Official week 7 game thread: at the Washington commodes

[gopkrs]

I guess there are times when stats are not worth much. If you cannot see that our D has not been playing well and given up way too many 3rd down plays; then you might as well not watch the game and just read stat sheets.

 

[PikeBadger]

The Packers defense ranks first in the league in three-and-outs forced at 33.8% of the drives. If they don't get off the field after three plays they rank only 18th in the league in forcing a punt afterwards though.





I really don't know if there's any way for you to understand it. The Packers defense isn't on the field for many plays compared to other teams. Maybe taking a look at the table below will help you out.

Here's the ranking of defenses in the league based on plays on the field per game this season:

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What's the breakdown for the Packers by 1st and 2nd half of games? What is our 3rd down success rate on defense for the season?

 

[milani]

The Packers defense ranks first in the league in three-and-outs forced at 33.8% of the drives. If they don't get off the field after three plays they rank only 18th in the league in forcing a punt afterwards though.





I really don't know if there's any way for you to understand it. The Packers defense isn't on the field for many plays compared to other teams. Maybe taking a look at the table below will help you out.

Here's the ranking of defenses in the league based on plays on the field per game this season:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Again throw out the Bears game. And both the number of plays and TOP change incrementally. Middle of the pack. And thus you have a 3-4 team. I will grant you this. A team that plays on a shorter field or gives up big plays will allow the opponent to score quickly while being on the field less and still lose the game. What we are seeing is a team giving up long time consuming drives. And if that defense must return to the field 4 or 5 plays later it takes its toll when it happens continually. Maybe Sunday night Buffalo will score quickly and our D will not be so exhausted in the second half.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What's the breakdown for the Packers by 1st and 2nd half of games? What is our 3rd down success rate on defense for the season?

The Packers have forced a three-and-out on 44.7% of the drives in the first half but only on 21.2% in the second.

If you're talking about snaps played for the defense they have been on the field for the third less in the first half at 27.86 as well as tied for sixth in the second at 29.29.

Again throw out the Bears game. And both the number of plays and TOP change incrementally. Middle of the pack. And thus you have a 3-4 team.

I should be done explaining it to you as it's pretty obvious you don't understand it but I just can't help myself.

Even if I take out the Bears game the Packers defense still has been on the field for the fifth fewest snaps per game.

There's no reason to ignore that game though. And even if there was you would have to eliminate the game with the fewest snaps for all teams.

I will grant you this. A team that plays on a shorter field or gives up big plays will allow the opponent to score quickly while being on the field less and still lose the game.

On average the Packers gets on the field with the fourth best field position of all teams around the league.

What we are seeing is a team giving up long time consuming drives.

The defense is the unit to blame for giving up long drives though.

 

[Schultz]

As far as this offense/defense blame game. IMO the defense is actually playing farther below my expectations than the offense is, and the offense sucks. IMO.

 

[OldSchool101]

The Packers defense ranks first in the league in three-and-outs forced at 33.8% of the drives. If they don't get off the field after three plays they rank only 18th in the league in forcing a punt afterwards though.

I really don't know if there's any way for you to understand it. The Packers defense isn't on the field for many plays compared to other teams. Maybe taking a look at the table below will help you out.

Here's the ranking of defenses in the league based on plays on the field per game this season:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Good info and that helps. Thank You Captain!
Now let's use that general mean to dive a little further and look closer at OUR games

Where was the Time of Possession and snaps of our losses verses wins? Let's look at success (Wins) verses failures (Losses)


In the 4 LOSSES the GB Defense was on the Field for 32:22 average per contest and 62 snaps (+4.5 snaps from average)

In the 3 WINS the GB Defense was on the Field for 27:30 per contest 53 snaps (-4.5 snaps off the mean)

I'll let you guys decide if this was an anomaly. For myself, it proves even further that when WE (Packers Offense) control the flow of the clock and snap count, we tend to be more successful and vice versa.
When our Defense is on the Field for more than >32 minutes (Pats, Giants, WTF) we give up 24.67 points per game and 63 snaps (I omitted the Vikings so as not to split hairs (31:23 D field time and 61 snaps with 23 points allowed)
When our Defense is on the Field for less than <28 minutes? (Chicago. Tampa) We allow 11.00 points per game and 51 snaps

This isn't rocket science, you have to give your Defense a rest and keep their Offense off the field as much as possible, particularly if they are a potent Offense like Buffalo. If GB can win both TOP by 2 minutes and go even or better on Snap counts on Offense, our chances of winning (which I have at about 20%) will Double

 

[milani]

As far as this offense/defense blame game. IMO the defense is actually playing farther below my expectations than the offense is, and the offense sucks. IMO.

How bout ST?

 

[OldSchool101]

As far as this offense/defense blame game. IMO the defense is actually playing farther below my expectations than the offense is, and the offense sucks. IMO.

Really?? Take away 7 points for the INT TD and 7 points for a fumble by ST and our Defense is allowing 18.86 points per contest. Had we done that last season in 2021?? This Defense would rank #3 in the league behind #1 Buffalo 17.00/gm and #2 NE 17.82/gm
Had our Offense and ST not completely gotten blown up by those 2 plays we'd be tied for 9th place in scoring (tied with 2019 season and behind 2010 season)
While I might agree that we are not playing to our ability or to our "paper" standard, in points allowed it is one of the best 3 Defenses we've had in the last 13 seasons.


Our Offense on the other hand??
Passing Yards: 13th?
Rushing Yards: 16th?
Points For: 23rd??
*accurately we are 26th in scoring at 119 NET points by our OFFENSE

If you took back the Safety that our Defense forced and the Pick 6 that Rodgers credited to our Defense (9 points) Our Offense has scored 119 points in 7 games for 17.0 per contest! Do you realize that to get a worse Packers Offensive scoring unit we would have to go back 40 years to when Bart Starr was coaching? (although I think there was a season at 16.9 per (strike season maybe?))

Just a totally egregious level of Offensive play to a point I hear Circus music playing in the background


Defense:
7th in yards allowed,
16th in Points (should be 9th but due to Offense and ST blunders)
8th in 1st Downs #
3rd in 3rd Down %
8th in plays allowed
20th in Rushing TD
5th in Passing TD
10th in TOTAL TD allowed

 

[milani]

Really?? Take away 7 points for the INT TD and 7 points for a fumble by ST and our Defense is allowing 18.86 points per contest. Had we done that last season in 2021?? This Defense would rank #3 in the league behind #1 Buffalo 17.00/gm and #2 NE 17.82/gm
Had our Offense and ST not completely gotten blown up by those 2 plays we'd be tied for 9th place in scoring (tied with 2019 season and behind 2010 season)
While I might agree that we are not playing to our ability or to our "paper" standard, in points allowed it is one of the best 3 Defenses we've had in the last 13 seasons.


Our Offense on the other hand??
Passing Yards: 13th?
Rushing Yards: 16th?
Points For: 23rd??
*accurately we are 26th in scoring at 119 NET points by our OFFENSE

If you took back the Safety that our Defense forced and the Pick 6 that Rodgers credited to our Defense (9 points) Our Offense has scored 119 points in 7 games for 17.0 per contest! Do you realize that to get a worse Packers Offensive scoring unit we would have to go back 40 years to when Bart Starr was coaching? (although I think there was a season at 16.9 per (strike season maybe?))

Just a totally egregious level of Offensive play to a point I hear Circus music playing in the background


Defense:
7th in yards allowed,
16th in Points (should be 9th but due to Offense and ST blunders)
8th in 1st Downs #
3rd in 3rd Down %
8th in plays allowed
20th in Rushing TD
5th in Passing TD
10th in TOTAL TD allowed

Had we had any defense over the last decade that could allow only 18-19 points per game and we likely win at least 1 if not more SBs.

 

[OldSchool101]

Had we had any defense over the last decade that could allow only 18-19 points per game and we likely win at least 1 if not more SBs.

I 100% agree.

This is a guess, but if our Offense found a way to have a little more success in scoring, it would force some opponents to revert more to the passing game later in the game to save the game clock. Instead they get ahead and use their run game to destroy the clock.

A Packers Offense scoring just 24+ points per contest would force opponents to throw into our D strength. Pass D. Because they see GB struggling to score 17 points all day? they instead just run like crazy people.

To Win a SB you can potentially do it with a top 8-14 type Defense (which is where we float) but it’s near impossible to have any Defense good enough to compensate for a 23-26th ranked Offense. (E.G, see Denver Broncos).
Anything except for maybe the best several Defenses in the Superbowl era would not compensate for this Offense. Maybe just maybe the 2002 Tampa Bay Bucs, 2006 Baltimore, 1985 Bears, 1976 Steelers, 1972 Dolphins, 1970 Vikings etc.,

Past that you got nothing unless you can hold Buffalo to <13 points.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Good info and that helps. Thank You Captain!
Now let's use that general mean to dive a little further and look closer at OUR games

Where was the Time of Possession and snaps of our losses verses wins? Let's look at success (Wins) verses failures (Losses)


In the 4 LOSSES the GB Defense was on the Field for 32:22 average per contest and 62 snaps (+4.5 snaps from average)

In the 3 WINS the GB Defense was on the Field for 27:30 per contest 53 snaps (-4.5 snaps off the mean)

I'll let you guys decide if this was an anomaly. For myself, it proves even further that when WE (Packers Offense) control the flow of the clock and snap count, we tend to be more successful and vice versa.
When our Defense is on the Field for more than >32 minutes (Pats, Giants, WTF) we give up 24.67 points per game and 63 snaps (I omitted the Vikings so as not to split hairs (31:23 D field time and 61 snaps with 23 points allowed)
When our Defense is on the Field for less than <28 minutes? (Chicago. Tampa) We allow 11.00 points per game and 51 snaps

This isn't rocket science, you have to give your Defense a rest and keep their Offense off the field as much as possible, particularly if they are a potent Offense like Buffalo. If GB can win both TOP by 2 minutes and go even or better on Snap counts on Offense, our chances of winning (which I have at about 20%) will Double

It's not surprising the defense is on the field more often in losses than in wins. The same is true for the offense the other way around as well. They ran an average of 66 plays in wins while only 59.5 in losses.

Some of you act as if the defense doesn't have anything to do with how many snaps they're on the field.

For example, the four first downs the defense gave up on third-and-eight plus yards vs. the Commanders resulted in an additional 17 plays on that drives. Do you want to blame the offense for that as well?

Really?? Take away 7 points for the INT TD and 7 points for a fumble by ST and our Defense is allowing 18.86 points per contest. Had we done that last season in 2021?? This Defense would rank #3 in the league behind #1 Buffalo 17.00/gm and #2 NE 17.82/gm

Another thing some of you fail to understand is that if you eliminate points given up by the Packers' offense and special teams you need to do that for all other teams as well.

Another thing to consider when talking about this year's defense is that they haven't faced an opponent currently in the top 10 in scoring with the Vikings being the best at 13th.

Our Offense on the other hand??
Passing Yards: 13th?
Rushing Yards: 16th?
Points For: 23rd??
*accurately we are 26th in scoring at 119 NET points by our OFFENSE

Once again, you need to eliminate points scored by the defense and special teams for other teams as well.

If you took back the Safety that our Defense forced and the Pick 6 that Rodgers credited to our Defense (9 points) Our Offense has scored 119 points in 7 games for 17.0 per contest! Do you realize that to get a worse Packers Offensive scoring unit we would have to go back 40 years to when Bart Starr was coaching? (although I think there was a season at 16.9 per (strike season maybe?))

Don't get me wrong, there's no doubt this year's offense is worse than it has been in a long time. But the 2006 unit averaged only 16.6 points on offense.

Defense:
8th in plays allowed

With teams having played a different number of games it makes sense to take a look at the averages for some of those stats.

In that particular case the Packers rank second on plays allowed per game.

This is a guess, but if our Offense found a way to have a little more success in scoring, it would force some opponents to revert more to the passing game later in the game to save the game clock. Instead they get ahead and use their run game to destroy the clock.

You know the defense could do something about that by stopping the run, don't you?

 

[milani]

Good info and that helps. Thank You Captain!
Now let's use that general mean to dive a little further and look closer at OUR games

Where was the Time of Possession and snaps of our losses verses wins? Let's look at success (Wins) verses failures (Losses)


In the 4 LOSSES the GB Defense was on the Field for 32:22 average per contest and 62 snaps (+4.5 snaps from average)

In the 3 WINS the GB Defense was on the Field for 27:30 per contest 53 snaps (-4.5 snaps off the mean)

I'll let you guys decide if this was an anomaly. For myself, it proves even further that when WE (Packers Offense) control the flow of the clock and snap count, we tend to be more successful and vice versa.
When our Defense is on the Field for more than >32 minutes (Pats, Giants, WTF) we give up 24.67 points per game and 63 snaps (I omitted the Vikings so as not to split hairs (31:23 D field time and 61 snaps with 23 points allowed)
When our Defense is on the Field for less than <28 minutes? (Chicago. Tampa) We allow 11.00 points per game and 51 snaps

This isn't rocket science, you have to give your Defense a rest and keep their Offense off the field as much as possible, particularly if they are a potent Offense like Buffalo. If GB can win both TOP by 2 minutes and go even or better on Snap counts on Offense, our chances of winning (which I have at about 20%) will Double

This is a brilliant post!

 

[Schultz]

Good info and that helps. Thank You Captain!
Now let's use that general mean to dive a little further and look closer at OUR games

Where was the Time of Possession and snaps of our losses verses wins? Let's look at success (Wins) verses failures (Losses)


In the 4 LOSSES the GB Defense was on the Field for 32:22 average per contest and 62 snaps (+4.5 snaps from average)

In the 3 WINS the GB Defense was on the Field for 27:30 per contest 53 snaps (-4.5 snaps off the mean)

I'll let you guys decide if this was an anomaly. For myself, it proves even further that when WE (Packers Offense) control the flow of the clock and snap count, we tend to be more successful and vice versa.
When our Defense is on the Field for more than >32 minutes (Pats, Giants, WTF) we give up 24.67 points per game and 63 snaps (I omitted the Vikings so as not to split hairs (31:23 D field time and 61 snaps with 23 points allowed)
When our Defense is on the Field for less than <28 minutes? (Chicago. Tampa) We allow 11.00 points per game and 51 snaps

This isn't rocket science, you have to give your Defense a rest and keep their Offense off the field as much as possible, particularly if they are a potent Offense like Buffalo. If GB can win both TOP by 2 minutes and go even or better on Snap counts on Offense, our chances of winning (which I have at about 20%) will Double

It works both ways. If the GB offense can run more plays and increase t.o.p. the defense will be on the field less. If the defense can prevent the other team from running more plays and having more t.o.p. than they will be on the field less. You are both correct, as well as you are both wrong.

 

[Schultz]

Really?? Take away 7 points for the INT TD and 7 points for a fumble by ST and our Defense is allowing 18.86 points per contest. Had we done that last season in 2021?? This Defense would rank #3 in the league behind #1 Buffalo 17.00/gm and #2 NE 17.82/gm
Had our Offense and ST not completely gotten blown up by those 2 plays we'd be tied for 9th place in scoring (tied with 2019 season and behind 2010 season)
While I might agree that we are not playing to our ability or to our "paper" standard, in points allowed it is one of the best 3 Defenses we've had in the last 13 seasons.


Our Offense on the other hand??
Passing Yards: 13th?
Rushing Yards: 16th?
Points For: 23rd??
*accurately we are 26th in scoring at 119 NET points by our OFFENSE

If you took back the Safety that our Defense forced and the Pick 6 that Rodgers credited to our Defense (9 points) Our Offense has scored 119 points in 7 games for 17.0 per contest! Do you realize that to get a worse Packers Offensive scoring unit we would have to go back 40 years to when Bart Starr was coaching? (although I think there was a season at 16.9 per (strike season maybe?))

Just a totally egregious level of Offensive play to a point I hear Circus music playing in the background


Defense:
7th in yards allowed,
16th in Points (should be 9th but due to Offense and ST blunders)
8th in 1st Downs #
3rd in 3rd Down %
8th in plays allowed
20th in Rushing TD
5th in Passing TD
10th in TOTAL TD allowed

IMO. The Packers have a bottom 20% talent level on offense. The are doing slightly less than what can be reasonably expected. They have a top 15% talent level on defense and they are playing much worse than expected. IMO.

 

[milani]

It works both ways. If the GB offense can run more plays and increase t.o.p. the defense will be on the field less. If the defense can prevent the other team from running more plays and having more t.o.p. than they will be on the field less. You are both correct, as well as you are both wrong.

What was that old saying whether in sports or in war? The BEST defense is a GOOD offense?

 

[OldSchool101]

Another thing some of you fail to understand is that if you eliminate points given up by the Packers' offense and special teams you need to do that for all other teams as well.

true. But I don’t fail to understand see, you have underestimated me once again.
You should really look it up you have the resources and your going to be so crass about it. Let me help you with your own argument there, I’m a true friend. I’ll give you a heads start of how unlikely it is.

How many teams have more than >14 points Allowed by their ST and Offense in the form of Fumble TD, INT TD, TD allowed on Punting Or Kicking teams?

I can tell you for certain The Packers own 1 INT TD (Offense)
and
1 Fumble TD (ST)

I also know there’s now 18TD INT
I also know 10TD fumbles
Plus 1 KR TD (Duvernay-Ravens)

29 total - 2 known from GB = 27

27/31 remain’ teams = .87 per team

7 points X .87 = roughly 6 points average lost across 31 remaining teams

Summary: Packers lost 14 pts, but on average everyone else lost 6 pts.
If I deducted that 6 pts, GB Defense had been credited with 8 points net more than league average. That 8 points erased is still enough to make them a legit Top 10 Defense.
You’ll have to check for a team Anomoly, but arguable GB is top 10 area in points allowed (138/137 with Houston there) The only teams that would affect our D ranking is 1 or 2 on just either side of us. It would be an anomoly to say that other teams will pass GB scoring D. A hard reach at best unless priven otherwise.

But Use the
Cardinals opponents (4TD)
Panthers opponents (3TD)
Maybe maybe opponents of
Pats (2)
Cowboys (2)
Falcons (2)
49ers (2)
Raiders (2)

All other teams had 1 TD turnover credited and 13 teams had zero. You need 3 or 4 or more of those Remaining 27 Turnovers to be applied to the same team AND it must be sniffing GB in D scoring ranking. Either #10-#15 D ranking area will be the only ones that factor.
Look only at Houston, Indi, MN, Tampa, Washington, Jags, Jets That’s about your only hope and it’s a super duper slimmy



Good Luck!

 

[milani]

true. But I don’t fail to understand see, you have underestimated me once again.
You should really look it up you have the resources and your going to be so crass about it. Let me help you with your own argument there, I’m a true friend. I’ll give you a heads start of how unlikely it is.

How many teams have more than >14 points Allowed by their ST and Offense in the form of Fumble TD, INT TD, TD allowed on Punting Or Kicking teams?

I can tell you for certain The Packers own 1 INT TD (Offense)
and
1 Fumble TD (ST)

I also know there’s now 18TD INT
I also know 10TD fumbles
Plus 1 KR TD (Duvernay-Ravens)

29 total - 2 known from GB = 27

27/31 remain’ teams = .87 per team

7 points X .87 = roughly 6 points average lost across 31 remaining teams

Summary: Packers lost 14 pts, but on average everyone else lost 6 pts.
If I deducted that 6 pts, GB Defense had been credited with 8 points net more than league average. That 8 points erased is still enough to make them a legit Top 10 Defense.
You’ll have to check for a team Anomoly, but arguable GB is top 10 area in points allowed (138/137 with Houston there) The only teams that would affect our D ranking is 1 or 2 on just either side of us. It would be an anomoly to say that other teams will pass GB scoring D. A hard reach at best unless priven otherwise.

But Use the
Cardinals opponents (4TD)
Panthers opponents (3TD)
Maybe maybe opponents of
Pats (2)
Cowboys (2)
Falcons (2)
49ers (2)
Raiders (2)

All other teams had 1 TD turnover credited and 13 teams had zero. You need 3 or 4 or more of those Remaining 27 Turnovers to be applied to the same team AND it must be sniffing GB in D scoring ranking. Either #10-#15 D ranking area will be the only ones that factor.
Look only at Houston, Indi, MN, Tampa, Washington, Jags, Jets That’s about your only hope and it’s a super duper slimmy



Good Luck!

Very strong analysis!

 

[OldSchool101]

Very strong analysis!

Thank you! It’s a tough argument because it’s hard to extract that info he proposed.
But I’m supposed to be taking a nap and I’m not tired so I thought I’d help! Lol.

Some of you act as if the defense doesn't have anything to do with how many snaps they're on the field.

They definitely do. I’m not one if them. I want us to improve BOTH areas.
That said our 17 point per game scoring Offense is far worse than our 18 points allowed Defense. We can make a modest improvement in our Run D and it might take us to 16 points per contests allowed. That would be a pretty dominant D at that point.

We can do much much much more than improving by 2 points on this Offense per contest.
Which is more important
A. reducing our D scoring by 2 points?
B. Increasing our O scoring by 6 points? Which are you going to prioritize your time on more??
For example, the four first downs the defense gave up on third-and-eight plus yards vs. the Commanders resulted in an additional 17 plays on that drives. Do you want to blame the offense for that as well?
Do you really believe that I think we have a good Run Defense? Where on earth did you get that from?

Another thing to consider when talking about this year's defense is that they haven't faced an opponent currently in the top 10 in scoring with the Vikings being the best at 13th.

Well You’ve got your wish and I want no complaints when we hold them to 6 points!!

 

[OldSchool101]

Don't get me wrong, there's no doubt this year's offense is worse than it has been in a long time. But the 2006 unit averaged only 16.6 points on offense.

Well that doesn’t make me feel better. You couldn’t find anything promising without going back 16 seasons?
We’re in bigger trouble than I realized

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It works both ways. If the GB offense can run more plays and increase t.o.p. the defense will be on the field less. If the defense can prevent the other team from running more plays and having more t.o.p. than they will be on the field less.

I fully understand that. The discussion started with some posters making an excuse for the defense because they're on the field that much. That's simply not true though.

true. But I don’t fail to understand see, you have underestimated me once again.
You should really look it up you have the resources and your going to be so crass about it. Let me help you with your own argument there, I’m a true friend. I’ll give you a heads start of how unlikely it is.

How many teams have more than >14 points Allowed by their ST and Offense in the form of Fumble TD, INT TD, TD allowed on Punting Or Kicking teams?

I can tell you for certain The Packers own 1 INT TD (Offense)
and
1 Fumble TD (ST)

I also know there’s now 18TD INT
I also know 10TD fumbles
Plus 1 KR TD (Duvernay-Ravens)

29 total - 2 known from GB = 27

27/31 remain’ teams = .87 per team

7 points X .87 = roughly 6 points average lost across 31 remaining teams

Summary: Packers lost 14 pts, but on average everyone else lost 6 pts.
If I deducted that 6 pts, GB Defense had been credited with 8 points net more than league average. That 8 points erased is still enough to make them a legit Top 10 Defense.
You’ll have to check for a team Anomoly, but arguable GB is top 10 area in points allowed (138/137 with Houston there) The only teams that would affect our D ranking is 1 or 2 on just either side of us. It would be an anomoly to say that other teams will pass GB scoring D. A hard reach at best unless priven otherwise.

But Use the
Cardinals opponents (4TD)
Panthers opponents (3TD)
Maybe maybe opponents of
Pats (2)
Cowboys (2)
Falcons (2)
49ers (2)
Raiders (2)

All other teams had 1 TD turnover credited and 13 teams had zero. You need 3 or 4 or more of those Remaining 27 Turnovers to be applied to the same team AND it must be sniffing GB in D scoring ranking. Either #10-#15 D ranking area will be the only ones that factor.
Look only at Houston, Indi, MN, Tampa, Washington, Jags, Jets That’s about your only hope and it’s a super duper slimmy



Good Luck!

Actually you could have saved all the work put into this post by justing using Football Outsiders' drive stats to figure out how many points each defense has given up this season.

Before yesterday's game against the Bills the Packers were tied for 10th in that category in the league. On the other hand the offense was ranked only 27th in points scored.

What you have failed to understand is that I'm definitely not suggesting the offense is any good. It's pretty obvious they have struggled to put up points all season. That was to be expected based on a lack of talent at both wide receiver and tight end.

My point is that the defense, which was regarded as an elite unit entering the season, hasn't lived up to it so far though.

Well that doesn’t make me feel better. You couldn’t find anything promising without going back 16 seasons?
We’re in bigger trouble than I realized

It's not surprising this year's offense is performing worse than it has in a long time considering they haven't lacked as much talent on that side of the ball forever.

 

[milani]

I fully understand that. The discussion started with some posters making an excuse for the defense because they're on the field that much. That's simply not true though.



Actually you could have saved all the work put into this post by justing using Football Outsiders' drive stats to figure out how many points each defense has given up this season.

Before yesterday's game against the Bills the Packers were tied for 10th in that category in the league. On the other hand the offense was ranked only 27th in points scored.

What you have failed to understand is that I'm definitely not suggesting the offense is any good. It's pretty obvious they have struggled to put up points all season. That was to be expected based on a lack of talent at both wide receiver and tight end.

My point is that the defense, which was regarded as an elite unit entering the season, hasn't lived up to it so far though.



It's not surprising this year's offense is performing worse than it has in a long time considering they haven't lacked as much talent on that side of the ball forever.

Who regarded our defense as elite going into the season? Wishful thinkers? Too many people use the 9ers loss as a rising Phoenix for the defense because they held that opponent to 2 FGs in icy January and lost because of ST. Certainly they were better than Packer defenses of the last decade but never elite.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Who regarded our defense as elite going into the season? Wishful thinkers?

There was a lot of talk about the defense being an elite unit entering the season, especially after they dominated the offense for nearly all of camp.

On paper, they definitely have the talent to be one of the best units in the league. Unfortunately they haven't performed up to it though.

 

[milani]

There was a lot of talk about the defense being an elite unit entering the season, especially after they dominated the offense for nearly all of camp.

On paper, they definitely have the talent to be one of the best units in the league. Unfortunately they haven't performed up to it though.

When a team has had virtually NO defense for a decade ANY statistical and observable improvement is mistaken for Moses reaching the Promised Land.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

When a team has had virtually NO defense for a decade ANY statistical and observable improvement is mistaken for Moses reaching the Promised Land.

There's no doubt in my mind the Packers have enough talented players to field an elite defense. It seems the coaching staff isn't able to come up with a scheme to have them perform up to potential though.