Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[Heyjoe4]

Much like it's been important for Love to learn the game behind the Rodgers? Or should Gute be fired for drafting Gary, just to backup better players?

One difference is that Gary was given a chance to play his first two years. Love wasn't, except for the KC game last year. That's hardly a good sample.

 

[longtimefan]

Yeah it was important for him to learn the game behind the Smiths. And I think he goes into double digit sacks this year as well.

He was drafted as a project. I believe the packers coaches said that

much like Love?

 

[Heyjoe4]

He was drafted as a project. I believe the packers coaches said that

much like Love?

That's true for Gary.

As for Love, or any first round QB, it probably depends on the player. This year's draft was considered weak and most of those guys will probably fall under the "project" category.

I can't know what Gluten thought when he drafted Love, but it seemed like he thought Love would be starting in a year or two. Is Love a project? I don't know. I admit it's not fair to evaluate a guy on one start. Rodgers could quit after this year. In that case I'm sure they want Love to start. So if he was a project, it lasted one game.

What do you think longtime?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's true for Gary.

As for Love, or any first round QB, it probably depends on the player. This year's draft was considered weak and most of those guys will probably fall under the "project" category.

I can't know what Gluten thought when he drafted Love, but it seemed like he thought Love would be starting in a year or two. Is Love a project? I don't know. I admit it's not fair to evaluate a guy on one start. Rodgers could quit after this year. In that case I'm sure they want Love to start. So if he was a project, it lasted one game.

What do you think longtime?

Just like most draft picks, guys are chosen based on a lot of criteria and future need is probably relatively high on that list. When Gary was selected, Gute had just signed 2 high profile free agent OLB's, the "Smith Brothers". Some, including myself, were shocked at the 12th pick in the draft, being used on a position that was already in good shape. As it turns out, Gute knew exactly what he was doing. Gary developed into quite a nice player and Gute was able to cut ties with Z Dog.

I believe he saw the same situation with the Love pick. A QB that the Packers really liked, falls to a spot in the first round, that they could afford to get to. Was he needed right away? Not at all, but I'm sure that Gute felt he would be ready in 2-4 years and if he developed into a starter, Rodgers would become expendable. I really think had Love been blowing the doors off of the practice field and looked like a really good QB, Rodgers would have been traded during this past year of his indecisiveness. Covid and limited practices and no preseason definitely didn't help Love. While it is appearing that the insurance policy Gute drafted may never be cashed in, the rationale for "purchasing" it doesn't get changed to a "he should have known."

 

[Heyjoe4]

Just like most draft picks, guys are chosen based on a lot of criteria and future need is probably relatively high on that list. When Gary was selected, Gute had just signed 2 high profile free agent OLB's, the "Smith Brothers". Some, including myself, were shocked at the 12th pick in the draft, being used on a position that was already in good shape. As it turns out, Gute knew exactly what he was doing. Gary developed into quite a nice player and Gute was able to cut ties with Z Dog.

I believe he saw the same situation with the Love pick. A QB that the Packers really liked, falls to a spot in the first round, that they could afford to get to. Was he needed right away? Not at all, but I'm sure that Gute felt he would be ready in 2-4 years and if he developed into a starter, Rodgers would become expendable. I really think had Love been blowing the doors off of the practice field and looked like a really good QB, Rodgers would have been traded during this past year of his indecisiveness. Covid and limited practices and no preseason definitely didn't help Love. While it is appearing that the insurance policy Gute drafted may never be cashed in, the rationale for "purchasing" it doesn't get changed to a "he should have known."

All true. And if Love will wait 4 years, maybe sooner if Rodgers leaves, Love will get his chance as a first round pick, and now, a guy who at least knows the playbook.

Rodgers did not project as HOF material his first year or two either. Hey, we all want the winning to continue!

 

[tynimiller]

Guys discuss love elsewhere

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Guys discuss love elsewhere

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[longtimefan]

Guys discuss love elsewhere

No

we can be Willy Nilly in any thread we want

 

[longtimefan]

All true. And if Love will wait 4 years, maybe sooner if Rodgers leaves, Love will get his chance as a first round pick, and now, a guy who at least knows the playbook.

Rodgers did not project as HOF material his first year or two either. Hey, we all want the winning to continue!

Is this off topic?

( inside joke between joe and I)

 

[Voyageur]

In many cases, the best pass rusher doesn't get the sacks. He gets double teamed, and someone else gets free because of it, and gets that sack.

To get huge numbers, you need at least 3 guys who can generate the heat.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Guys discuss love elsewhere

Welcome to the moderating team

 

[tynimiller]

Welcome to the moderating team

It just gets old the freaking Love sage or wide receiver room wiggles into every thread...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It just gets old the freaking Love sage or wide receiver room wiggles into every thread...

Fire Capers!

 

[Sanguine camper]

Pass rushing stats are full if pseudo success. Just what good are "hits" and "hurries" if you came too late and the qb scrambled for a first down or completed a pass. I would much rather have forced interceptions similar to a forced fumble and forced incompletion rather than a "hurry" , similar to what db's have for passes defensed. Sacks sre still the gold standard but I would measure sacks as yardage lost. A one yard sack shouldn't matter as much as a 10 yard sack. The latter will usually stop a drive. Without meaningful stats, its extremely difficult to compare and evaluate pass rushers.

 

[PikeBadger]

Fire Capers!

Re-sign Jeff Janis!

 

[PikeBadger]

Back to the OP, Gary has been a terrific disruptor. The things I'm still looking for is consistent finishing and separation of QB and football. I'm not sure he has those TJ Watt aspects to his game or not. I haven't seen that from him consistently yet. That's what separates him from greatness imo.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A one yard sack shouldn't matter as much as a 10 yard sack. The latter will usually stop a drive. Without meaningful stats, its extremely difficult to compare and evaluate pass rushers.

Not if the ball was stripped and recovered during the 1 yard sack.

I say that to be funny and make a point, that agrees with what you are saying. IF all people do is look at a few stats to evaluate a player, they most likely they are not seeing the entire picture of what that player does or doesn't do. That pretty much goes for every position in football.

 

[tynimiller]

Not if the ball was stripped and recovered during the 1 yard sack.

I say that to be funny and make a point, that agrees with what you are saying. IF all people do is look at a few stats to evaluate a player, they most likely they are not seeing the entire picture of what that player does or doesn't do. That pretty much goes for every position in football.

Correct, which is why only looking at a sack total is misleading as well to the impact and level of play a player is contributing to his team...gotta look at multiple aspects of a player to properly judge or gather value opinion for them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Correct, which is why only looking at a sack total is misleading as well to the impact and level of play a player is contributing to his team...gotta look at multiple aspects of a player to properly judge or gather value opinion for them.

Yup and that is why they pay the scouts the big money. The player that most recently sticks out for me was Josh Jackson at Iowa. So many were enamored by his 8 interceptions, 2 of them returned for TD's. Many thought he had earned himself a potential first round grade. A few scouts noticed that he really wasn't very good man to man. I will admit that I thought he was a steal for the Packers in the second round at #45. Turns out, the guy was completely overrated and appears to already be out of the league. Then there are the guys who have a huge sack total in their contract year and someone pays them big bucks as a result. Usually, to find out that all those sacks really didn't define the player very well.

Obviously, there are other factors, such as injuries, coaching and the dreaded "I got paid big, I'm set, I can coast now". I think that was one of the reasons TT stayed away from big Free agent signings as much as he did. He didn't want to over invest in a player that other teams were offering way too much money to.

 

[Mondio]

Stats don't tell the story. They can be used to confirm what your eyes see, but beyond that and making fantasy football fans/gamblers think they know the game of football not many conclusions can be draw on stats alone.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Is this off topic?

( inside joke between joe and I)

Well this inside joke I find kinda funny (but not tasteless) longtime!

 

[tynimiller]

Not solely focusing on stats is why many feel Lazard is a much better WR than most consider him. Which is no doubt why we presently have an odd tendering stand off with him.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Pass rushing stats are full if pseudo success. Just what good are "hits" and "hurries" if you came too late and the qb scrambled for a first down or completed a pass. I would much rather have forced interceptions similar to a forced fumble and forced incompletion rather than a "hurry" , similar to what db's have for passes defensed. Sacks sre still the gold standard but I would measure sacks as yardage lost. A one yard sack shouldn't matter as much as a 10 yard sack. The latter will usually stop a drive. Without meaningful stats, its extremely difficult to compare and evaluate pass rushers.

Those are all good points. It still irritates me when a pass gets tipped and falls in the hand of a CB who was in no position to make an INT. I guess that's called luck (good or bad depending on your POV). It happens in all sports. Hopefully over time the law of large numbers takes over and the stats have meaning.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Pass rushing stats are full if pseudo success. Just what good are "hits" and "hurries" if you came too late and the qb scrambled for a first down or completed a pass. I would much rather have forced interceptions similar to a forced fumble and forced incompletion rather than a "hurry" , similar to what db's have for passes defensed. Sacks sre still the gold standard but I would measure sacks as yardage lost. A one yard sack shouldn't matter as much as a 10 yard sack. The latter will usually stop a drive. Without meaningful stats, its extremely difficult to compare and evaluate pass rushers.

It's really simple. Hurrying a quarterback leads to worse quarterback play and, therefore, worse passing. Obviously a sack is terrific, but rushing the QB into making a bad throw is still really good for the defense. Measuring sacks by yardage is nice but generally that means you're taking credit for poor QB play; good QBs generally don't run 10 yards backwards.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not solely focusing on stats is why many feel Lazard is a much better WR than most consider him. Which is no doubt why we presently have an odd tendering stand off with him.

I go back and forth on my Lazard Love. I loved when we signed him off the Jaguars PS. I love a lot of the things that he does, especially his blocking. Where I waiver is just how much value does he have? Definitely a legit #3 guy. Potentially a #2, if he keeps progressing. Then you have the whole "what would he be without Rodgers?" question. Given our current WR situation, I would be fine with seeing him locked down on a 3 year incentive laced deal, but as you implied, he needs to also get paid for some of his intangibles and the most important one, blocking.