My thoughts on Favre

[P@ck66]

I respectfully disagree fellow, with your above post. I see no evidence or proof to back up your assertions.

It takes a team effort, especially on offense, to win games, and the Packer offense has been out of sync for the last several games. But they were in sync before that. So has Favre lost accuracy and power in just a few games then? Maybe, if that elbow is the cause of it, but I don't think he's hit the old age wall in just a couple of weeks, unless because of injury.

Yet, I still don't see it. In the last couple of weeks I've seen no running game, suspect pass blocking, and timing problems between the QB and the receivers. These are things that happen with a "young team", which is what the Packers are. That makes the most sense to me. Driver is double and triple covered. Jennings has been out for a few weeks. And who do you have after that?

Then how can QB and WR's develop a rhythmic passing game based upon timing and trust with the above situation? Lack of communication between QB and WR's, not on the same page with the QB, lack of time to set up throw a pass, (or to let a pass pattern fully develop) before the QB has to throw seems to explain things to me alot better than the above posters opinions and assertions, imo. Where is the proof, I say?

But, don't give up hope. These things can come together---hopefully, with work on timing in practice. It always seems that Favre has to "develop" receivers however, when some other teams have the luxury of seasoned veteran help.



Another thing is....nobody's mentioned the "Rookie Wall".....

Does anyone think that many of these rookies have hit the proverbial "Rookie Wall" and that this might have alot to do with the current state of the Green Bay Packers?

:twocents:
Any ideas..opinions?

 

[dxbfan]

MM, Jags and some of the players have said that they're using only a part of the playbook as they're trying to get those plays nailed down before they move on to more ambitious stuff. They also say that they have been in max protect more often than not and that means less people open. Further they say that Favre is running more plays with three step drops giving less time for people to get open and for him to find someone open.

Refer link below, interesting reading:

Inexperienced line limits the offense

 

[P@ck66]

Good point DXB..and good article.

Just goes to show, I guess, that's there's alot more to this stuff going on behind the scenes with the team as a whole, and that it, more often then not, does not just come down to one person or player.

 

[chibiabos]

Nice article Trom and tend to agree with your analysis. For the rest of you just take a moment with the other QB bashing and stop and think. Brett Favre gets hurt in an auto crash or messing around at home and can't play. Someone in Packerland had best have some replacement ready to step in. Whoever it it is will not be Brett Favre and his loyal fans will be sorely tried, but time waits for no man and the day is coming when your allegiance will have to go to some individual other then Brett and none of us knows who that man will be. Whenever the change comes, and it can't be far off, everyone here will have reason to cry in his or her beer, because the new guy can't be a Brett Favre. The again there just might be another one like him out there somewhere. We can always hope!

 

[Cdnfavrefan]

There will never be another Brett Favre :chalflag:
But there could be another great QB come along here. I just hope we're not like the Broncos where a QB wins 3/4 of the games and it's not good enough cause he's not Elway.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Our losing isn't all on Brett. He's at times doing more bad than good when we're down. When we are up he's excellent.

 

[Heatherthepackgirl]

He takes chances when we are down to get something going...IMO

 

[P@ck66]

This kind of says it all, and imo explains why the Packers are struggling. Not the other idea that some posters are floating.

But that's why the call them opinions, i guess..on both sides of the argument.

Inexperienced line limits the offense

By Rob Demovsky
[email protected]

If the Green Bay Packers' offense doesn't seem very dynamic, it's because first-year coach Mike McCarthy is using only a fraction of his playbook.


With so much effort put into helping an offensive line — with three rookie starters — protect Brett Favre, it's taken away much of what was supposed to be a prototypical West Coast passing game.


It's the rare play that McCarthy and offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski protect with only the five offensive linemen. Six-man protections often have been the minimum, and there have been plenty of times when they've left tight ends and running backs in to block.


"We're not using anywhere near all of the playbook," center Scott Wells said on Thursday. "Right now, we don't have a large variety of plays because they want us to get good at the plays we're using. We want to establish something that we can hang our hat on and something we know we can count on to execute well. Until we get to the point where we can execute certain plays well, they're not going to add anything."


It's not simply limited to the passing game. It goes for the running game, too.


"We have that power run that (former starting guards) Marco Rivera and Mike Wahle were great at," Wells said. "We have it in the book. We just haven't used it."


Instead, McCarthy has stuck to the basic zone-blocking plays that Jagodzinski brought with him from the Atlanta Falcons, where he was the offensive line coach last season. In the zone scheme, there are essentially four basic plays. There is a run to the weak side and a run to the strong side, and on each of those plays, there's an inside option and an outside option.


"We're running those, and that's what they want to be the core of our offense," Wells said. "We're really trying to be consistent with those before we expand it."


The Packers rank 12th in total offense but 20th in points. Since losing right tackle Mark Tauscher to a groin injury in the Nov. 12 win at Minnesota, the Packers have scored merely 34 points, and that includes a defensive touchdown in the 34-24 loss at Seattle on Nov. 27.


The offensive woes are especially evident on first down. The Packers' average gain on first-down plays is 4.33 yards.


"Getting 4 yards on first down is a winning deal," Jagodzinski said. "I don't know where we're ranked, but if you're sitting there at second-and-6, you can call whatever you want to call."


However, the Packers rank 15th in the NFC in first-down average. Only the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (at 4.19 yards per first-down play) are worse. In the AFC, only the New York Jets (4.27) and the Oakland Raiders (3.81) are worse. By comparison, the Philadelphia Eagles lead the NFC with 7.25 yards per play, and the Indianapolis Colts lead the AFC at 6.15. The Carolina Panthers rank right in the middle of the entire NFL, and their average is 5.29, nearly a yard more than the Packers.


"The thing we've gotten away from is a lot of our base drop-back pass game because of the emphasis on protection," McCarthy said. "It's affected some of the attempts for the backs. It's affected some of the attempts for the tight ends. That's kind of where we are on offense. When you throw the football, I'm of the opinion it's protection first."


The Packers tried to block one-on-one early in the Oct. 22 game at Miami, and Favre got drilled and lost a fumble that led to a touchdown. Jagodzinski and McCarthy quickly adjusted with more protection, and it wasn't a problem the rest of the way.


"We could get five (receivers) out every time, but if the ball can't get out and the quarterback keeps getting hit, that's counterproductive," Jagodzinski said. "We make sure he's protected. We go with five-man protection every now and then. We'll go some six-man protection. You start getting him hit around, that's not good for anybody."


It also means Favre is running more plays with three-step drops and almost none with seven-step drops, which typically are for deeper routes.


"You go back and take more time to throw, obviously you have more time to get open and get deeper," McCarthy said. "That's an area where you'd like to be able to do everything, and we will. Maybe this week. We'll see what happens."


The commitment to max protection isn't the only thing limiting the offense of late. Beginning with the Nov. 19 game against New England, when the Packers managed only 120 yards of offense, opposing teams effectively have taken away the Packers' top receiver, Donald Driver. He has caught only eight passes in the last three games combined.


What's more is rookie No. 2 receiver Greg Jennings has continued to be limited by the nagging ankle injury he sustained against the Dolphins. Though Jennings missed only one game, he hasn't had a 100-yard receiving game since the injury and hasn't had more than 69 yards receiving in any of his last five outings. Before his injury, he had a pair of 100-yard games and another with 86 yards.


"I think he's getting over that nagging thing he had," Jagodzinski said. "We've seen him perform. Hopefully, he can keep being productive for us, and hopefully this week will be the start of something good for him again."

 

[GakkofNorway]

didn't he get banned?

 

[Buckeyepackfan]

I respectfully disagree fellow, with your above post. I see no evidence or proof to back up your assertions.

It takes a team effort, especially on offense, to win games, and the Packer offense has been out of sync for the last several games. But they were in sync before that. So has Favre lost accuracy and power in just a few games then? Maybe, if that elbow is the cause of it, but I don't think he's hit the old age wall in just a couple of weeks, unless because of injury.

Yet, I still don't see it. In the last couple of weeks I've seen no running game, suspect pass blocking, and timing problems between the QB and the receivers. These are things that happen with a "young team", which is what the Packers are. That makes the most sense to me. Driver is double and triple covered. Jennings has been out for a few weeks. And who do you have after that?

Then how can QB and WR's develop a rhythmic passing game based upon timing and trust with the above situation? Lack of communication between QB and WR's, not on the same page with the QB, lack of time to set up throw a pass, (or to let a pass pattern fully develop) before the QB has to throw seems to explain things to me alot better than the above posters opinions and assertions, imo. Where is the proof, I say?

But, don't give up hope. These things can come together---hopefully, with work on timing in practice. It always seems that Favre has to "develop" receivers however, when some other teams have the luxury of seasoned veteran help.



Another thing is....nobody's mentioned the "Rookie Wall".....

Does anyone think that many of these rookies have hit the proverbial "Rookie Wall" and that this might have alot to do with the current state of the Green Bay Packers?

:twocents:
Any ideas..opinions?

Well said 66, great to have you back!!!. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Zero2Cool]

He takes chances when we are down to get something going...IMO

Yea and those chances were not the wisest either. Some of them anyhow. Heaving it down field into double tripple coverage is BAD chance especially on first down.


edit, better add this for the ignorant peeps.

I like Favre a lot. In fact he's my second favorite player to Barry Sanders. I don't think Favre is THE reason we are losing, that is surely a team effort or lack there of. I am just saying if he were to make wiser throws or simply throw it away it would give us a better chance when we're behind. Even McCarthy said the same thing. Throw it away an give the team a chance on the next play instead of throwing it into double coverage.

I am in no way saying Rodgers or Martin or Bouman would win games that Brett was playing in and we lost. I can't say that because I haven't seen them play a full game in the Pro's. Even then I don't know I could.

Favre's accuracy has went down considerably, but not enough to pull him. As I've said before, I think its all about his confidence. If you remember Holmgren would do the same thing I suggested. Which was give Brett short passes to build his confidence to calm him down.

Bottom line, I would be saying Brett is losing his 'talent' because he is not being coached thoroughly enough. Maybe I'm a homer for Brett an defending him. :shrug:

 

[GakkofNorway]

is it some kind of christmas amnesty?

I'm out of here, I'm not discussing with peeps that threaten other

 

[dxbfan]

I love the way this thread has a life of its own. Each time you think its done and dusted, it springs back to life!