Marquez Valdes-Scantling

[Dantés]

He is similar IMO to James Jones in the sense that he just isn’t a naturally intuitive football player. I think he will always be a role player. Another comparative guy I thought of is former Badger/Viking Michael Bennett. Long range blazing speed, just not naturally instinctive football players.

My comp for him is Tyrell Williams.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Okay, so I typed the words, but I'm speaking more to the "type" of wide out he is. He is a big yardage, deep ball WR type. He doesn't bring to the field quick crossers or insane route running abilities to work the short yardages or medium distances like Adams or Lazard or well anyone that fits that.

Edited and added to the original post since it was clearly a confusing description of the WR type he falls into.

Yeah that's the kind of receiver MVS is. As soon as he loses his speed, he loses his usefulness. Is he worth keeping? Considering the talent of the other WRs not named Adams, yes.

 

[tynimiller]

My comp for him is Tyrell Williams.

He is faster, but Tyrell has softer hands...only slightly both ways though. Solid comparison.

 

[thequick12]

I believe the Packers wr group as a whole dropped the highest percentage of passes of any group in the league, 6.5 %

Makes what aaron rodgers did so far this season even more impressive. Imagine if those guys had caught half of those. Mvs alone dropped around 4 long td passes

 

[Heyjoe4]

He is faster, but Tyrell has softer hands...only slightly both ways though. Solid comparison.

Or more recently, Jeff Janis. Blazing fast, just not a good route runner, lousy football intuition and awareness. Great special teams guy, but that was a luxury.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I wouldn't mind MVS staying on this team, but they need to scheme him up a little bit. Barring a Day 1-2 selection at WR (Mock pending), Lazard should get the lion's share behind Adams. MVS isn't shifty like Lazard, but a wrinkle they could add in this offense is more deep routes from the slot that could feature either Adams or MVS. I believe he could be more effective, or at least make the offense more effective by sucking the safeties in and leaving the boundary open for a WR like Adams, Lazard, and EQSB who are better at 50/50 balls.

 

[GleefulGary]

Or more recently, Jeff Janis. Blazing fast, just not a good route runner, lousy football intuition and awareness. Great special teams guy, but that was a luxury.

MVS is a lot better than Janis was.

 

[Do7]

MVS is a lot better than Janis was.

And contributed far more. Then again Janis did do well in ST.

 

[jhawk008]

I wouldn't mind this team going out and getting a STUD #2 with our first pick like maybe a Waddle if he falls (doubtful), or Bateman, and keep MVS as the 4th 5th option.

 

[tynimiller]

I wouldn't mind this team going out and getting a STUD #2 with our first pick like maybe a Waddle if he falls (doubtful), or Bateman, and keep MVS as the 4th 5th option.

Would shed draft capital for either of those. Bateman slightly less, but neither of them is falling there.

The only guys potentially I see as solid chance at delivering as a #2 option as a rookie we have a chance at are Olave and Surratt when it comes to well rounded wide outs that fill more than just one or two check boxes. Some with say Terrace Marshall may be there at #28-#32...but I'm mixed on him.

 

[Heyjoe4]

MVS is a lot better than Janis was.

Agreed.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I wouldn't mind MVS staying on this team, but they need to scheme him up a little bit. Barring a Day 1-2 selection at WR (Mock pending), Lazard should get the lion's share behind Adams. MVS isn't shifty like Lazard, but a wrinkle they could add in this offense is more deep routes from the slot that could feature either Adams or MVS. I believe he could be more effective, or at least make the offense more effective by sucking the safeties in and leaving the boundary open for a WR like Adams, Lazard, and EQSB who are better at 50/50 balls.

I think the TD catch he made non Sunday did come from the slot. It was also made possible by Chicago putting a LB on MVS. That's no contest and something Rodgers saw and exploited.

Whether MVS stays or not the team needs a real and reliable #2 WR. Doesn't have to be an incarnation of Adams, but someone the defense can't ignore. That said, I don't know how to get there. A rookie WR is unlikely to rise to the spot, and the Packers don't have any real trade capital. In the meantime, we'll have to live with the hit and miss of MVS.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

A rookie WR is unlikely to rise to the spot, and the Packers don't have any real trade capital.

A look at the 2020 WR Class says that's VERY possible. While the 2021 Class isn't as talented nor as deep, they need to at least TRY for once and get a WR in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Round. I'm not asking for Adams, I'm not asking for Jordy.....but can I at least get a James Jones?

 

[Heyjoe4]

A look at the 2020 WR Class says that's VERY possible. While the 2021 Class isn't as talented nor as deep, they need to at least TRY for once and get a WR in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Round. I'm not asking for Adams, I'm not asking for Jordy.....but can I at least get a James Jones?

Thanks. I don't know the depth of the 2021 WR class. I've seen some pretty good guys in the CFP. The Packers will pick late. I'd be happy if they could get a guy like Olave.

To your point, the FO has to have the will to take a WR in the 1st or 2nd round. Seems like their priorities are always elsewhere. Almost like they think that with Rodgers, the quality of the WR group as a whole isn't that important. That would be a mistake. They need a #2.

 

[tynimiller]

Thanks. I don't know the depth of the 2021 WR class. I've seen some pretty good guys in the CFP. The Packers will pick late. I'd be happy if they could get a guy like Olave.

To your point, the FO has to have the will to take a WR in the 1st or 2nd round. Seems like their priorities are always elsewhere. Almost like they think that with Rodgers, the quality of the WR group as a whole isn't that important. That would be a mistake. They need a #2.

Everyone knows I wanted a WR last year, at pretty much every spot as we didn't pick one prior...

But I still stepping back from my own preference would have to argue against the idea of not picking a WR is a mistake. We just had a historically efficient offense, a WR room (yes primarily Adams) have a 70%+ catch rate and an offense as a whole which every defense worries about.

I too still have and want WR picked this draft, but also understand this team has far greater needs of much more importance to spend high draft capital on (thinking 1st and 2nd round picks). CB is a position I argue we'll need to stab early and mid/late and be active in the undrafted as we don't have a replacement for King when he departs.

Interior DL as well big hole as we have nothing after Clark...well Keke is improving but he is more a rush DL. Lowry will be cut for fiscal savings and Lancaster is best suited IMO as a further down the depth guy.

OL is getting thin IMO as Lindley most likely gone, Lane Taylor coming again off injury and Wagner needing cut as NOT worth his tag.

Lot of my mocks have us going CB, DL and OT with our first 3 picks in variety of orders...and circling back to CB with or 4th or 5th pick as well.

What I would love to see is a trade back scenario that lands us a iDL or CB in the 2nd round but also a Olav or Surratt or a Schwartz or a Toney level WR maybe. If not I'd understand but there are some guys I like in the 85-130 range for WRs. They're not as all around deep as 2020 class but there are some excellent options that in MLf system could flourish.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Okay, so I typed the words, but I'm speaking more to the "type" of wide out he is. He is a big yardage, deep ball WR type. He doesn't bring to the field quick crossers or insane route running abilities to work the short yardages or medium distances like Adams or Lazard or well anyone that fits that.

Edited and added to the original post since it was clearly a confusing description of the WR type he falls into.

I think year 2 is a little too early to determine the future of an NFL player, with Adams being an absolutely PERFECT example.

 

[tynimiller]

I think year 2 is a little too early to determine the future of an NFL player, with Adams being an absolutely PERFECT example.

Future is untold, but I comfortable can state what he is right now in this system or really in another. Could he become more, yup. Hope he does.

 

[Dantés]

Couple more thoughts on MVS that have occurred to me.

McVay's LA Rams run a sister offense to LaFleur's Packers. They've seen a marked decrease in offensive production in recent seasons.

2018: 527 points
2019: 394
2020: 372

There are multiple factors that contribute to this change (e.g. Goff's level of play, the offensive line talent/performance), but one in particular has definitely been the absence of a vertical threat in the offense.

The 2018 Rams featured Brandin Cooks as an effective deep threat. He caught 80 balls and was over 15 YPR.

The 2019 Rams still had Cooks, but he was oft injured and less effective. He caught 42 balls and was under 14 YPR.

The 2020 Rams don't have Cooks or really anyone that you would call a deep threat (their leading receiver in YPR, Josh Reynolds, is under 12).

The absence of a vertical player correlates with their decreasing ability to score.

This illustrates something I've said for a long time-- this offense really needs a vertical element. That player does not have to be MVS. But he is certainly the only guy currently on the roster with the necessary skills. And those skills have been important to what has been an amazing offensive season.

 

[longtimefan]

Couple more thoughts on MVS that have occurred to me.

McVay's LA Rams run a sister offense to LaFleur's Packers. They've seen a marked decrease in offensive production in recent seasons.

2018: 527 points
2019: 394
2020: 372

There are multiple factors that contribute to this change (e.g. Goff's level of play, the offensive line talent/performance), but one in particular has definitely been the absence of a vertical threat in the offense.

The 2018 Rams featured Brandin Cooks as an effective deep threat. He caught 80 balls and was over 15 YPR.

The 2019 Rams still had Cooks, but he was oft injured and less effective. He caught 42 balls and was under 14 YPR.

The 2020 Rams don't have Cooks or really anyone that you would call a deep threat (their leading receiver in YPR, Josh Reynolds, is under 12).

The absence of a vertical player correlates with their decreasing ability to score.

This illustrates something I've said for a long time-- this offense really needs a vertical element. That player does not have to be MVS. But he is certainly the only guy currently on the roster with the necessary skills. And those skills have been important to what has been an amazing offensive season.

And gurely doesnt factor in their loss of points?

 

[Dantés]

And gurely doesnt factor in their loss of points?

I'm sure he does. Which is why I mentioned that other factors were at play.

But it's interesting that they saw a pretty marked improvement in rushing offense in 2020 vs 2019 (they ran for about 32 more yards per game, and .6 more yards per carry in 2020), and it didn't reverse the downward scoring trend.

 

[ARPackFan]

And Gurely doesnt factor in their loss of points?

Interesting question. From Pro Football Reference the Rams as a team had the following rushing & passing stats for those years. The fact that IYA (Intended Yards per pass attempt) has dropped over the three years would indicate fewer deep throws and at the same time the run game has become less efficient. Chicken or the egg - which part of the offense is most dependent on the other?

2018 - Rushing 2231 yards ; 4.9 yards/attempt : Passing 4507 yards ; 7.5 y/a :IYA - 8.7
2019 - Rushing 1499 y ; 3.7 y/a : Passing 4499 yards ; 6.9 y/a ; IYA - 7.7
2020 - Rushing 2018 y ; 4.3 y/a : Passing 4014 yards ; 6.5 y/a; IYA - 6.6

 

[Heyjoe4]

Everyone knows I wanted a WR last year, at pretty much every spot as we didn't pick one prior...

But I still stepping back from my own preference would have to argue against the idea of not picking a WR is a mistake. We just had a historically efficient offense, a WR room (yes primarily Adams) have a 70%+ catch rate and an offense as a whole which every defense worries about.

I too still have and want WR picked this draft, but also understand this team has far greater needs of much more importance to spend high draft capital on (thinking 1st and 2nd round picks). CB is a position I argue we'll need to stab early and mid/late and be active in the undrafted as we don't have a replacement for King when he departs.

Interior DL as well big hole as we have nothing after Clark...well Keke is improving but he is more a rush DL. Lowry will be cut for fiscal savings and Lancaster is best suited IMO as a further down the depth guy.

OL is getting thin IMO as Lindley most likely gone, Lane Taylor coming again off injury and Wagner needing cut as NOT worth his tag.

Lot of my mocks have us going CB, DL and OT with our first 3 picks in variety of orders...and circling back to CB with or 4th or 5th pick as well.

What I would love to see is a trade back scenario that lands us a iDL or CB in the 2nd round but also a Olav or Surratt or a Schwartz or a Toney level WR maybe. If not I'd understand but there are some guys I like in the 85-130 range for WRs. They're not as all around deep as 2020 class but there are some excellent options that in MLf system could flourish.

Good summary. And yeah, with King AND Linsley likely gone, and more depth needed on the DL, your draft order of CB, DL, and OL is about right. We'd all love a real #2 WR, but with Rodgers playing lights out as well as the entire offense (and the record to show it), a reality check says the D needs some immediate help.

It's still possible to get a quality WR in Round 4, but they usually require a lot of work. Maybe a trade, but the Packers don't have much draft capital, and I'm not a fan of using draft picks in a trade.

It's kinda hard to believe that Rodgers had arguably the best year of his career with a relatively thin WR group behind Adams. But they did it, they made it work and got the NFC bye. Hard to argue with that success.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

What I think mostly everyone is forgetting though is that Rodgers is in the twilight of his career, but wants to play at least til 40. What about the future? What about Jordan Love? Adams will be 31-32 when Rodgers retires. There needs to be a WR who's the heir apparent and Love's future playmaker. When does that WR get drafted? Or do we hope to just stream Adams with also-rans for the next 4 years?

 

[tynimiller]

What I think mostly everyone is forgetting though is that Rodgers is in the twilight of his career, but wants to play at least til 40. What about the future? What about Jordan Love? Adams will be 31-32 when Rodgers retires. There needs to be a WR who's the heir apparent and Love's future playmaker. When does that WR get drafted? Or do we hope to just stream Adams with also-rans for the next 4 years?

There is no dire need in at least the next two to force ourselves into a need Adams replacement. However, I mean no fan is going to argue if they'd nab a top flight WR in a draft or FA...even if greater need goes unaddressed. I will say despite it making me want to rip my freaking hair out at times, I have no doubt Gute will and has proven he will grab the talent he feels is significantly higher on their board then it is playing out. Gary was that, Savage was that, Dillon and Love all examples from most places overdrafted. Deguara similar as well.

All that rambling merely means I expect Gute to continue to dabble at WR, and also pounce if a top flight guy is sitting there 20 picks after he expected, whether that is in the 1st, 3rd or 5th rounds.

But the good news is Adams is literally in the section of his prime years where his most production occurs. I predict at least another 2 years of high high performance and then still another 2 where he is ample #1 type guy on most staffs.

 

[pacmaniac]

What happened to ESB this year? His rookie season was much better than this year.

I know he was injured part of this season, but he still played on offense in more games this season than he did in his rookie season.