Offensive Talent

[Calvin]

Yeah, 4.22 would rock.

Where in the F do we find that?!!!! Ha! Cal, I’m all for it.

Btw, Ross had a career day, nearly reaching his yds total for all of 15 games played last year of 210 yds total with 158 yds on 7 catches w 12 targets Sunday v. Seattle. He had 58 targets last year w 21 receptions. If he keeps that up we’ll all know him.

Wanted to temper my remarks though by seeing what he’s done previously. Not a good set of numbers last year. Fast doesn’t equal hands/route running, etc.

Really, all this stuff about finding a quality, true #2 WR I find kind of overwhelming. I mean, we have quality WRs that Rodgers trusts. He seems to have showered props on every one of them that made this roster.

Let’s just let them work and see what they do. If there is a problem, I believe Gutes would address it.

Not like we’ve had a bunch of drops or blown assignments/routes from this WR group.

 

[Calvin]

I think Rodgers was alway built for the offense ran in Kansas City. He will forever hold on to the ball, he likes big plays, no wonder he's the king of the hailmary lol

 

[greengold]

I think Rodgers was alway built for the offense ran in Kansas City. He will forever hold on to the ball, he likes big plays, no wonder he's the king of the hailmary lol

See, that’s what I personally hope he can be persuaded away from. He will do us no good if he gets injured again, and he will do his own legacy no good. Aaron needs to realize he has a guide to a successful career’s end in LaFleur. I do believe that is the case. Jones should have had over 20 carries, not 14, or 12, or whatever it was.

Outlet passes also help prolong a QB’s career.

I just hope that is emphasized by LaFleur.

He’s older. He’s suffered numerous major injuries. Face facts, man!!! (Meaning Rodgers himself). Prolong your career by exposing yourself less to being taken down. Easy.

 

[Do7]

Guys come on. We're on the same side aren't we? Btw where have you been @PackerfaninCarolina?

 

[PackAttack12]

Well better than you constantly bringing this to the forum

Whether you think @Dantés ‘s opinion is **** or gold, at least he’s willing to debate and/or communicate it. Whereas you on the other hand throw a red ‘x’ out there with zero explanation.

Do I really need to clarify which forum member’s posting style I have more respect for?

 

[PackAttack12]

Guys come on. We're on the same side aren't we?

This ain’t an episode of full house, Danny Tanner.

 

[Do7]

This ain’t an episode of full house, Danny Tanner.

I never really saw Full House.

 

[greengold]

That one chick who got busted for recent college entry scandal was hot.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think Thursday night was "rust" it was a dominating defense ready to play and an offense that just doesn't know what it is yet

See, that’s what I personally hope he can be persuaded away from. He will do us no good if he gets injured again, and he will do his own legacy no good. Aaron needs to realize he has a guide to a successful career’s end in LaFleur. I do believe that is the case. Jones should have had over 20 carries, not 14, or 12, or whatever it was.

Outlet passes also help prolong a QB’s career.

I just hope that is emphasized by LaFleur.

He’s older. He’s suffered numerous major injuries. Face facts, man!!! (Meaning Rodgers himself). Prolong your career by exposing yourself less to being taken down. Easy.

It's been one game, but did you see how Jones ran? you can't go for 0,0,-2,2,-2 or whatever it is every time you're given the ball. Our running was atrocious, part was the Bears for sure, but they haven't been able to run the ball when they needed to for a number of years now. and the few short passes they tried, the Bears defense was so fast and on it, it had no chance, coupled with some pretty poor throws by Rodgers.

It's nice to say we need to do these things, but they have to improve dramatically at these things before they become a viable part of an offense if we want to have any chances at winning.

 

[sschind]

This ain’t an episode of full house, Danny Tanner.

Aunt Becky is going to be very popular if she goes to prison.

That one chick who got busted for recent college entry scandal was hot.

You need to be more specific. The other was Felicity Huffman.

 

[sschind]

I don't think Thursday night was "rust" it was a dominating defense ready to play and an offense that just doesn't know what it is yet

It's been one game, but did you see how Jones ran? you can't go for 0,0,-2,2,-2 or whatever it is every time you're given the ball. Our running was atrocious, part was the Bears for sure, but they haven't been able to run the ball when they needed to for a number of years now. and the few short passes they tried, the Bears defense was so fast and on it, it had no chance, coupled with some pretty poor throws by Rodgers.

It's nice to say we need to do these things, but they have to improve dramatically at these things before they become a viable part of an offense if we want to have any chances at winning.

I'm hoping that MLF puts more emphasis on the running game more than just the lip service it got under the previous Packers incarnation. You say we haven't been able to run when we need to. I'm not sure in the past we really tried to run when we needed to it was more like whenever the mood struck. MM made comments regarding committing to the run but I don't think a serious effort was ever really made. You can/t have 3 bad runs and give up if you want defenses to take it seriously.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Whether you think @Dantés ‘s opinion is **** or gold, at least he’s willing to debate and/or communicate it. Whereas you on the other hand throw a red ‘x’ out there with zero explanation.

Do I really need to clarify which forum member’s posting style I have more respect for?

You know last I checked the red X said "disagree". Pretty sure that's self explanatory for when a poster gets facts twisted.

 

[Mondio]

I think use of the red X should be for those who can discern the difference between facts and delusions/childish impulses.

 

[greengold]

I don't think Thursday night was "rust" it was a dominating defense ready to play and an offense that just doesn't know what it is yet

It's been one game, but did you see how Jones ran? you can't go for 0,0,-2,2,-2 or whatever it is every time you're given the ball. Our running was atrocious, part was the Bears for sure, but they haven't been able to run the ball when they needed to for a number of years now. and the few short passes they tried, the Bears defense was so fast and on it, it had no chance, coupled with some pretty poor throws by Rodgers.

It's nice to say we need to do these things, but they have to improve dramatically at these things before they become a viable part of an offense if we want to have any chances at winning.

Jones broke off some nice runs in the 2nd half.

 

[Dantés]

You know last I checked the red X said "disagree". Pretty sure that's self explanatory for when a poster gets facts twisted.

You don't really get the idea of a "forum," do you?

 

[greengold]

I'm hoping that MLF puts more emphasis on the running game more than just the lip service it got under the previous Packers incarnation. You say we haven't been able to run when we need to. I'm not sure in the past we really tried to run when we needed to it was more like whenever the mood struck. MM made comments regarding committing to the run but I don't think a serious effort was ever really made. You can/t have 3 bad runs and give up if you want defenses to take it seriously.

Exactly my feelings.

1st quarter, yeah, it was a disaster with zero blocking. 9 plays for -13 yds. 2nd Quarter: pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, run. That was a great run by Jamal Williams for 5 yds on 1st at 9:30.

What happens next? End around with MVS for 0 yds. 3rd & 5: pass, pass, run for a loss at 7:00.

Jamaal rips a great 5 yd run up the middle, and he can’t get another rushing attempt for 2 and a half minutes?

3rd & 6. What do you think they are going to do? Run?

Aaron drops back and gets sacked by a full on blitz.

Next series: Jones run for 3 on 1st down, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, PUNT.

To this point in Q2, Aaron Rodgers has handed the ball off to his RB 3 times on dedicated runs resulting in a 5 yd gain, a 0 yd, and a 3yd.

You mean to tell me play action is going to work when you only run 16% of the time?

My point is, you gotta have some stones to stick with the run. And I believe there is a good coaching moment, if AR is checking out of runs to pass. How can any RB get momentum with that kind of minimal use & touches? THOSE 3 CARRIES SPLIT BETWEEN 2 RBs!!!

Oh, yeah, gee, we just could not run...

Let’s look at 2nd half.

1st play nice run by Jones for 3. Pass. Pass. Pass and Rodgers nearly killed on a jail break. Pass. Pass. Rodgers has to scramble for 1st to avoid sack and fumble. Holding. Pass. Sack.

What a way to start the half. One positive run for our RB and 6 pass plays resulting in AARON GETTING KILLED 3 TIMES!

Wait for it... next series he hands off to RB Jones for 0 yds. Next play, fake the run, sacked. Next play, run fake, pass for -3. PUNT

Next series. 9 yd run by Jones. 7 yd run. 1st down. 3 yd run by Jones and gets kicked in nuts by Roquan Smith. 3 runs in a row and SHOCKER, they were effective.

Followed by pass, run on pitch to Williams minus 2. Empty backfield false start 2nd & 12 makes it now 2nd & 17, and of course AR gets the cheap shot take down with no whistle running for his life. 3rd & 17, you know the drill. Aaron running for his life again. PUNT end Q3.

That is not a running game that simply isn’t working...

Mondio, see what I mean?

Start Q4 on our own 5 yd line. Run by Jones for 2 yds. Pass on play action to Davis for big gain. Run by Jones for 2. Pass to Tonyan. Run by Jones for 6. 3rd & 4, Rodgers drops back to pass. SACKED. PASS INTERFERENCE.

1st down, two straight runs for 0 yds. 3rd down Aaron scrambles to set up FG.

We are able to run, but it will require more dedication and better blocking.

 

[Mondio]

Jones broke off some nice runs in the 2nd half.

I remember maybe 2 productive runs, that's not getting it done at all. I may be off, but a quick glance at drive chart shows runs of 0,0,0, 5,0,-1,3, 3,0, then something decent, 9,6,2 then -2, 1,2,6,0, -2,5,2,

We lost badly on almost every single running play. that's pathetic.

and my memory was only slightly off

 

[Mondio]

I'm hoping that MLF puts more emphasis on the running game more than just the lip service it got under the previous Packers incarnation. You say we haven't been able to run when we need to. I'm not sure in the past we really tried to run when we needed to it was more like whenever the mood struck. MM made comments regarding committing to the run but I don't think a serious effort was ever really made. You can/t have 3 bad runs and give up if you want defenses to take it seriously.

We did, it just hardly ever worked. We were successful against light fronts mostly. When it was 3rd and 2 or 3 and we'd run, we failed a lot. Just like on thursday, we couldn't even get 3 or 4 consistently on 1st down running. We haven't been a decent running team in terms of being able to run when we wanted to since practically Lacy's rookie season.

Do you keep running it and running it and running it when Rodgers is your QB? If we could line up against a front and get 3-4 yards consistently, then yes, you commit with the run and use it to build the pass. When you get 0,0,0,5,0,-1 then what? That's pathetic. You might not rip off 3,4,3,7 consistently against a front like the Bears, but you need to be able to get 3 yards almost every time or teams don't care about your run game at all. Why should they?

Should we have stuck with the run, or gone 4 straight passes for a TD? We need to run the ball better, period and it needs to be more consistent, but we can't get zero and negative yards so often or it doesn't matter.

 

[greengold]

I remember maybe 2 productive runs, that's not getting it done at all. I may be off, but a quick glance at drive chart shows runs of 0,0,0, 5,0,-1,3, 3,0, then something decent, 9,6,2 then -2, 1,2,6,0, -2,5,2,

We lost badly on almost every single running play. that's pathetic.

and my memory was only slightly off

I just went back to describe context of runs for you. Just kept adding in w edits as I viewed. Pretty much tells the story, if you erase 1st Q out of your memory. Jones & Williams busted off nice runs. They just didn’t stick with it. Blocking was horrific.

This offense was lucky to do just enough to win, and come out with Rodgers in one piece.

 

[Mondio]

I just went back to describe context of runs for you. Just kept adding in w edits as I viewed. Pretty much tells the story, if you erase 1st Q out of your memory. Jones & Williams busted off nice runs. They just didn’t stick with it. Blocking was horrific.

This offense was lucky to do just enough to win, and come out with Rodgers in one piece.

why erase the 1st quarter, and there is more context needed, what was the defensive alignment? We barely won at the LOS and less than a handful of positive runs out of 4 handfuls is not good no matter what the down and distance were. a neutral rush should be at least 3 yards, and then you stick with it. a 5 yarder only give confidence when you're getting "stuffed" and still getting 3. When you're getting zero and minus on most of them, 5 yards seems to be nothing but luck. Each back had 2 quality runs at best and a whole lot of bad ones. There is no other way to slice it really.

if you go zero, zero, zero, 15, 2 for a 3.4 yard average, that's not nearly as productive as 3, 4, 2, 5, 3 for a 3.4 yard average. Down and distance is going to be much more in your favor more often than not with the 2nd scenario over the first and will open up play action passing and make a defense have to defend the run. We're more like the 1st scenario and have been for a number of years. They need to get better.

 

[greengold]

Of course they need to get better.

My cable froze and had to reboot exactly at game start! Ha! That's why. Plus, it was a disaster. Was able to watch it but my recording didn't kick in until near the end of Q1. I know how they ran just like you do, and I know how cluster F'y it was that entire Q1, coming in ice cold with no preseason reps. By Q2, Rodgers and his O had some warm up, and they were able to do some stuff, but, they still gave up on running the ball, and I simply question why? Was that designed, or were run plays checked out?

Clearly, there was little true dedication to a solid rushing attack, and my point was to show we did have positive runs to build on, as opposed to your description of just two, and we didn't hit the gas on it. RBs need reps. They also need blocking, of which there was entirely too little. McGinn gave Vitale a very very low grade as well.

A lot to prove in this area, and I'm just interested to see how LaFleur is able to make adjustments to take more heat off of Rodgers by implementing a running game opponents will have to respect.

Look, I am a HUGE Aaron Rodgers fan. I just want the guy to be able to realize the dream a number of times. Get a few more rings. Can't do that if he's constantly getting killed trying to do too much. He has to be there healthy at the end of the season to get to the SB.. I did notice some of him trying too much and made mention of that in my descriptions of those plays. I bet he did check out of runs on many of those.

If your RB Williams is busting one up the middle for 5, let him do it again, and again. Jones ripped a 9 yd gain, followed by a 6, then a 2, and then it is pass, pass, pass, pass.... That's all I'm saying. Zero rhythm established for our RBs.

Personally, I seriously want us to become a power running team with Aaron Rodgers able to go GONZO for the next 5 years or more... That would open all the doors for him and this offense.

We are too one dimensional as it stands, and Aaron won't be able to take all of those hits with full on pass rush like we've seen for years. Gotta start somewhere. Why not here v. MIN?

 

[Mondio]

I thought Jones went out there for a bit? and what was the defensive front? many reasons to switch from running to passing. Vitale can have a low grade, they all should have get low grades, it was bad, but it's also a reason we didn't run more. They didn't earn more. backed up inside the 10 or 5 i think, run 3 times and see what happens? or see if Rodgers can throw it out of there? It was later in the game and I know what i'd feel more comfortable with.

I don't think they gave up on running near as much as it simply just sucked the majority of the time. I have a very strong feeling that if they were going for 5 or 6 on 1st down, they'd be getting the ball again on 2nd or 3rd down. But they weren't. it was zero and negative far too many times.

I can think of 2 drives where running was succesful and one was followed up after a 5 yard run by a zero or negative run. Couldn't get to 3rd and short to make the defense think run or pass. and the 1 other time was Jones going for 9,6,2. But that can't happen 1x per game. Maybe if he'd have had more 5 or 6 yarders instead of zero he would have had more carries.

 

[greengold]

Aaron Rodgers was sacked on more than 14% of the times he dropped back to pass...

Its cool, Mondio. I just think they could do more and block one hell of a lot better. We'll see what happens as we move forward. It was a pretty difficult game to evaluate anyway, given neither offense had started during preseason, and playing in CHI. I'm just super happy we came out with the W and our entire team relatively healthy.

 

[Mondio]

I know he was, i watched the game too. it's what happens when you can't run the ball and they have zero respect for it and can pin their ears back and attack. 3rd and 17 is not a great position to be in. we probably had more 3rd and 7+ plays than we had runs of more than 4 yards.

I'm not advocating making this a pass first offense where we throw the ball 70% of the time again. I don't want that. I'm sure they want to run the ball more, I want to run the ball more, but they must be more successful at it. When you go zero yards, they're only going to give you so many opportunities.

I think this is where you and some others and I differ, I think they ran fewer times because it was so unsuccessful. It mostly put them behind the sticks and that's not where you want to be against the Bears. And others think the run game wasn't great because they didn't run enough and i don't agree with that.

We all agree the blocking and running and production must get better and quickly.

 

[greengold]

Yep. We're going to find out soon enough over the next 4 weeks. BTW, Jones went out when Roquan Smith kicked him in the nuts as he was getting up off the ground while the two were tangled after the tackle. TOTAL cheap shot, and it was clearly intentional. Jones did return.