoying reminder of a past mistake, but which year it is posted is not the relevant financial factor.

But carrying the dead cap hit in 2019 instead of spreading it out into 2020 with a post 6/1 designation means that they keep more space available next offseason when the caps hits of all the new acquisitions balloon.

 

[HardRightEdge]

But carrying the dead cap hit in 2019 instead of spreading it out into 2020 with a post 6/1 designation means that they keep more space available next offseason when the caps hits of all the new acquisitions balloon.

No, the amout of dead cap carried in 2020 with the June 1 option ($7.2 mil, 2 years of the signing bonus dead cap) would have been in exchange for $7.2 mil in additional cap as of June 1. If that sudden "windfall" of $7.2 mil cap was simply carried over to 2020, it washes out the $7.2 mil 2020 dead cap and you end up in the same place.

Over a 2 year period, the cap savings and dead cap are the same. It's just a matter of when you take savings and dead cap charges in varying amounts.

 

[Dantés]

No, the amout of dead cap carried in 2020 with the June 1 option ($7.2 mil, 2 years of the signing bonus dead cap) would have been in exchange for $7.2 mil in additional cap as of June 1. If that sudden "windfall" of $7.2 mil cap was simply carried over to 2020, it washes out the $7.2 mil 2020 dead cap and you end up in the same place.

Over a 2 year period, the cap savings and dead cap are the same. It's just a matter of when you take savings and dead cap charges in varying amounts.

Ok, I think I see what you're saying. They could have just carried over the extra 2019 savings and washed out the additional 2020 hit?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This last conversation of dueling caps reminded me of this video.

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[HardRightEdge]

Ok, I think I see what you're saying. They could have just carried over the extra 2019 savings and washed out the additional 2020 hit?

Correct.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This last conversation of dueling caps reminded me of this video.

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Of course. Peele in the orange hat to start represents the Browns, Key in the silver hat to start represents the Raiders. Then the dueling roster moves begin!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

One thing that is forgotten in all this, or maybe its the reason for it, is that the current CBA expires after 2020. I suppose we could expect a simple extension of the current deal with no, or maybe a few minor changes but its possible one side or the other decides they are getting the shaft (like last time) and some big changes throw everything out of whack. I honestly don't see the latter happening as I think both sides should be fairly satisfied now. Revenues are up, team values are up, players are getting more money than ever before and all seems right with the world. All it might take is one incident to change it all though (A huge lawsuit over safety concerns for example)

It seems the players aren't satisfied with the current CBA, possibly resulting in lengthy negotiations about a new one as well.

I know when the last CBA ended there was an uncapped year and everyone was afraid rich teams would give players tons of money in that year and less in others but they were smart enough to add provisions to prevent that (I think the cowboys still got caught though) Could it happen again. 2021 an uncapped year so Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder could offer top free agents deals with a 50-75 million dollar salary in 2021? I doubt it but it will be interesting to see what happens. Even with provisions in place it could be that our concerns for 2021 will end up being for naught. 2020 though could be a very big concern.

Over the past week I've commented a couple of times on the 2020 CBA expiration as a possible factor in front office bahaviors in this free agent period. I've not seen anybody else make observations about it here until today.

As for the 2010 uncapped year being repeated in 2021, you'd have to look to the current CBA. The fact that 2010 was uncapped was a function of the previous CBA where that uncapped year was stipulated if a new CBA was not in place by a particular date. Does the current CBA have a similar provision? I don't know and I don't care that much at this juncture. 2021 is too far way, too opaque, for me to think about now except for the casual speculation for later consideration.

Checking out the current CBA could be someone's homework assignment.

While there would be some rule changes for the 2020 season if a new CBA isn't signed before the start of that year it wouldn't be an uncapped season like in 2010.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26073422/nfl-cba-quirks-a-big-effect-2020-offseason

 

[SoonerPack]

The Packers cut Perry after he passed a physical, which if I'm not mistaken would have been a requirement.

He'll sign somewhere even if for only rotational purposes. He'll get a chance to resurrect his career. I'd say the odds are about even it will be as a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE.

My comment on the rehab facility was a joke that didn't land...

 

[HardRightEdge]

My comment on the rehab facility was a joke that didn't land...

It happens.