OLB Situation / Interesting Waiver wire prospects

[XPack]

Cobb for Coleman.... I could have sworn I had too much to drink and was hallucinating when I read that. Apparently not!

 

[HardRightEdge]

Why do so many fans believe this to be the case with players? I'm not saying that it doesn't happen occasionally, but to assume every Packer player is going to "give a home town discount" to stay with the Packers is just setting yourself up for not liking the player, because he did what most players do and you probably would too, get whatever you can.

Over the next 5 years, Rodgers' cap and cash averages $30.1 mil. The 6th. year is for $25.5 mil at which point the signing bonus proration will have rolled off with zero dead cap. That 6th. year is just a place holder, the outcome TBD. Rodgers cap number gradually increases each year and tops out $37 mil in year 5.

Matt Ryan is at $28.3 mil over the next 5 years with a similar place holder in year 6 with a $30 mil cap number in that year and only $2 mil in dead cap. His cap number tops out at $35 mil in year 5.

Kirk Cousins is at $28 mil over the next 3 years, fully guaranteed, with $30 mil in dead cap in year 3. He gets paid that full boat even if he sh*ts the bed.

Garoppolo is is at $27.5 mil over the next 5 years but with a $4.2 mil dead cap in year 3 providing an out if he's a flash in the pan. If he pans out, he could be renegotiating a bump with more guarantees in year 3 and pass Rodgers.

What a Wentz or some of the other up-and-comers might get when the time comes in the next few years is anybody's guess.

So, when considering Rodgers is $2 mil over Ryan for the next 5 years, there is no player option in Rodgers contract as had been rumored, there is no guarantee he ill be the highest paid player throughout this contact as had been rumored, and the 5 year average is a couple mil lower than I would have expected, and the cap numbers for 2018 and 2019 are relatively low (through the duration of McCarthy's current contact, coincidentally), it does look like something of a discount.

In other words, it was no ground breaking contract, just a modest bump over the prevailing Ryan benchmark, a screaming deal compared to those other 2 guys, and perhaps an even more screaming deal in the next couple of years with next newly crowned franchise QB second contracts.

 

[azrsx05]

so uhhhh.... is this really the edge rush group we're going into the season with? yeahhhhh, about that...

I wonder who we frantically pick up tomorrow when Clay pulls his hammy tonight or Perry hurts his hand.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Over the next 5 years, Rodgers' cap and cash averages $30.1 mil. The 6th. year is for $25.5 mil at which point the signing bonus proration will have rolled off with zero dead cap. That 6th. year is just a place holder, the outcome TBD. Rodgers cap number gradually increases each year and tops out $37 mil in year 5.

Matt Ryan is at $28.3 mil over the next 5 years with a similar place holder in year 6 with a $30 mil cap number in that year and only $2 mil in dead cap. His cap number tops out at $35 mil in year 5.

Kirk Cousins is at $28 mil over the next 3 years, fully guaranteed, with $30 mil in dead cap in year 3. He gets paid that full boat even if he sh*ts the bed.

Garoppolo is is at $27.5 mil over the next 5 years but with a $4.2 mil dead cap in year 3 providing an out if he's a flash in the pan. If he pans out, he could be renegotiating a bump with more guarantees in year 3 and pass Rodgers.

What a Wentz or some of the other up-and-comers might get when the time comes in the next few years is anybody's guess.

So, when considering Rodgers is $2 mil over Ryan for the next 5 years, there is no player option in Rodgers contract as had been rumored, there is no guarantee he ill be the highest paid player throughout this contact as had been rumored, and the 5 year average is a couple mil lower than I would have expected, and the cap numbers for 2018 and 2019 are relatively low (through the duration of McCarthy's current contact, coincidentally), it does look like something of a discount.

In other words, it was no ground breaking contract, just a modest bump over the prevailing Ryan benchmark, a screaming deal compared to those other 2 guys, and perhaps an even more screaming deal in the next couple of years with next newly crowned franchise QB second contracts.

So are you saying that despite the Packers not trading for Mack, Rodgers gave the Packers a "home town discount"?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Cobb for Coleman.... I could have sworn I had too much to drink and was hallucinating when I read that. Apparently not!

That deal can still be "made", just means we trade with the Waiver Wires. I still shake my head at those who want to purge Cobb, sure he may be overpaid, but our WR group is already thin in experience as it is and that is when everyone is healthy.

Personally, I don't understand the fascination with Coleman, besides being a first round failure with Cleveland, he hasn't done a thing. Now maybe he has some untapped potential and would be a guy you take a flyer on at a cheap salary, but not someone I feel would adequately replace Cobb.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Personally, I don't understand the fascination with Coleman, besides being a first round failure with Cleveland, he hasn't done a thing. Now maybe he has some untapped potential and would be a guy you take a flyer on at a cheap salary, but not someone I feel would adequately replace Cobb.

Once again, I don't think Coleman is a viable option as the Bills took $3.5 million of dead money counting against their cap without him having ever played a single snap for them.

 

[sschind]

If GB had done this a month ago, that would've freed up cash to make a strong play for Khalil Mack. Aaron Rodgers would've taken a financial haircut for that opportunity. Now you got Khalil Mack the Bear on a divisional rival, and GB's O-Line has absolutely no answers for him.

I don't think it was the cash that prevented a strong play for Mack. It was the picks that would have been needed to get him in the first place. Rodgers had to know Mack was being considered. If he was willing to take a financial haircut why didn't he. The Mack trade didn't go down until after Rodgers had signed so if Rodgers really wanted him here he could have told Gute "look, I'll knock several million off my asking price if you get Mack" Of course Gute would have had to say no because he probably already knew he wasn't going to cough up both first rounders and then some so he couldn't in good conscience take Rodgers offer then not follow through on getting Mack.

 

[HardRightEdge]

So are you saying that despite the Packers not trading for Mack, Rodgers gave the Packers a "home town discount"?

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Seriously.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Seriously.

People were saying that if the Packers were serious about trading for Mack, Rodgers might take a "home town discount" to sign Mack. The Packers didn't sign Mack, but the way you laid out Rodgers contract, you made it sound like a favorable deal for the Packers. After tonight, most would agree that Rodgers so far has earned his new paycheck and then some.

 

[HardRightEdge]

People were saying that if the Packers were serious about trading for Mack, Rodgers might take a "home town discount" to sign Mack. The Packers didn't sign Mack, but the way you laid out Rodgers contract, you made it sound like a favorable deal for the Packers. After tonight, most would agree that Rodgers so far has earned his new paycheck and then some.

Oh. People do say things, don't they? I didn't follow much of the Mack Mania.

By the way, I didn't "make it sound like" a favorable deal. It is a favorable deal, as it was before tonight's second half.

 

[Dantés]

Rodgers wanted a deal that would allow him to come back to the negotiating table regularly and/or would be based on % of the cap and not a yearly average number. So from his perspective, he probably feels like he did negotiate and give some ground to the Packers.

Fans think players should give their favorite team discounts because they're fans and imagine that players look at this game like fans. They're professionals and this is their business. Some elements of what it was like for you to sacrifice for the good of the team in high school might remain, but it isn't close to being exactly the same.

 

[sschind]

Of the close to 2000 players who wind up on 53 man rosters I wonder how many wind up on the rosters of the team they were huge fans of growing up. If you or I had the talent to play the game and ended up playing for the Packers we may consider it sacrilegious to demand more money for three reasons. The first one is easy, its the Green Bay Packers we would die to play for them. Two, we don't have that talent and will never play for the Packers so it is very easy to say that. Its easy to say what we would do if there isn't a chance in hell that we will have to man up and do it. And three we are talking about more money than most of us can can even hope to make so again its easy to say we would play for much less when even the much less is far more than we could ever hope to make.

Not a one of us knows how we would react in the same situation that many of these players find themselves in. I am sure that at some levels there are players who turn down more money to play for a certain team or to stay with a certain team. In some cases it may be out of loyalty "these guys gave me a chance when no one else would" or "they drafted me and stuck by me when they could have moved on so I'll reward them." A player like Josh Gordon or Kevin White COULD have those feelings, but lets be honest part of the reason teams stick with certain players through suspensions and injuries is because they are really really talented AND they are relatively cheap in the first place. At the lower levels of the 53 man roster where league minimums are standard players don't usually have that option but there are other ways to reward a team with a discount. I do not begrudge any player for going out and getting what they think they are worth but at the same time when I do hear of players taking less money to stay with a particular team it make me respect them a little bit more.

Its like when my nephew asked his mom when he was 5 (keep in mind my brother in law is a huge Bears fan and hates the vikings) " Mom, do you think dad will come and watch me if I ever played for the vikings" my sister reapplied " Honey, if you ever played for the vikings your dad would paint the house purple"

 

[elcid]

John Simon is still out there. After playing the Bears I still feel like we need EDGE help in a big way. Are the Packers still going to acquire anyone? Personally I really don't understand why they haven't brought him in for a visit yet. Just like Eric Reid. Just speculating here, but I'd reckon you could add both these players and take no more than a 5-6M dent to this year's available cap. The Defense started playing better at the end of the game but solidifying some positional groups cost-effective wise never seems like a bad thing to do.

 

[Mondio]

John Simon is still out there. After playing the Bears I still feel like we need EDGE help in a big way. Are the Packers still going to acquire anyone? Personally I really don't understand why they haven't brought him in for a visit yet. Just like Eric Reid. Just speculating here, but I'd reckon you could add both these players and take no more than a 5-6M dent to this year's available cap. The Defense started playing better at the end of the game but solidifying some positional groups cost-effective wise never seems like a bad thing to do.

who knows why they haven't. Seems like a decent enough player that didn't fit the scheme and was released. But he'd fit our's. And it's not as if the Packers aren't aware of Colts players, we already signed one of their scheme change casualties. But he hasn't played a full season in a while, and we already have some guys like that. And outside of the Jets, i'm not aware of any other visits so there doesn't seem to be a ton of interest out there. Of course that's just what the media reports, with week 1 over and #2 on the way there are all sorts of other stories to follow that are more interesting at this point. so who knows how many teams have contacted him. I can't claim to have watched much of the Colts, but just casual reading doesn't make him sound like anything we don't already have on the team. He'd be a guy, but i'm not sure he's any more than Kyler Fackrell at this point. From a numbers standpoint, having more than 4 seems like a good idea that's for sure.

But maybe we really are seeing a shift from a past and OLB's are going to be less of an emphasis with this defense. If DL and Inside and DB's are going to be on the field a lot and they can keep a decent rotation with the 4 they have, I'm fine with resources going to other places. It's different if a premier rusher is available, but Simon doesn't not fit that bill. His best quality at this point to me, he's available. That's like making your selection at bar time, seems like a good idea at the time but you're always thankful when it was over. If we signed the guy he's just a place holder I think.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Simon would be similar to the Ahmad Brooks signing last year, albeit a younger player, Brooks was 33 and Simon is 27. I wouldn't expect Simon to fix the position by any means, but he would probably give decent rotational snaps as well be able to start if need be. Unless the Packers saw a big jump in Fackrell, I think Simon is definite upgrade over him.

But as Mondio and others pointed out, maybe he just doesn't fit what the Packers want to do with the position moving forward or maybe Simon just isn't interested in playing in Green Bay or maybe Simon just wants more money than he is worth to the Packers.

Will be interesting to see how the position plays out in the next several weeks, but as we have seen in the past, a few injuries at an already thin position in both numbers and talent, can send a team scrambling to the streets for guys.

 

[Mondio]

I liked the Brooks the signing, I think he was a better player by a good margin even with the age difference.

 

[McKnowledge]

Why do so many fans believe this to be the case with players? I'm not saying that it doesn't happen occasionally, but to assume every Packer player is going to "give a home town discount" to stay with the Packers is just setting yourself up for not liking the player, because he did what most players do and you probably would too, get whatever you can.

Absolutely, I would take as much as I can. However, with a transcendent talent like Mack, I'd like to think Aaron Rodgers would've took less if the Packers in fact were close to making a deal happen. Mack would've made Green Bay absolute title contenders. Its not about a "hometown dicount", but the ability to maximize your chances of winning another Super Bowl. Quarterbacks and pass rushers are the great equalizers.

 

[McKnowledge]

I don't think it was the cash that prevented a strong play for Mack. It was the picks that would have been needed to get him in the first place. Rodgers had to know Mack was being considered. If he was willing to take a financial haircut why didn't he. The Mack trade didn't go down until after Rodgers had signed so if Rodgers really wanted him here he could have told Gute "look, I'll knock several million off my asking price if you get Mack" Of course Gute would have had to say no because he probably already knew he wasn't going to cough up both first rounders and then some so he couldn't in good conscience take Rodgers offer then not follow through on getting Mack.

The Packers consistently make the mistake of not consulting Rodgers on personnel moves. AR12 has earned the right to have input, or at least, a heads up. True, the Mack deal came later...a few days later. If Gute approached Rodgers, with a proposition of taking slightly less guaranteed money, I sincerely think Rodgers would've strongly considered that. PLus let's not forget the Raiders also gave Chicago a second round pick as well. Gute could've negotiated a similar deal, securing a transcendent talent and a high second round draft pick for next season (Raiders will be garbage this year).

 

[McKnowledge]

It would be a terrible mistake to underestimate the importance of edge rushers on a defense. The Packers need at least one of their backup outside linebackers to step up and have an impact this season.



You already advocated for the Packers to trade a first round for Ray several months ago. It was a terrible idea at that point and still is.

The Packers shouldn't use their two first round picke next year to trade down to accumulate even more picks but possibly use both of them to move into the top 10 to select an immediate impact player.

The Bills released Coleman although it cost them $3.5 million of dead money counting against their cap without him playing a single snap for the team. It would be another terrible move to sign him to replace Cobb.

Notice, I revised my most recent advocation for Ray with a second or third round draft pick. Dismiss my statement several months ago...I know I did.

 

[Mondio]

and you consistently make the mistake in thinking that players run teams and front office guys get to where they are by letting other unqualified people make decisions for them. Rodgers wasn't going to take less than he did and the Packers couldn't really have paid him more and have a shot at keeping a competitive team around him.

Gute could have done all sorts of things. Doesn't mean they would have worked or been smart things to do. We're 1 and 0 and moving on.

 

[McKnowledge]

Wright is absolutely horrible in coverage. Crawford was kept because they feel he will be a ST demon.

I personally don’t think Ray is any good— just another John Elway swing and miss.

The Bills already cut Corey Coleman. Apparently he wasn’t good enough to make the worst receiver corps in football. Not exactly a legit #2.

The Packers have two answers for Mack. Their names are David and Bryan. They comprise the best OT duo in football. It’s weird how some Packer fans seem to have forgotten this.

Wright is a young player with talent. He can be coached.

Who cares about a "ST demon"...lol. Is he getting snaps on downs?

Coleman just signed with the Patriots. Somebody likes him.

There are no answers for Mack.

 

[Mondio]

Wright is a young player with talent. He can be coached.

Who cares about a "ST demon"...lol. Is he getting snaps on downs?

Coleman just signed with the Patriots. Somebody likes him.

There are no answers for Mack.

we won a super bowl thanks to a special teams demon. They're important, don't undervalue them . and the patriots signed Lawerence guy from us, Bennett after he quit on us, RJF, Kyrie Thorton and Jerel WOrthy, how did those work out?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Absolutely, I would take as much as I can. However, with a transcendent talent like Mack, I'd like to think Aaron Rodgers would've took less if the Packers in fact were close to making a deal happen. Mack would've made Green Bay absolute title contenders. Its not about a "hometown dicount", but the ability to maximize your chances of winning another Super Bowl. Quarterbacks and pass rushers are the great equalizers.

Well if we think that way, why wouldn't Mack take a "Home Town Discount" to play with Aaron Rodgers and a team much closer to the Super Bowl than the Bears? Why shouldn't ALL the Packer players chip in a share to bring a talent like Mack to the Packers? While it is a nice warm fuzzy thought to think that even a guy like AR would say "you know what, keep a few million a year to make this team better, I'm good", but the reality is, most players are probably looking out for themselves, the same that you or I would.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I liked the Brooks the signing, I think he was a better player by a good margin even with the age difference.

I loved the Brooks signing and while injuries and age slowed him up a bit, he was a reliable second level guy, even when pressed into starting 5 games. I think the most attractive thing about Simon to me is his age and the fact that he was a pretty solid guy in Indy when they were running the 3-4. His talent may not be peaked yet and he just might be that guy that wants to show that his career is far from over at the age of 27.

 

[McKnowledge]

Well if we think that way, why wouldn't Mack take a "Home Town Discount" to play with Aaron Rodgers and a team much closer to the Super Bowl than the Bears? Why shouldn't ALL the Packer players chip in a share to bring a talent like Mack to the Packers? While it is a nice warm fuzzy thought to think that even a guy like AR would say "you know what, keep a few million a year to make this team better, I'm good", but the reality is, most players are probably looking out for themselves, the same that you or I would.

There is no I in team. You're not a team player. SMH.