Packers GM Brian Gutekunst

[AmishMafia]

Had Captain said it did nothing at all for the roster or future I'd agree with you, but he said it did nothing for the chances of winning the Super Bowl though - which I'd say he means the present. Which even those of us that disagreed with the Love pick but are Love fans (myself) know that isn't a lie.

Not sure I conveyed my point well.

Rodgers was in serious decline for 4 years. There is no reason to think he was going to play better these last 2 seasons. Drafting Love reignited the chip on his shoulder and he once again focused on playing QB.

In other words: The Packers might not be a playoff team let alone a SB contender right now if the Packers didn't draft Love.

 

[tynimiller]

But that 3rd class is where things get to be inexcusable. The Love pick was horrible. This draft just made Gutenkunst look to me like he has no plan. You trade up for Love... despite having a top tier QB... Then you take a RB high which is fine... but then you resign Jone to a sizeable deal despite the dire cap crunch looming.

Sorry but cannot just let this go. Your hatred for the first pick and the actions taken to do it instantly created a blind bias towards this being a terrible draft, which it most definitely was not.

You had a QB which the staff (not just Gute) was high on and expected to go well before the 26th pick - they swung on it similar to the mindset with Rodgers pick years ago. Your STUD QB is aging and had shown signs of regressing slightly - with the team assuredly not falling to a top 5 pick in the future guaranteeing potentially a chance at a top level QB they took what they perceived and scouted as a top level QB later than they felt he should go. I wasn't a fan of it, wouldn't have done it but won't ignorantly claim there was no logic behind the move.

The rest of the draft was FAR from inexcusable. Gute knew he was losing one if not two of his two headed backfield (Williams/Jones) and took a STUD. A guy that has proven to be vastly better and more skilled than so many here even thought was possible. All he has done is grab nearly every pass thrown at him, ran over DL and through LBs like it is nothing and helped provide a two headed backfield I don't think we've had anything close to in YEARS if not my whole life....and we are only two picks in.

Then we draft a TE out of Cinci that fits MLF system to a "T" - performed in many ways better than and holds records over the other STUD NFL TEs that have come out of Cinci over the years in Deguara. Gets hurt his rookie year, and like most young TE has illustrated massive growing pains at times, but of late has been showcasing what the staff and Gute saw years ago when drafted. Too rich for me in the 3rd...but we had no 4th and the staff was clearly high on him. At worst we have a guy that lately has proven he can handle 30+ snaps a game in an offense that has proven deadly....such an inexcusable pick...wait no it wasn't.

The 5th round was a swing at an oober athletic but injured Martin, did not pan out. Cannot and will not bat perfect in a draft. Even this failure wasn't inexcusable to anyone that understands that on Day 3 there are no guarantees.

6th round found us drafting three OL, two of which I was personally high on and one has become a starter in his second year, and an above average starter at that with TONS of growth left in the tank. He even saw valuable reserve snaps as a rookie (Runyan). Hanson was a long term Center project, the sign of the Menet signing and Myers draft shows Hanson is most likely just a depth reserve guy for his rookie contract....which for 6th round is about all you can hope for...Runyan in the 6th was a homerun. Triple at worst. Simon Stepniak had INSANE strength and from contacts inside organization they hoped they read him similar to Yosh and would grow into something, didn't work out. We are 7 picks in and just leaving the 6th and we have essentially already a starting caliber RB, a currently starting #2 TE (due to injury but still), a starting OG and two depth guys....DAMN fine draft - and that is with the unknown Love pick ignored!

7th round honest to God were steals, both of them. Vernon Scott and Garvin out the gate proved they were not going to be 7th round cuts. Scott saw playing time as a rookie as did Garvin - now in 2021 Scott has had some nagging injuries but Garvin has seen over 40% of the defensive snaps, started a game even and has 1.5 sacks for us. His growth has been more expedited than even those of us that liked him entering the draft as a late Day3 or target UDFA could have ever predicted. His PFF grade is near 60.0 for the year and out of a raw second year guy not expected by many to even hold a spot is awesome.

So I'm sorry declaring the 2020 draft as inexcusable is just PURE ignorance. One can make the argument that perhaps the Love pick is inexcusable speaking solely to the impact on the 2020 season or SB chances in the present term - I hear anyone there for sure....but you're just either trolling or with purpose choosing to be ignorant.

Also you cannot leave the 2021 draft out of your "Gute ignorance" attack....Gave us 3 starters, only one non-active roster guy, a #3RB and depth needed at DB and DL.

 

[El Guapo]

Gutekunst jumped on what he thought was his Ted Thompson moment to draft the next QB of the future. People were irate at Thompson for drafting Rodgers. He was no shoe-in and it strained the Favre relationship. In the end, it was the best move that Thompson ever made.

The Packers are almost always .500 or better meaning that we almost always draft at the bottom of the first round. We never would have gotten a top QB without having a terrible 2-or-3 win season. Gutekunst saw an opportunity to get what he thinks is the next QB for Green Bay. I have ZERO issue with that. The question is will it pan out.

Fans focus on this year. Good GMs focus on the long term. Hence why most fans call GMs idiots. The fans can't see beyond their own feet and GMs have to make best guesses about the future, hoping that their decisions from two or three years ago make winning possible now.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

Yeah it’s hard to argue with the facts.

I don't think you know what "fact" and "opinion" means. LITERALLY, not one word of that post was factual.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

Had Captain said it did nothing at all for the roster or future I'd agree with you, but he said it did nothing for the chances of winning the Super Bowl though - which I'd say he means the present. Which even those of us that disagreed with the Love pick but are Love fans (myself) know that isn't a lie.

But what if it did. I agree, the drafting of Love may have positively impacted Rodgers to "prove" to Packer management why that was a slight (or whatever he thinks). His play the last season and a half makes the Packers more of a legitimate Super Bowl contender than the previous seasons (probably should have been in the Super Bowl last year with a solid chance to win it). I think you could possibly link that to the Love pick. It makes some kind of sense.

 

[tynimiller]

But what if it did. I agree, the drafting of Love may have positively impacted Rodgers to "prove" to Packer management why that was a slight (or whatever he thinks). His play the last season and a half makes the Packers more of a legitimate Super Bowl contender than the previous seasons (probably should have been in the Super Bowl last year with a solid chance to win it). I think you could possibly link that to the Love pick. It makes some kind of sense.

Wish we still had the "creative" reaction, this is a spin on it one could argue for sure.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Rodgers was in serious decline for 4 years. There is no reason to think he was going to play better these last 2 seasons. Drafting Love reignited the chip on his shoulder and he once again focused on playing QB.

In other words: The Packers might not be a playoff team let alone a SB contender right now if the Packers didn't draft Love.

Rodgers entering his second season in MLF's system was definitely reason to believe that his performance would improve in 2020. In addition it's extremely exaggerated to suggest he was in serious decline from 2016-19 when considering he threw for 107 touchdowns and only 19 interceptions over those four seasons.

On the other side it's pure speculation that drafting Love had anything to do with Rodgers returning to an MVP level last year.

We are 7 picks in and just leaving the 6th and we have essentially already a starting caliber RB, a currently starting #2 TE (due to injury but still), a starting OG and two depth guys....DAMN fine draft - and that is with the unknown Love pick ignored!

It seems I have lost track but who is the second depth guy you're talking about?

Fans focus on this year. Good GMs focus on the long term. Hence why most fans call GMs idiots. The fans can't see beyond their own feet and GMs have to make best guesses about the future, hoping that their decisions from two or three years ago make winning possible now.

With the Packers having a HOF quarterback getting up there in age, coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous season it was not the right time to trade up in the first round to select a quarterback for the future though.

But what if it did. I agree, the drafting of Love may have positively impacted Rodgers to "prove" to Packer management why that was a slight (or whatever he thinks). His play the last season and a half makes the Packers more of a legitimate Super Bowl contender than the previous seasons (probably should have been in the Super Bowl last year with a solid chance to win it). I think you could possibly link that to the Love pick. It makes some kind of sense.

In my opinion it doesn't make any sense and is just an excuse for a lot of fans to somehow justify the selection of Love.

 

[Krabs]

Rodgers was in serious decline for 4 years. There is no reason to think he was going to play better these last 2 seasons. Drafting Love reignited the chip on his shoulder and he once again focused on playing QB.

I can't agree with this. "Serious" decline for 4 years is just not accurate. I would argue his play declined a little bit and also the roster around him talent wise was not there.

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He had two seasons where his touchdowns went down. 2017 he was injured. Agree there was a decline, but it was not "serious". And again, look at the roster he was working with. At one point Geronimo Allison was a top target. What I would agree with is that his play was elevated after the Love pick. Was it because of that, or was it because the roster was revamped? Could be a combination. The thing I can't get behind is that his play was in serious decline.

 

[AmishMafia]

I can't agree with this. "Serious" decline for 4 years is just not accurate. I would argue his play declined a little bit and also the roster around him talent wise was not there.

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He had two seasons where his touchdowns went down. 2017 he was injured. Agree there was a decline, but it was not "serious". And again, look at the roster he was working with. At one point Geronimo Allison was a top target. What I would agree with is that his play was elevated after the Love pick. Was it because of that, or was it because the roster was revamped? Could be a combination. The thing I can't get behind is that his play was in serious decline.

To my eye, he just was not as sharp as he was in the past. Missing open receivers; not seeing open receivers; his release wasn't as snappy; and didn't 'throw open' wrs. Off the field he seemed irritable and 'dark'. Reports he was in conflict with the coaches and most teammates didn't like him were circulating. His body language during games showed these rumors might be true and his leadership was greatly lacking.

 

[Krabs]

To my eye, he just was not as sharp as he was in the past. Missing open receivers; not seeing open receivers; his release wasn't as snappy; and didn't 'throw open' wrs. Off the field he seemed irritable and 'dark'. Reports he was in conflict with the coaches and most teammates didn't like him were circulating. His body language during games showed these rumors might be true and his leadership was greatly lacking.

A lot of things had grown stale under the old regime. Change was needed and it has went well.

 

[Voyageur]

Gutenkunst is probably the best of all the idiot GMs in the league which is what is so infuriating. I will crown him if he can successfully navigate his was through this awful cap mess hes made. IMO if Love does not become one of the top 10 QBs in the league its a fireable offense. He already had a star QB he was just too blind or stupid to see the offense he built around Rodgers lacked weapons and was in a brand new offense. There would be a struggle. It never occurred to Gutenkunst that maybe the 3 WRs he drafted in his first class werent good or that he had massively overpaid Jimmy Graham. Dont even get me started on that awful Billy Turner deal. The most criminal of all is the King resigning...

His first draft class was atrocious. He got Alexander and blundered the rest. MVS and ESB are ok for where they were taken but neither has developed into a reliable #2 or 3 and neither are very good teams players. His 2nd class was pretty good but I felt he missed on a lot of value, namely DK who I correctly predicted was a top 16 talent. But that 3rd class is where things get to be inexcusable. The Love pick was horrible. This draft just made Gutenkunst look to me like he has no plan. You trade up for Love... despite having a top tier QB... Then you take a RB high which is fine... but then you resign Jone to a sizeable deal despite the dire cap crunch looming. The $10M going to Jones I would rather use to keep Adams and restructure Rodgers. Instead we are damn near guaranteed to lose and probably both. And this last class I really didnt mind too much but how do you miss on Creed umprey who was clearly the best C in the class. And I do really like Myers, thought it was a good pick, but hes nowhere near the athlete or technician Humphrey was in college.

Interesting perspectives. It makes me curious as to how much involvement, past and present, Russ Ball, and Mark Murphy have had in the decision making aspect of the draft/free agency. It could be that the way this all started, as a 3-headed monster, had some kinks in it that have been worked out.

Although I wasn't in favor of the initial structure, or the initial draft, and what appeared to be communications problems, I have to give credit to Gutey for the moves that have been made. He has done a great job stocking the shelves. It sounds like he has some solid talent evaluators working with him.

The hire of Barry to run the defense looks good, so far. Let's hope this isn't a honeymoon year and the wheels fall off next year. I have high hopes.

 

[El Guapo]

With the Packers having a HOF quarterback getting up there in age, coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous season it was not the right time to trade up in the first round to select a quarterback for the future though.

That's a BS proposition from the cheap seats. If Love is our QB of the future (and obviously Gute felt that way), then you do it when the opportunity presents itself...not waiting until the next year hoping that lightning strikes twice. How many times in the past twenty some years have the Packers had a real opportunity to draft a potential franchise QB? There's 2005 and 2020. When else?

 

[PackAttack12]

To my eye, he just was not as sharp as he was in the past. Missing open receivers; not seeing open receivers; his release wasn't as snappy; and didn't 'throw open' wrs. Off the field he seemed irritable and 'dark'. Reports he was in conflict with the coaches and most teammates didn't like him were circulating. His body language during games showed these rumors might be true and his leadership was greatly lacking.

Not going to push back a whole lot because I've always had a ton of respect for how you back up your opinions, but the narrative of serious decline for 4 years is something I struggle to understand where you're coming from.

Rodgers played some of the best ball I've ever seen a quarterback play late in 2016 and finished top 3 in MVP voting.

In 2017, he had a sort of slow start the first couple games, as he's been known to do at times, but check out his last three games leading up to the collarbone injury. He was in top form prior to the injury.

2018 he just didn't play all that well. A lot of that was on him, a lot of that was due to playing a stale offensive scheme with less talent than he had ever had to work with before. In McCarthy's offense, you HAVE to have playmakers even if you're the great Aaron Rodgers. The knee injury wasn't ideal either.

2019 first year of a new system. There were some great moments, but he obviously wasn't primetime 2011 AR either. Anyone expecting high level play especially early on wasn't being all that realistic. Nevertheless, he didn't play his greatest.

So by my count, he was playing high level football up until the collarbone injury in 2017. So that leaves 2018 and 2019 of "declined" play, of which there are a myriad of other factors to consider. Not to absolve Rodgers completely, but it just what it is.

 

[red4tribe]

"Serious" decline might be an exaggeration, but I was skeptical that Rodgers would ever return to his 2009-14 heights. His 2015-19 seasons were well below the numbers he had put up earlier in his career. His completion percentage dropped from 66.3% to 62.9% (not very good) and his passer rating from 109 to 97.5 (good, but not great). Obviously, there were non-Rodgers factors at play, most notably I think the lack of a deep WR group as he had early in his career. Any predictions that Rodgers was on the decline were of course very wrong, but if that's what Gute believed, he wouldn't be without some reason.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Interesting perspectives. It makes me curious as to how much involvement, past and present, Russ Ball, and Mark Murphy have had in the decision making aspect of the draft/free agency. It could be that the way this all started, as a 3-headed monster, had some kinks in it that have been worked out.

Russ Ball is definitely involved in decisions in free agency as he's responsible for managing the cap. He shouldn't be evaluating players as he has never worked in any capacity doing that though.

Murphy should completely stay out of football operations and focus on keeping the franchise financially sound.

That's a BS proposition from the cheap seats. If Love is our QB of the future (and obviously Gute felt that way), then you do it when the opportunity presents itself...not waiting until the next year hoping that lightning strikes twice. How many times in the past twenty some years have the Packers had a real opportunity to draft a potential franchise QB? There's 2005 and 2020. When else?

Just to name a few examples, in 2012 the Packers could have drafted Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins, in 2014 Derek Carr, in 2016 Dak Prescott and in 2018 Lamar Jackson but smartly didn't because they had a future HOF quarterback starting who was pretty adamant about wanting to play into his 40s.

They should have done the same in last year's draft instead of trading up for Love.

 

[Voyageur]

Russ Ball is definitely involved in decisions in free agency as he's responsible for managing the cap. He shouldn't be evaluating players as he has never worked in any capacity doing that though.

Murphy should completely stay out of football operations and focus on keeping the franchise financially sound.

Ball doesn't have to evaluate players. He takes the evaluations given to him, then he would more than likely determine if the ROI is acceptable, within the confines of the cap. In reality, that would mean he'd effect who is, and isn't retained, or signed as a free agent.

Murphy should stay out of the football operations, but it's obvious, from his decision to have Ball, Gutey, and LeFleur all answer to him, that he has his fingers in the decision making. At what level, it's hard to say. Hopefully he's staying as clear as possible.

 

[gopkrs]

Just wanted to give my two cents about two things. 1. I thought Rodgers was declining. What bothered me most was that he was not leading his receivers. He would throw the ball right to the body or a bit behind. It's a catch, but the receiver does not have much of a chance to run with it. That has improved a lot imho. 2. If Murphy is involved at all in player personnel; well we have been doing pretty good with it this year. The only really bad thing was low balling a possible good special teams coach.

 

[AmishMafia]

Not going to push back a whole lot because I've always had a ton of respect for how you back up your opinions, but the narrative of serious decline for 4 years is something I struggle to understand where you're coming from.

Rodgers played some of the best ball I've ever seen a quarterback play late in 2016 and finished top 3 in MVP voting.

In 2017, he had a sort of slow start the first couple games, as he's been known to do at times, but check out his last three games leading up to the collarbone injury. He was in top form prior to the injury.

2018 he just didn't play all that well. A lot of that was on him, a lot of that was due to playing a stale offensive scheme with less talent than he had ever had to work with before. In McCarthy's offense, you HAVE to have playmakers even if you're the great Aaron Rodgers. The knee injury wasn't ideal either.

2019 first year of a new system. There were some great moments, but he obviously wasn't primetime 2011 AR either. Anyone expecting high level play especially early on wasn't being all that realistic. Nevertheless, he didn't play his greatest.

So by my count, he was playing high level football up until the collarbone injury in 2017. So that leaves 2018 and 2019 of "declined" play, of which there are a myriad of other factors to consider. Not to absolve Rodgers completely, but it just what it is.

Not how I remember things. And maybe as Redtribe stated the word "serious" may be an exaggeration on my part.

Seems to me it was pretty well accepted by most posters that Rodgers wasn't playing well. Maybe partly to blame was the WR Corps, but AR was missing open passes and not seeing open WRs far more than ever. But for me it was his attitude. Snearing glances at the sidelines and all that told me something has changed.


Here is a post of yours from the thread above::

You will find no bigger fan of Aaron Rodgers than me, I can assure you.

That being said, he isn't playing up to his standards for much of the season. Now a lot of it early on could be explained by the knee injury that limited his mobility to the point that he couldn't be effective in the manner that he's accustomed to being effective. But he worked through that, and now here we are and he's still missing some throws that he normally makes.

So Rodgers deserves some blame, no question about it.

But he is not the biggest problem with the Green Bay Packers. Not by a long shot.

What we can hope for at this point is that we find either a head coach or an offensive coordinator that energizes him elevate his play to a point in which we've seen it many times over the years.

The scheme isn't doing him or the offense any favors. It's outdated and ran its course. There is a change that is needed for the Packers to return to relevance.

Like I've said repeatedly, relying upon Aaron Rodgers to be all time great every time he laces 'em up isn't going to get us to the promised land. He needs support, from the talent around him, to the scheme, to game management, etc. All of which can be improved. And hopefully, his play improves as well.

To me, he played at an elite level last year - although definitely skill wise he has declined a bit. He still is very smart in the pocket and compensates for his age with experience.

I believe his accuracy has declined. He still makes a few incredible throws per game but there are more clunkers in there as well.

 

[PackAttack12]

Not how I remember things. And maybe as Redtribe stated the word "serious" may be an exaggeration on my part.

Seems to me it was pretty well accepted by most posters that Rodgers wasn't playing well. Maybe partly to blame was the WR Corps, but AR was missing open passes and not seeing open WRs far more than ever. But for me it was his attitude. Snearing glances at the sidelines and all that told me something has changed.

If that's not how you remember things, then there's nothing I can do about your recall. But it's a fact he finished 3rd in MVP voting in 2016.

And it's my opinion that he was playing elite ball leading up to the collarbone injury in 2017. Game winning drive in OT against Cincy, complete demolition of the Bears, and game winning drive against the Cowboys.

Here is a post of yours from the thread above::

And if I do say so myself, I pretty much nailed every point in that post. I do think that things were growing stale under McCarthy, I think AR needed some form of rejuvenation. And I think that, the way the Packers allowed the offensive skill position players to dwindle so badly, it effected his level of play in 2018. McCarthy's scheme just doesn't work if there aren't great skill position players, along with a really, really good quarterback.

LaFleur has given Rodgers more support in the scheme (as big a Rodgers fan as I am, LaFleur is getting pretty close for me).

I'll agree Rodgers has "declined" some, but a lot of it is natural ability not being what it used to due to the age. But he's playing as well as you could possibly expect a 38 year old quarterback to play.

So the only thing I'll concede is that 2018 and 2019 weren't great Rodgers years. But the last year of a stale coach and a stale scheme, along with the first year in a completely different offensive system have a ton to do with that.

Additionally, I think many don't give enough credit to how well Rodgers played in 2019 especially late in games to close them out.

 

[Voyageur]

And it's my opinion that he was playing elite ball leading up to the collarbone injury in 2017. Game winning drive in OT against Cincy, complete demolition of the Bears, and game winning drive against the Cowboys.

This was my recollection of his play too. His game went down after the injury, and stayed that way until he no longer had an injury. That played out over a second year as well. I don't consider those "down years." I considered them years where he did the best he could with the injury hindering him, and changing the dynamics of his throws.

 

[AKCheese]

The big question at the end of this year is do you commit to him playing well into his 40’s or do you retool the team. If another team is willing to give up substantial draft capital I’d grab it in a heartbeat.

 

[Voyageur]

The big question at the end of this year is do you commit to him playing well into his 40’s or do you retool the team. If another team is willing to give up substantial draft capital I’d grab it in a heartbeat.

I have the same question in mind. We can have opinions on it, but that's all they are. When the season is over, the front office is going to sit down and go over the cash situation, and the future. If they do decide they want to try to keep him, how receptive will he be to any offers they may put on the table?

We can all have opinions, and that's good. In the end, it will be Rodgers and the Packers organization that will make the final decisions. The big complication would be if they went on and actually won the Super Bowl this year. It would set up a real situation for everyone.

 

[red4tribe]

If that's not how you remember things, then there's nothing I can do about your recall. But it's a fact he finished 3rd in MVP voting in 2016.

And it's my opinion that he was playing elite ball leading up to the collarbone injury in 2017. Game winning drive in OT against Cincy, complete demolition of the Bears, and game winning drive against the Cowboys.


And if I do say so myself, I pretty much nailed every point in that post. I do think that things were growing stale under McCarthy, I think AR needed some form of rejuvenation. And I think that, the way the Packers allowed the offensive skill position players to dwindle so badly, it effected his level of play in 2018. McCarthy's scheme just doesn't work if there aren't great skill position players, along with a really, really good quarterback.

LaFleur has given Rodgers more support in the scheme (as big a Rodgers fan as I am, LaFleur is getting pretty close for me).

I'll agree Rodgers has "declined" some, but a lot of it is natural ability not being what it used to due to the age. But he's playing as well as you could possibly expect a 38 year old quarterback to play.

So the only thing I'll concede is that 2018 and 2019 weren't great Rodgers years. But the last year of a stale coach and a stale scheme, along with the first year in a completely different offensive system have a ton to do with that.

Additionally, I think many don't give enough credit to how well Rodgers played in 2019 especially late in games to close them out.

Rodgers had a really great run from the end of 2016 into early 2017. But that streak was something of an aberration between 2015-2019. 2015 was arguably the worst season of his career, the first half of 2016 wasn't much better, and then 2018 and 2019 were mediocre by his standards. Yes, Rodgers' standards are sky-high, so he was still better than most, but the numbers do suggest he fell off after 2014.

From 2009-2014, Rodgers had a 109 passer rating, 66.3% completion percentage, 8.4 yards per attempt, and averaged 36 TDs and 8 INTs per 16 games.

From 2015 to 2019, Rodgers had a 97.5 passer rating, 62.9% completion percentage, 7.1 yards per attempt, and averaged 31 TDs and 6 INTs per 16 games. So his number didn't fall off a cliff, but clearly, they were well below what he did the previous six years. League-wide in 2019, his passer rating, completion percentage, and Y/A during that stretch would have ranked 12th, 19th, and 17th respectively. Not great. I do remember wondering if Rodgers would ever get back to the all-time greatness he displayed from 2009-2014. I didn't think the problems were physical, but I wondered if the league had caught up to him.

The way I think about it at least is that Rodgers' career as a starter can really be divided into three chapters. The first, up to 2014, saw him put up some of the greatest numbers ever and he headed some of the most prolific offenses in NFL history. The second, from 2015 to 2019, saw something of a lull. Good numbers, but not great, and teams that were not as strong as those in his early years. Some of that is attributed to a weaker WR group, McCarthy's staleness on offense, and bad drafts. Since 2020, we've seen another chapter that's basically been a renaissance where he's putting up numbers that rival or even surpass what he did early in his career. That's just how I break it down in my head.

In terms of physical decline, the only thing I've noticed is that he isn't quite as mobile anymore. The arm strength and accuracy are all still there, but I don't think he escapes sacks as well as he once did and his ability to scramble has fallen off a bit. But obviously, he's proven that he doesn't need 27-year-old legs to be the top QB in the league.

 

[Voyageur]

Judging a QB against himself when he may have had a better team around him, was 10 years younger, and when he wasn't injured to how he performs at a given time is not really an honest evaluation.

To everyone who believed his game has slipped, it slipped so far last year that he was MVP. But, because they didn't win the Lombardi Trophy, it's all on him? You're probably going to be waiting the rest of your life to see a run of two QBs like we've had in Favre and Rodgers, and probably never see it again.

Until I see him being unable to perform at the level we've seen this year, I'm going to assume he's a pretty good QB, and capable of leading a team with decent talent to a Super Bowl win. In fact, it might happen this year. Wouldn't that be a gob smack for those who have already written him off as being too old to lead them to a championship.

What makes me wonder is why people didn't learn from the Tom Brady situation. Brady and Rodgers come from the same mold, and do whatever they can to stay healthy and on the field. It's so difficult trying to honestly judge when they will hang 'em up.

 

[Poppa San]

And if I do say so myself, I pretty much nailed every point in that post. I do think that things were growing stale under McCarthy, I think AR needed some form of rejuvenation. And I think that, the way the Packers allowed the offensive skill position players to dwindle so badly, it effected his level of play in 2018. McCarthy's scheme just doesn't work if there aren't great skill position players, along with a really, really good quarterback.

The stale scheme doesn't explain the skip passes to the flat or the forced 30 yard downfield pass into double coverage while the wide open run all day crossing route at 10 yards was ignored.