official Jimmy Graham signed

[Sunshinepacker]

Same could be set with just about every new top FA signed, its the nature of inflation in the NFL. Is Cousins worth more than some of the QB's making less than him? What would Gronk or Kelce be paid if they were free agents? If you want to sign top free agents, you have to play the market with the other 31 teams. Now if we find out that everyone else was offering Graham $7M/year, then we way overpaid. The Packers saw a player they wanted, went after him and got him. This idea of signing guys at "the best possible value" is probably what got us into a bit of trouble with TT's approach to Free Agency.

By definition, only one guy can he the highest paid player at his position. The Packers decided that Graham was going to be the guy at tight end with the largest average annual salary. I'm not sure any metric beyond "you gotta overpay somewhat to bring guys to Green Bay" would justify that. Your justification for overpaying seems to be that you have to overpay to get top players, and that's true, but that's also what gets teams into cap problems. Paying a guy the most money at his position with the justification that "others would make more" isn't a great way to sign guys.

And regarding QB contracts, actual skill doesn't seem to have much to do with it, seems like all that matters is if a guy is relatively competent (and not political) then they get a massive contract. Doesn't make much sense but hey, Packers have the best so I don't really care.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

By definition, only one guy can he the highest paid player at his position. The Packers decided that Graham was going to be the guy at tight end with the largest average annual salary. I'm not sure any metric beyond "you gotta overpay somewhat to bring guys to Green Bay" would justify that. Your justification for overpaying seems to be that you have to overpay to get top players, and that's true, but that's also what gets teams into cap problems. Paying a guy the most money at his position with the justification that "others would make more" isn't a great way to sign guys.

And regarding QB contracts, actual skill doesn't seem to have much to do with it, seems like all that matters is if a guy is relatively competent (and not political) then they get a massive contract. Doesn't make much sense but hey, Packers have the best so I don't really care.

If you are going to use the term "top paid at his position" should equate to "best player at his position", then you are looking at this inside a small bubble. Again, if Gronk and Kelce, two TE's that are better than Graham were released today, what do you think they would get paid on a new contract? People were screaming that Davante Adams may have been overpaid, do you think he is now?

Is Fuller better than some of the CB's working off older contracts? Cousins? Look around the league at some of the FA signings this year and ask yourself, are those guys making more than a player that is better than them but signed a contract last year or years prior?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Jimmy Graham 2013 86 receptions 1200+ yards, 16 TDs.

5 years can be a lifetime in this leage.

 

[mongoosev]

graham could be a gem again with rod. better him than mart bonehentt.

 

[sschind]

5 years can be a lifetime in this leage.

So can 2

 

[sschind]

By definition, only one guy can he the highest paid player at his position. The Packers decided that Graham was going to be the guy at tight end with the largest average annual salary. I'm not sure any metric beyond "you gotta overpay somewhat to bring guys to Green Bay" would justify that. Your justification for overpaying seems to be that you have to overpay to get top players, and that's true, but that's also what gets teams into cap problems. Paying a guy the most money at his position with the justification that "others would make more" isn't a great way to sign guys.

And regarding QB contracts, actual skill doesn't seem to have much to do with it, seems like all that matters is if a guy is relatively competent (and not political) then they get a massive contract. Doesn't make much sense but hey, Packers have the best so I don't really care.

It sounds like you are saying the top paid player at every position is automatically over paid. Soon the Packers will have the best and the highest paid so the universe with finally be right with itself and we can all live in harmony. That is until the next franchise QB signs a new deal (Matt Ryan in 2019).

 

[HardRightEdge]

Jimmy Graham 2013 86 receptions 1200+ yards, 16 TDs

Richard Rodgers 2017 12 rec. 160 yds 1 TD

I figure if you can pick and chose the stats that fit your argument why can't everybody else.

Actually it was somebody else who started cherry picking stats. I simply answered with an alternative. Was that you? I'm not going back to look.

One thing's for sure. I'll never go back 5 years as an illustration of what somebody can do today. The reason should be obvious.

 

[sschind]

Actually it was somebody else who started cherry picking stats. I simply answered with an alternative. Was that you? I'm not going back to look.

One thing's for sure. I'll never go back 5 years as an illustration of what somebody can do today. The reason should be obvious.

I doubt it was me. I rarely use stats as I think it has been shown that you can bend them any way you like. I may say something like "he was a 1200 yard 12 TD guy once and I think he can be again" but I wouldn't use stats as a direct comparison as to whether one player is better than another (or worth more or less money) because football is a team sport and surrounding players can have a big impact on any individuals stats. Players with down years with a particular team mate at a critical position may have huge years with a different, more accomplished, player at that position. Players under performing in one set of conditions may break out under a different set.

How many of us thought Hayward and Hyde were not worth the money they were paid when they left Green Bay? Given a different set of conditions I think we will all agree that they were. Is Jimmy Graham worth 11 million a year given the stats he put up in Seattle using their offensive style getting passes from Russell Wilson? probably not. Is Green Bay Seattle, No, do they have the same offensive style? not really. Is Russell Wilson Aaron Rodgers? Not even close. Could Jimmy Graham be worth 11 million in Green Bay? I think he could be.

 

[morango]

yes, I saw today it was finally official

Has anybody actually seen the numbers yet on Graham’s contract? We’re all assuming it is about the same as what Jordy Nelson would have gotten, but I still haven’t seen the actual contract amounts

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Has anybody actually seen the numbers yet on Graham’s contract? We’re all assuming it is about the same as what Jordy Nelson would have gotten, but I still haven’t seen the actual contract amounts

reportedly he signed for three years and $30 million. How that is all broken down in guarantees and/or incentives/bonuses I have not seen.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Here are the Graham contract details:

https://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-graham/1503/

They backloaded the deal with $11 mil in signing bonus, $7 million in dead cap in 2019.

Just win now, baby! Sheesh.

Top 51 Cap commitments for 2019 currenlty stand at $130 mil excluding the following players:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2019/all/green-bay-packers/

And that does not include Rodgers renegotiation, if there is one, nor the bite from this year's and next year's upper round picks.

Superbowl or bust!

 

[brandon2348]

Here are the Graham contract details:

https://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-graham/1503/

They backloaded the deal with $11 mil in signing bonus, $7 million in dead cap in 2019.

Just win now, baby! Sheesh.

Top 51 Cap commitments for 2019 currenlty stand at $130 mil excluding the following players:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2019/all/green-bay-packers/

And that does not include Rodgers renegotiation, if there is one, nor the bite from this year's and next year's upper round picks.

Superbowl or bust!

Rodgers is 34 so it better be Super Bowl or bust. Gotta make up for lost time due to Ted Thomspon. With 12 draft picks we can keep this thing going. The NFL is all about getting guys to play well on rookie contracts.

Graham is the icing on the cake.

 

[Mondio]

Here are the Graham contract details:

https://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-graham/1503/

They backloaded the deal with $11 mil in signing bonus, $7 million in dead cap in 2019.

Just win now, baby! Sheesh.

Top 51 Cap commitments for 2019 currenlty stand at $130 mil excluding the following players:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2019/all/green-bay-packers/

And that does not include Rodgers renegotiation, if there is one, nor the bite from this year's and next year's upper round picks.

Superbowl or bust!

Doesn't that say 3.6 million in dead money and 8 million in savings in 2019? But then it says 11 million in 2019 is guaranteed salary? and then in the paragraph it says the signing bonus is the only thing guaranteed in the contract? So which is it? I can never make sense of sites like this.

 

[thequick12]

5 years can be a lifetime in this leage.

2016 65 catches 923 yards 6 tds

I believe he can eclipse all of those numbers with Aaron Rodgers say
2018 70 catches 1000 yards 12 tds
Cap numbers are 2018/5.67 m 2019/12.67 m 2020/11.67 m
Will that be worth it ?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers didn't receive great value by signing Graham to a deal averaging $10 million a season but secured themselves a #1 tight end which was a top priority entering this offseason.

While it''s true that Graham didn't put up elite numbers in Seattle you have to realize that his 65 receptions for 923 yards in 2016 would both have set franchise records for the position in Green Bay.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Doesn't that say 3.6 million in dead money and 8 million in savings in 2019? But then it says 11 million in 2019 is guaranteed salary? and then in the paragraph it says the signing bonus is the only thing guaranteed in the contract? So which is it? I can never make sense of sites like this.

Here's a detailed look at the structure of Graham's contract.

Signing bonus: $11 million.

2018

Base Salary: $1.45 million.

Per game roster bonus (total): $300,000.

Workout bonus: $200,000.

Salary cap number: $5,666,667.



2019

Base salary: $3,450,000.

March roster bonus: $5 million.

Per-game roster bonus: $300,000.

Workout bonus: $250,000.

Salary-cap number: $12,666,667.



2020

Base salary: $7,450,000.

Per-game roster bonus total: $300,000.

Workout bonus: $250,000.

Salary-cap number: $11.67 million.

* Deal includes $250,000 Pro Bowl incentive each year.

The Packers releasing Graham after one season would result in a little bit over $7.3 million of dead money counting against the cap but would save $5.3 million of cap space.

It's interesting to note that he's due a $5 million roster bonus in March next year meaning the team will definitely hold on to him for the 2019 season if he claims that money.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Doesn't that say 3.6 million in dead money and 8 million in savings in 2019? But then it says 11 million in 2019 is guaranteed salary? and then in the paragraph it says the signing bonus is the only thing guaranteed in the contract? So which is it? I can never make sense of sites like this.

I was going to say, I prefer this site for contract information......or just wait for Captain to post the numbers.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/jimmy-graham-6603/

 

[HardRightEdge]

Doesn't that say 3.6 million in dead money and 8 million in savings in 2019? But then it says 11 million in 2019 is guaranteed salary? and then in the paragraph it says the signing bonus is the only thing guaranteed in the contract? So which is it? I can never make sense of sites like this.

It says quite clearly the only guaranteed money is the $11 million signing bonus. That's prorated over the term of the contract, $3.66 mil per year. The dead cap and savings you cite are for 2020, not 2019.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I was going to say, I prefer this site for contract information......or just wait for Captain to post the numbers.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/jimmy-graham-6603/

Whichever site you prefer, in this case they say exactly the same thing.

 

[RepStar15]

This is a very fair deal.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is a very fair deal.

Much better than what some were fearing for sure.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The Packers releasing Graham after one season would result in a little bit over $7.3 million of dead money counting against the cap but would save $5.3 million of cap space.

It's interesting to note that he's due a $5 million roster bonus in March next year meaning the team will definitely hold on to him for the 2019 season if he claims that money.

This contract illustrates how backloading the cap is not some kind of free lunch.

When it comes to 2019, the only relevant questions are:

1) "Will we get equal or greater than $5.3 million in production" because that's the cap savings if the player is cut before the start of the league year and

2) Who else ya got?

If, for example, at the conclusion of this season Graham is deemed to be a $6 million player with no obvious cheaper replacement (e.g., a guy on a rookie deal who can replace that production), then you are taking a $12.7 mil cap hit for a $6 mil player.

As for "if he claims the money", that sounds like a player option. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but to be clear it's the Packers' decision at that point to "pay or cut". There's no question the Packers will keep Graham for 2019 if they pay that bonus next March because after that the cap savings drops to $33,000 if they cut him.

 

[RepStar15]

This contract illustrates how backloading the cap is not some kind of free lunch.

When it comes to 2019, the only relevant questions are:

1) "Will we get equal or greater than $5.3 million in production" because that's the cap savings if the player is cut before the start of the league year and

2) Who else ya got?

If, for example, at the conclusion of this season Graham is deemed to be a $6 million player with no obvious cheaper replacement (e.g., a guy on a rookie deal who can replace that production), then you are taking a $12.7 mil cap hit for a $6 mil player.

As for "if he claims the money", that sounds like a player option. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but to be clear it's the Packers' decision at that point to "pay or cut". There's no question the Packers will keep Graham for 2019 if they pay that bonus next March because after than the cap savings goes to $33,000.

Essentially, this is a one year “prove it deal” that has him inked in for the preceding two years should they choose to pay him. I like the way this was structured, it is fair for someone with absolute game changing ability, but may not pull in 10 red zones TDS in this system.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As for "if he claims the money", that sounds like a player option. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but to be clear it's the Packers' decision at that point to "pay or cut".

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. My post could have easily been misunderstood.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Essentially, this is a one year “prove it deal” that has him inked in for the preceding two years should they choose to pay him. I like the way this was structured, it is fair for someone with absolute game changing ability, but may not pull in 10 red zones TDS in this system.

Wilkerson signed a one-year, prove-it deal. That's not the case with Graham though as the Packers would pay him $13 million for a single season if they decide to release him before the start of the 2019 league year. In addition the team would take a cap hit of $7.3 million in dead money at that point.