Packers GM Brian Gutekunst

[tynimiller]

I should emphasize that the reason I believe this is about Aaron Rodgers himself…. I really think that as a player that he is so far above almost everyone that had ever played the QB position… that trying to draw parallels is impossible. He may have his personality issues, but as a player on the field … he stands alone.

Which is why no one is saying any of the examples is similar in the abilities of the QBs to Rodgers. Either way doesn't matter - most of us understand most coins have two sides.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

However in this case I actually agree with Wimm that the examples given do not compare closely enough with the Packers situation to be relevant.

I agree that none of the examples I or others have sited are exactly the same, how could they be? However, the Packers themselves did it in the 2005 draft and some of the other examples I gave were done with way higher picks than what the Packers used on Love. The same situation? No, but it won't be the first time or the last time that a player is selected that was BPA and not one that fills the highest immediate need. Rashan Gary was an even higher draft pick and we had already signed the Smith Brothers. In all honesty, that pick surprised me more than the Love pick, but it has turned out well. I haven't shut the book on the Love pick turning out well either and to keep that open, I kind of have to understand and somewhat agree with the pick.

 

[swhitset]

I agree that none of the examples I or others have sited are exactly the same, how could they be? However, the Packers themselves did it in the 2005 draft and some of the other examples I gave were done with way higher picks than what the Packers used on Love. The same situation? No, but it won't be the first time or the last time that a player is selected that was BPA and not one that fills the highest immediate need. Rashan Gary was an even higher draft pick and we had already signed the Smith Brothers. In all honesty, that pick surprised me more than the Love pick, but it has turned out well. I haven't shut the book on the Love pick turning out well either and to keep that open, I kind of have to understand and somewhat agree with the pick.

I understand your points… but my post above is really my biggest argument against the Love pick. I consider it a mistake because it had the potential to make Rodgers want to leave. Gute should have known this at the time… therefore in my opinion… that makes the pick a mistake. Whether Rodgers ultimately stays or goes is irrelevant.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I consider it a mistake because it had the potential to make Rodgers want to leave. Gute should have known this at the time… therefore in my opinion… that makes the pick a mistake. Whether Rodgers ultimately stays or goes is irrelevant.

I get that, but seems Rodgers wasn't happy about quite a few moves that didn't involve Love. I agree with your post about Rodgers and having to take the good with the bad, but at what point do you draw the line? I honestly think that had Gute called Rodgers and said "Hey, just want you to know, we might be taking a QB in the draft, but this doesn't change our viewpoint of you being our Franchise QB moving forward."

 

[milani]

Except as Captain pointed out… they aren’t really similar. Just drafting a QB when you already have one certainly doesn‘t meet the criteria necessary to argue that the Packers drafting Love was a good idea. I said it at the draft, and will continue to say it was a terrible decision to draft Love when they did. Not the least of which was the fact that, they better than anyone else, knew how Rodgers would react. In a perfect world, should Rodgers just shut up and play QB? Absolutely…. But the Packers should have been very aware of the problems it would cause. In almost every other case, I would say “tough” let the player deal with it. BUT Rodgers talent and what he means to this team has to transcend the normal way of doing things. Giving deference to his “whims” is a necessary evil that in this very unique situation is/was what is best for the team. Do I, or should Gute, like this? Nope. But he should have been smart enough to recognize it.

All of this being said, overall I think Gute has done a phenomenal job building this team and drafting Love should not be seen as his defining moment.

I believe Gute was not only thinking of well into the future. When he came into the job he also realized that GB had not had a decent back up QB since the Hasselback days with possibly the exception of Matt Flynn against an average team. We never even found a decent experienced back up like a Jake McCown or a Charlie Batch. So he was looking at this a few ways. Rodgers goes down with injury and he has someone that might do something now but also in the future if Rodgers is unable to come back. I do not think it was so much a matter of putting Rodgers out to pasture or not wanting to pay him. The team has to do much better than Brett Hundley and Scott Tolzien. Those two seasons Rodgers went down were rather dismal.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I believe Gute was not only thinking of well into the future. When he came into the job he also realized that GB had not had a decent back up QB since the Hasselback days with possibly the exception of Matt Flynn against an average team. We never even found a decent experienced back up like a Jake McCown or a Charlie Batch. So he was looking at this a few ways. Rodgers goes down with injury and he has someone that might do something now but also in the future if Rodgers is unable to come back. I do not think it was so much a matter of putting Rodgers out to pasture or not wanting to pay him. The team has to do much better than Brett Hundley and Scott Tolzien. Those two seasons Rodgers went down were rather dismal.

I agree with you, that it was an added potential benefit, but not the primary reason Love was drafted. I am going to beat someone to it, because your conclusion is one I brought up once and I think it might have been Captain that quickly pointed out that you shouldn't use first round picks on backups.

Personally, I prefer a veteran QB to be the backup on a team that is headed to the playoffs. I still wouldn't be all that excited about Love taking over if that happens to Rodgers. Maybe in year 3 or 4 he will be more prepared and who knows, he just may still be Rodgers back up when his 4 year contract expires, that is better than selling cars.

 

[PackAttack12]

Except as Captain pointed out… they aren’t really similar. Just drafting a QB when you already have one certainly doesn‘t meet the criteria necessary to argue that the Packers drafting Love was a good idea. I said it at the draft, and will continue to say it was a terrible decision to draft Love when they did. Not the least of which was the fact that, they better than anyone else, knew how Rodgers would react. In a perfect world, should Rodgers just shut up and play QB? Absolutely…. But the Packers should have been very aware of the problems it would cause. In almost every other case, I would say “tough” let the player deal with it. BUT Rodgers talent and what he means to this team has to transcend the normal way of doing things. Giving deference to his “whims” is a necessary evil that in this very unique situation is/was what is best for the team. Do I, or should Gute, like this? Nope. But he should have been smart enough to recognize it.

All of this being said, overall I think Gute has done a phenomenal job building this team and drafting Love should not be seen as his defining moment.

Damn good summation. Couldn't agree more. There are special players sometimes that play by a different set of rules. One doesn't have to like it, but it's the reality of it.

 

[PackAttack12]

I agree that none of the examples I or others have sited are exactly the same, how could they be? However, the Packers themselves did it in the 2005 draft and some of the other examples I gave were done with way higher picks than what the Packers used on Love. The same situation? No, but it won't be the first time or the last time that a player is selected that was BPA and not one that fills the highest immediate need. Rashan Gary was an even higher draft pick and we had already signed the Smith Brothers. In all honesty, that pick surprised me more than the Love pick, but it has turned out well. I haven't shut the book on the Love pick turning out well either and to keep that open, I kind of have to understand and somewhat agree with the pick.

The reason there aren't situations even close to being the same is because most organizations don't put a succession plan into motion when the current QB just led a team to 13-3 and a NFCCG appearance, along with said quarterback expressing the desire to play into his 40's.

Trying to compare Rashan Gary to the Love pick, or like earlier in the thread talking about drafting Dillon pissing Jones off is apples to kittens. None of these guys are 1st ballot HOFers, and it's standard for more than one back and more than one LBer to be on the field throughout the course of a game. There's only one quarterback.

I understand your points… but my post above is really my biggest argument against the Love pick. I consider it a mistake because it had the potential to make Rodgers want to leave. Gute should have known this at the time… therefore in my opinion… that makes the pick a mistake. Whether Rodgers ultimately stays or goes is irrelevant.

Honestly though swhit, I think this is what Gute was hoping for because he both 1. wanted to redefine the Packers the same was Thompson did and 2. (and most importantly), Gute had no idea Rodgers would play like, and win, the MVP in 2020 and be the front runner in 2021 to do it again with 2 weeks left. Gute miscalculated how much Rodgers has left. Rodgers caught him with his pants at his ankles and now he and the Packers are in damage control mode.

 

[thequick12]

As much as I think Gute wanted to transition to 'his' guy and to really put his stamp on the Packers, I don't think he believed Rodgers would reel off 2 straight MVP type seasons.

If so, I highly doubt he selects Love.

Youd hope not but that was a pretty big lack of faith in the best qb in nfl history...now I dont think the Love pick was wasted if he proves to be a above avg backup for the remainder of his rookie deal or til hes traded

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Would never say he is a HOFer. We are listing similar, not identical situations.

The situations listed aren't even close to being similar though.

I have time and time again said I wouldn't have done it, however it is a case where a team has a clear starter, yet chose to spend high draft equity on a back up. The refusal to purely acknowledge a similarity in fear that this would be taken as someone supporting the pick of Love is hilarious. No one with an IQ which is measurable would ever make that leap of a conclusion.

As mentioned before in this thread, none of the teams in the examples listed had a clear starter at the point they spend a high draft pick on a replacement. In addition

Which is why no one is saying any of the examples is similar in the abilities of the QBs to Rodgers.

What's the point of bringing them up then?

I agree that none of the examples I or others have sited are exactly the same, how could they be? However, the Packers themselves did it in the 2005 draft and some of the other examples I gave were done with way higher picks than what the Packers used on Love. The same situation? No, but it won't be the first time or the last time that a player is selected that was BPA and not one that fills the highest immediate need.

Of course higher picks than Love are used on quarterbacks. It absolutely makes sense when looking for a starting quarterback as a struggling franchise. It doesn't when having a HOFer coming off playing in the NFCCG though.

I haven't shut the book on the Love pick turning out well either and to keep that open, I kind of have to understand and somewhat agree with the pick.

Just to clarify once again, it's way too early to fairly evaluate Love as a player.

I understand your points… but my post above is really my biggest argument against the Love pick. I consider it a mistake because it had the potential to make Rodgers want to leave. Gute should have known this at the time… therefore in my opinion… that makes the pick a mistake. Whether Rodgers ultimately stays or goes is irrelevant.

In my opinion the Packers wasting a chance to improve the short term chances of winning the Super Bowl by using their first round on a quarterback instead of addressing a position of need was the biggest mistake.

I believe Gute was not only thinking of well into the future. When he came into the job he also realized that GB had not had a decent back up QB since the Hasselback days with possibly the exception of Matt Flynn against an average team. We never even found a decent experienced back up like a Jake McCown or a Charlie Batch. So he was looking at this a few ways. Rodgers goes down with injury and he has someone that might do something now but also in the future if Rodgers is unable to come back. I do not think it was so much a matter of putting Rodgers out to pasture or not wanting to pay him. The team has to do much better than Brett Hundley and Scott Tolzien. Those two seasons Rodgers went down were rather dismal.

I would have been fine with spending a day three pick on a potential backup quarterback. There's absolutely no reason at all to trade up in the first round to select one though.

Youd hope not but that was a pretty big lack of faith in the best qb in nfl history...now I dont think the Love pick was wasted if he proves to be a above avg backup for the remainder of his rookie deal or til hes traded

Love becoming a decent starter down the road for the Packers is the only way that pick doesn't end up being a huge mistake.

 

[Voyageur]

The situations listed aren't even close to being similar though.



As mentioned before in this thread, none of the teams in the examples listed had a clear starter at the point they spend a high draft pick on a replacement. In addition



What's the point of bringing them up then?



Of course higher picks than Love are used on quarterbacks. It absolutely makes sense when looking for a starting quarterback as a struggling franchise. It doesn't when having a HOFer coming off playing in the NFCCG though.



Just to clarify once again, it's way too early to fairly evaluate Love as a player.



In my opinion the Packers wasting a chance to improve the short term chances of winning the Super Bowl by using their first round on a quarterback instead of addressing a position of need was the biggest mistake.



I would have been fine with spending a day three pick on a potential backup quarterback. There's absolutely no reason at all to trade up in the first round to select one though.



Love becoming a decent starter down the road for the Packers is the only way that pick doesn't end up being a huge mistake.

Sifting through these pros and cons on the Love choice, the very last sentence pretty much sums it all up. Whether or not this was a good pick will be decided by Love himself, when it comes to how decent he is as the starting QB for the Green Bay Packers.

 

[swhitset]

Sifting through these pros and cons on the Love choice, the very last sentence pretty much sums it all up. Whether or not this was a good pick will be decided by Love himself, when it comes to how decent he is as the starting QB for the Green Bay Packers.

That pre supposes that he ever even gets that chance. Personally, I hope he doesn’t. I’d like to see a Rodgers extended… and that would make it unlikely that Love is ever a starter in Green Bay.

 

[tynimiller]

I still find it funny folks make the assumption that if you in any way shape or form provide context or a reasoning for why Love was picked it is a blind support of the or a declaration of "I'd have done it"

 

[Voyageur]

That pre supposes that he ever even gets that chance. Personally, I hope he doesn’t. I’d like to see a Rodgers extended… and that would make it unlikely that Love is ever a starter in Green Bay.

No it doesn't. No suppositions. If he doesn't end up the Packers starting QB, obviously the pick was a fail, because he was drafted as the guy to replace Rodgers.

 

[PackAttack12]

I still find it funny folks make the assumption that if you in any way shape or form provide context or a reasoning for why Love was picked it is a blind support of the or a declaration of "I'd have done it"

I'm definitely not that guy, but there's no question it was a massive miscalculation by Gutekunst.

With Rodgers playing MVP ball the last 2 years, Gute would be wise to extend whomever he can extend for next offseason, trade Love for whatever draft capital he can get, and keep this ship going for the next few years.

If things are done the right way, cap casualties can be limited to a minimum.

 

[milani]

I agree with you, that it was an added potential benefit, but not the primary reason Love was drafted. I am going to beat someone to it, because your conclusion is one I brought up once and I think it might have been Captain that quickly pointed out that you shouldn't use first round picks on backups.

Personally, I prefer a veteran QB to be the backup on a team that is headed to the playoffs. I still wouldn't be all that excited about Love taking over if that happens to Rodgers. Maybe in year 3 or 4 he will be more prepared and who knows, he just may still be Rodgers back up when his 4 year contract expires, that is better than selling cars.

I think the situation in Chicago is a good one to observe. They had Trubisky and they won the division a few years ago with him. They send him packing and go with Foles last year until he is hurt. Then they pick up a veteran in Dalton but draft Fields. And Fields is their starter for most of the season as a rookie coming out of a great program in Ohio State. And after all that they are back with Foles who wins the game Sunday for them. I like the idea of a veteran as well. The problem is that neither Ted Thompson nor Gute had any luck locating one unless you call Seneca Wallace a name veteran. So what choice do you have? Get a later round QB like Hundley or Tolzien? So that is how and why you get a Love. Although I thought he would still be on the board come the second round.

 

[milani]

The situations listed aren't even close to being similar though.



As mentioned before in this thread, none of the teams in the examples listed had a clear starter at the point they spend a high draft pick on a replacement. In addition



What's the point of bringing them up then?



Of course higher picks than Love are used on quarterbacks. It absolutely makes sense when looking for a starting quarterback as a struggling franchise. It doesn't when having a HOFer coming off playing in the NFCCG though.



Just to clarify once again, it's way too early to fairly evaluate Love as a player.



In my opinion the Packers wasting a chance to improve the short term chances of winning the Super Bowl by using their first round on a quarterback instead of addressing a position of need was the biggest mistake.



I would have been fine with spending a day three pick on a potential backup quarterback. There's absolutely no reason at all to trade up in the first round to select one though.



Love becoming a decent starter down the road for the Packers is the only way that pick doesn't end up being a huge mistake.

Was Gute afraid Love would have been gone by a lower round?

 

[tynimiller]

Was Gute afraid Love would have been gone by a lower round?

Majority of folks expected him to not last past the end of first or very early second.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm definitely not that guy, but there's no question it was a massive miscalculation by Gutekunst.

Almost 2 years after Love was drafted, one can say that it probably was a massive miscalculation by Gute in regards to Aaron Rodgers talent level. At the time of the pick, not so much IMO. However, that scenario hasn't fully played out yet, Rodgers wanted out last year and may continue to. Nor can anyone say for sure that Love is a bust at this point.

Hate to keep going back to the Gary pick, but many thought that was a wasted pick on a low need at the time as well as on the player. This is now Gary's 3rd season and he is making Gute look very smart and all those that didn't like Gary until this season, a bit silly too.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think the situation in Chicago is a good one to observe. They had Trubisky and they won the division a few years ago with him. They send him packing and go with Foles last year until he is hurt. Then they pick up a veteran in Dalton but draft Fields. And Fields is their starter for most of the season as a rookie coming out of a great program in Ohio State. And after all that they are back with Foles who wins the game Sunday for them. I like the idea of a veteran as well. The problem is that neither Ted Thompson nor Gute had any luck locating one unless you call Seneca Wallace a name veteran. So what choice do you have? Get a later round QB like Hundley or Tolzien? So that is how and why you get a Love. Although I thought he would still be on the board come the second round.

I wouldn't look to the Bears for how to address my QB situation.

Not sure why they thought that they had to have both Foles and Dalton to back up a rookie QB, with a team that really isn't that good to begin with. The amount of money that the Bears spent on QB's, for what they got back, was crazy.

As far as the Packers, they don't need a high paid veteran backup behind Rodgers, but I have always like the idea of a very experienced backup QB on a good team. A bad team, why spend the money, have 3 developmental guys.

 

[swhitset]

No it doesn't. No suppositions. If he doesn't end up the Packers starting QB, obviously the pick was a fail, because he was drafted as the guy to replace Rodgers.

No it doesn’t? doesn’t what?… if Rodgers is extended … factually … yes it does. Love‘s rookie contract will most likely be up by the time Rodgers is done if he is extended. That is not supposition it’s simple math. At that point the Packers will have no more rights to Love than any other free agent… making the pick a mistake.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

At that point the Packers will have no more rights to Love than any other free agent… making the pick a mistake.

If Love was a free agent after this season, I don't see a ton of interest in him and those that were interested, including the Packers, wouldn't offer him all that much. In 2 years, that could be the same, worse or maybe he has had the opportunity to prove that he has a good future in the NFL. The Packers will still have his 5th year option if that happens, with or without Rodgers as their QB.

Nobody really knows at this point how Love will fair in the NFL and we may not find out for sometime.

Side note.....I like what Rodgers said about Favre and did Rodgers both shave and cut his hair?

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Voyageur]

No it doesn’t? doesn’t what?… if Rodgers is extended … factually … yes it does. Love‘s rookie contract will most likely be up by the time Rodgers is done if he is extended. That is not supposition it’s simple math. At that point the Packers will have no more rights to Love than any other free agent… making the pick a mistake.

Ahem.... read the post I was answering. Here's the chain:

Sifting through these pros and cons on the Love choice, the very last sentence pretty much sums it all up. Whether or not this was a good pick will be decided by Love himself, when it comes to how decent he is as the starting QB for the Green Bay Packers.

Your Response:
That pre supposes that he ever even gets that chance. Personally, I hope he doesn’t. I’d like to see a Rodgers extended… and that would make it unlikely that Love is ever a starter in Green Bay.

My Response:
No it doesn't. No suppositions. If he doesn't end up the Packers starting QB, obviously the pick was a fail, because he was drafted as the guy to replace Rodgers.

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You either did not read what I said, or have a problem reading. No "supposes" on my part. But, you came back with suppositions (assuming you understand the word), about him going FA without being the Packer QB, if Rodgers is extended. End of discussion, with you. You may now continue to rave on!

 

[swhitset]

Ahem.... read the post I was answering. Here's the chain:



Your Response:
That pre supposes that he ever even gets that chance. Personally, I hope he doesn’t. I’d like to see a Rodgers extended… and that would make it unlikely that Love is ever a starter in Green Bay.

My Response:
No it doesn't. No suppositions. If he doesn't end up the Packers starting QB, obviously the pick was a fail, because he was drafted as the guy to replace Rodgers.

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​

You either did not read what I said, or have a problem reading. No "supposes" on my part. But, you came back with suppositions (assuming you understand the word), about him going FA without being the Packer QB, if Rodgers is extended. End of discussion, with you. You may now continue to rave on!

ok we are going the nasty route. The problem with reading is on you. I responded to your post and it’s last sentence “Whether or not this was a good pick will be decided by Love himself, when it comes to how decent he is as the starting QB for the Green Bay Packers.” You Then quoted ME so anything you said after that was in reference to my post. That post was about MY opinion and my preference for the Packers going forward with Rodgers instead of Love. I’m not sure what was hard to read or understand about that but it clearly isn’t my confusion.

btw… yes I do understand what the word suppose means. My response to you was a direct response to your use of the word “will” not “could” or ”might” etc.. I think you may like to look up something though…. “ad hominem”…

 

[swhitset]

If Love was a free agent after this season, I don't see a ton of interest in him and those that were interested, including the Packers, wouldn't offer him all that much. In 2 years, that could be the same, worse or maybe he has had the opportunity to prove that he has a good future in the NFL. The Packers will still have his 5th year option if that happens, with or without Rodgers as their QB.

Nobody really knows at this point how Love will fair in the NFL and we may not find out for sometime.

Side note.....I like what Rodgers said about Favre and did Rodgers both shave and cut his hair?

MSN

www.msn.com

All true… although i’d have to see a whole lot more from him before I’d even consider a 5th year option… ie I‘d want him starting before i’d pay that to a backup QB.