Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[El Guapo]

I think that there was more than was ever discussed publicly regarding McCarthy and Aaron Jones. Despite what some here think, McCarthy was a smart coach. There was something going on there because the whole world knew that Jones deserved to be on the field. It's not like McCarthy was the only guy too obtuse to figure it out.

 

[gopkrs]

I think that there was more than was ever discussed publicly regarding McCarthy and Aaron Jones. Despite what some here think, McCarthy was a smart coach. There was something going on there because the whole world knew that Jones deserved to be on the field. It's not like McCarthy was the only guy too obtuse to figure it out.

I don't think that is true. Jones was a 4th or 5th round draft pick from Texas El Paso. The whole world did not know. McCarthy put him in for a couple of plays. He didn't do that well and so that was it. I think he dropped a pass. Doghouse. haha

 

[tynimiller]

A big factor was Jamaal played better than Jones early. Just did....but Ty Montgomery also nearly got 100snaps, but I wouldn't say McCarthy put Jones in the doghouse at all. He and Jamaal each had starts that rookie year with Jones getting 4. For rookies they both did quite well and along with Ty that ********* put up 1,277 yards on the ground 11 TDs and through the air another 457 yards and 3 TDs

 

[El Guapo]

I don't think that is true. Jones was a 4th or 5th round draft pick from Texas El Paso. The whole world did not know. McCarthy put him in for a couple of plays. He didn't do that well and so that was it. I think he dropped a pass. Doghouse. haha

You're right about the doghouse. From the venerable fact-based Wikipedia:

2017 season[edit]​

After injuries to Ty Montgomery and Jamaal Williams, Jones came into the Thursday Night Football game against the Chicago Bears in Week 4. In the game, he had 13 carries for 49 yards and his first career rushing touchdown in the 35–14 victory.[32] In Week 5 against the Dallas Cowboys, Jones tallied 19 carries for 125 yards. He also had one lone target, for a 9-yard gain. In the second quarter, Jones rushed up the middle for a seven-yard touchdown, which was the second touchdown of his career. In Week 7, against the New Orleans Saints, he had 17 carries for 131 yards and a touchdown.[33] Overall, he finished his rookie season with 448 rushing yards (second on the team to fellow rookie Jamaal Williams, ninth among NFL rookies), a team-leading four rushing touchdowns, nine receptions, and 22 receiving yards.[34]

I won't paste the 2018 info because it's just too much to read, but this is the most salient part: In his first two seasons, Jones' averaged 9 touches per game[3] and a league-leading 5.5 yards per carry.

McCarthy used him sparingly for no great reason. He did not fumble in his rookie season of 2017, and only fumbled once in 2018 before his knee injury. There was concern about his health, but that never appeared to be the real reason...just an excuse given.

 

[OldSchool101]

@rodell330 Aren't you happy he is a Packer now?






Man I forgot how big of a callous to this board brandon was.....geeesh...

Brandon wanted Paris Campbell and he beat that argument into the dirt!

 

[AmishMafia]

Brandon wanted Paris Campbell and he beat that argument into the dirt!

Yeah, can you imagine if we snagged that stud instead of Rashan Gary? He has averaged 108 receptions, 1030 yds and 5 TDs per year.


No, wait. That's his total over 5 years. My bad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think too much emphasis is put on developing the draft picks. A guy like Rashan Gary needed some time. It totally depends on the player and I just don't think it is automatic that they cannot play well until developed more. And I think often times coaches and fans just automatically think that a rookie has to wait. The flip side is Aaron Jones. He was ready from day one and Big Mike did not want to give a rookie a real chance imho. Anybody that thinks he needed time to learn to catch the ball needs their head examined. That was just another excuse not to play the young guy.

I could name quite a few Packers that took time to develop and by being patient, it paid off. Davante Adams, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers to name some of the bigger ones.

Expecting draft picks to make an immediate impact there first year, is just wishful thinking and not something a team should rely on.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Brandon wanted Paris Campbell and he beat that argument into the dirt!

He was ga ga for Paris!

 

[gopkrs]

I could name quite a few Packers that took time to develop and by being patient, it paid off. Davante Adams, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers to name some of the bigger ones.

Expecting draft picks to make an immediate impact there first year, is just wishful thinking and not something a team should rely on.

What does not happen is just play the best player. Instead, the rookie has this old school or good old boys bias about needing to sit them.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think too much emphasis is put on developing the draft picks. A guy like Rashan Gary needed some time. It totally depends on the player and I just don't think it is automatic that they cannot play well until developed more. And I think often times coaches and fans just automatically think that a rookie has to wait. The flip side is Aaron Jones. He was ready from day one and Big Mike did not want to give a rookie a real chance imho. Anybody that thinks he needed time to learn to catch the ball needs their head examined. That was just another excuse not to play the young guy.

Completely and totally disagree with almost your entire post.

 

[PikeBadger]

What does not happen is just play the best player. Instead, the rookie has this old school or good old boys bias about needing to sit them.

Another borderline rant that I totally disagree with.

 

[milani]

What does not happen is just play the best player. Instead, the rookie has this old school or good old boys bias about needing to sit them.

Young or old our TEs are not very good at blocking. If there was one thing Big Dog could still do it was block. Hard to sustain a run game if you cannot block.

 

[Voyageur]

The value, of blocking, was more evident against the Lions than any team we've played this year. Our line lacked the ability to handle any kind of a hard rush, that was over 3 players. The coaching staff pretty much admitted that when they put Deguara on the field for most snaps. Since he's the only TE we have who can really block, that value to the team became evident. It also showed that when he was used effectively as that blocking back, he also proved to be a solid pass receiver. He had 4 catches, and nearly 40 yards receiving I believe.

This season is going to be what a lot of us thought it would be. We may be competitive against teams in the lower half of the league, but those in the upper tier, not so much. The Lions are in that top 8 to 10 range.

On defense, It is what it was. The Lions just plain overpowered our first unit, but as the Packers got deeper into their rotation, there was a marked difference in play. Maybe some of these younger players they brought on are going to be pretty good? Can't say for sure, but it does look promising.

Is their a ray of sunshine from the game? Yes. Love did not crack under pressure. He made a few bad throws, but that pass rush was intense, and anyone would have had problems with it. The blocking just didn't slow them down enough, to give him any time to get the ball out.

Thank Gutey for us having Doubs, out of last year's 4th round. The guy gets better every time you see him out there. Then there's the other young receivers, who showed they aren't afraid to battle for the ball on those 50/50s. There's a future in them.

 

[milani]

The value, of blocking, was more evident against the Lions than any team we've played this year. Our line lacked the ability to handle any kind of a hard rush, that was over 3 players. The coaching staff pretty much admitted that when they put Deguara on the field for most snaps. Since he's the only TE we have who can really block, that value to the team became evident. It also showed that when he was used effectively as that blocking back, he also proved to be a solid pass receiver. He had 4 catches, and nearly 40 yards receiving I believe.

This season is going to be what a lot of us thought it would be. We may be competitive against teams in the lower half of the league, but those in the upper tier, not so much. The Lions are in that top 8 to 10 range.

On defense, It is what it was. The Lions just plain overpowered our first unit, but as the Packers got deeper into their rotation, there was a marked difference in play. Maybe some of these younger players they brought on are going to be pretty good? Can't say for sure, but it does look promising.

Is their a ray of sunshine from the game? Yes. Love did not crack under pressure. He made a few bad throws, but that pass rush was intense, and anyone would have had problems with it. The blocking just didn't slow them down enough, to give him any time to get the ball out.

Thank Gutey for us having Doubs, out of last year's 4th round. The guy gets better every time you see him out there. Then there's the other young receivers, who showed they aren't afraid to battle for the ball on those 50/50s. There's a future in them.

Unfortunately, before the season we felt that our strongest position on the team was the offensive line. Now it appears to be quite the opposite. We have put a lot into our defensive line but they just cannot stop the run and have not now for well over a decade. 200 plus yards in 2 of 4 games. That is Capers territory. Maybe after this season we shelve the 3-4 and build a 4-3 again. What have we got to lose? And we think we were good against the Saints. What if Kamara was playing?

 

[Schultz]

The value, of blocking, was more evident against the Lions than any team we've played this year. Our line lacked the ability to handle any kind of a hard rush, that was over 3 players. The coaching staff pretty much admitted that when they put Deguara on the field for most snaps. Since he's the only TE we have who can really block, that value to the team became evident. It also showed that when he was used effectively as that blocking back, he also proved to be a solid pass receiver. He had 4 catches, and nearly 40 yards receiving I believe.

This season is going to be what a lot of us thought it would be. We may be competitive against teams in the lower half of the league, but those in the upper tier, not so much. The Lions are in that top 8 to 10 range.

On defense, It is what it was. The Lions just plain overpowered our first unit, but as the Packers got deeper into their rotation, there was a marked difference in play. Maybe some of these younger players they brought on are going to be pretty good? Can't say for sure, but it does look promising.

Is their a ray of sunshine from the game? Yes. Love did not crack under pressure. He made a few bad throws, but that pass rush was intense, and anyone would have had problems with it. The blocking just didn't slow them down enough, to give him any time to get the ball out.

Thank Gutey for us having Doubs, out of last year's 4th round. The guy gets better every time you see him out there. Then there's the other young receivers, who showed they aren't afraid to battle for the ball on those 50/50s. There's a future in them.

IMO Deguara's use had a lot to do with Musgrave being out.

 

[Voyageur]

IMO Deguara's use had a lot to do with Musgrave being out.

You're probably right, but they began using his blocking skills during the second half, to help keep defenders off Love, and that helped change the direction the offense was going.

He also showed he had decent hands. As far as Musgrave is concerned, he's going to have to learn how to block better. Hopefully, it will come. Same with Kraft.

 

[gopkrs]

Deguara does have good hands. And that was not an easy catch by Kraft. For a loss though. I hope those two get more chances at receptions. Really, if you want another blocker; just put in an O lineman. It's not like your tricking anybody.

 

[Pugger]

Young or old our TEs are not very good at blocking. If there was one thing Big Dog could still do it was block. Hard to sustain a run game if you cannot block.

Are TEs taught blocking in high school or college these days? It seems to me that most TEs today are pass catchers first.

 

[tynimiller]

Are TEs taught blocking in high school or college these days? It seems to me that most TEs today are pass catchers first.

So Musgrave actually blocked a lot in college as their offense centers around the run.

Musgrave’s blocking ability only struggles with technique and strength. He actually knows the calls and where he needs to be, it is refining the technique and just building his strength to block guys far bigger and faster than he dealt with in collegee

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This season is going to be what a lot of us thought it would be. We may be competitive against teams in the lower half of the league, but those in the upper tier, not so much. The Lions are in that top 8 to 10 range.

Spot on.

This is a very young team, with a very inexperienced QB. While it was nice to see them come out of the gate and beat the Bears on the road, the next 3 games have been filled with youthful mistakes and miscues.

I still think they have a lot of talent on this team, its just going to be about getting them all play at a higher level, address some of the gaps in the offseason and for gods sake, get rid of Joe Barry.

 

[Voyageur]

Spot on.

This is a very young team, with a very inexperienced QB. While it was nice to see them come out of the gate and beat the Bears on the road, the next 3 games have been filled with youthful mistakes and miscues.

I still think they have a lot of talent on this team, its just going to be about getting them all play at a higher level, address some of the gaps in the offseason and for gods sake, get rid of Joe Barry.

You covered it. Young, need coaching, and talented. Now, bringing it all together, and finding out which players will rise above their peers, and make a name for themselves is the question.

I've always believed that any player who makes it onto a roster, or practice squad, is talented. There are also a heck of a lot of players who don't make it that far that have huge talent. It's just that it hasn't been cultivated properly, to help them reach that new level. That's why the occasional player will go from XFL, or the Canadian Football League, etc., to making a roster, and in some cases, become a pretty darned good NFL player.

Example? I'll give a couple. Warren Moon. Played for Edmonton in the CFL, and at 28 had his coming out party in the NFL. Stuck around until he was well into his 40s. Joe Kapp. Played for Calgary and British Columbia in Canada, and went on to a stellar NFL career. He walked away, over money, and never looked back. Joe died not that long ago. He was a special guy. The first Chicano to make a name for himself when he went to the NFL. He was the Vikings QB who got them to Super Bowl IV. Sadly, for Joe, they didn't win the game.

Now, how are they going to develop that talent to make it form a winning combination?

 

[gopkrs]

Voyageur, so you don't think Moon would have been a good Qb if he hadn't gone to Canada? I agree he might not have made it in the NFL. But that would have been because the coaches were blind or prejudiced. imo

 

[Pugger]

So Musgrave actually blocked a lot in college as their offense centers around the run.

Musgrave’s blocking ability only struggles with technique and strength. He actually knows the calls and where he needs to be, it is refining the technique and just building his strength to block guys far bigger and faster than he dealt with in collegee

I'm glad to hear it. I didn't know much about him when we drafted him. I don't follow college football all that closely. I enjoy the games and all but I don't pay attention to individual players.

 

[Voyageur]

Voyageur, so you don't think Moon would have been a good Qb if he hadn't gone to Canada? I agree he might not have made it in the NFL. But that would have been because the coaches were blind or prejudiced. imo

No doubt Moon had the talent to be an NFL QB. Like most players, he would have had to learn the nuances of the game, but would have proven he had what it takes. If given a chance. There was a problem there. Like you said, prejudice. It was "common belief," among the idiots who seemed to know the game better than most, that black players weren't smart enough to play QB.

Had Warren opted to play in the NFL, they would have almost certainly have changed his position, because they weren't smart enough to realize how stupid their prejudices were.

His record, in 8 years in Canada, showed the NFL exactly what he was bringing to the table.

Joe Kapp was drafted by Washington in the late 50s. It was a late round pick. Their front office never bothered to contact Joe, making him wonder why they bothered drafting him. Since he had no other option, he chose to sign to play in the CFL. The rest is history. He proved, to Washington, that they made a mistake by not picking up that phone.

But it is true that it was very possible that Warren Moon would have never played a down in the NFL, because of the prejudices of that era, as they would have changed his position. It's hard to know for sure.

 

[gopkrs]

To be honest I think there is a lot of shortsightedness and just doing things the way they have always been done in not playing many of the rookies now.