Marquez Valdes-Scantling

[Pokerbrat2000]

There is no dire need in at least the next two to force ourselves into a need Adams replacement. However, I mean no fan is going to argue if they'd nab a top flight WR in a draft or FA...even if greater need goes unaddressed. I will say despite it making me want to rip my freaking hair out at times, I have no doubt Gute will and has proven he will grab the talent he feels is significantly higher on their board then it is playing out. Gary was that, Savage was that, Dillon and Love all examples from most places overdrafted. Deguara similar as well.

All that rambling merely means I expect Gute to continue to dabble at WR, and also pounce if a top flight guy is sitting there 20 picks after he expected, whether that is in the 1st, 3rd or 5th rounds.

But the good news is Adams is literally in the section of his prime years where his most production occurs. I predict at least another 2 years of high high performance and then still another 2 where he is ample #1 type guy on most staffs.

All pretty accurate, but here is one problem with not planning ahead of time. We saw it with Perry, Kenny Clark, to some extent Bahk, possibly Aaron Jones and next year most likely will be with both Adams and Alexander. That "problem" is you are almost forced to sign someone at top dollar, simply because you don't have anyone on the roster to adequately replace them with. I know, it's a great "problem" to have top notch players, but how many high end contracts can you have and still maintain a fully competitive roster? The Packers could easily find themselves with a small handful of players eating up a large majority of the cap. So as nice as it is to grab "the best player available" irregardless of need, that can come back to bite you.

 

[Dantés]

What I think mostly everyone is forgetting though is that Rodgers is in the twilight of his career, but wants to play at least til 40. What about the future? What about Jordan Love? Adams will be 31-32 when Rodgers retires. There needs to be a WR who's the heir apparent and Love's future playmaker. When does that WR get drafted? Or do we hope to just stream Adams with also-rans for the next 4 years?

I don’t think anyone forgot that the Packers will need WR’s in the future.

 

[Dantés]

All pretty accurate, but here is one problem with not planning ahead of time. We saw it with Perry, Kenny Clark, to some extent Bahk, possibly Aaron Jones and next year most likely will be with both Adams and Alexander. That "problem" is you are almost forced to sign someone at top dollar, simply because you don't have anyone on the roster to adequately replace them with. I know, it's a great "problem" to have top notch players, but how many high end contracts can you have and still maintain a fully competitive roster? The Packers could easily find themselves with a small handful of players eating up a large majority of the cap. So as nice as it is to grab "the best player available" irregardless of need, that can come back to bite you.

I know he can’t hear me, but I just need to point out that “we should have drafted a WR so we could let Adams walk” is a real doozy of an argument.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don’t think anyone forgot that the Packers will need WR’s in the future.

Yeah Let's focus on getting WRs for Rodgers, not Love, a 3rd string QB at present with an unknown future.

 

[tynimiller]

What happened to ESB this year? His rookie season was much better than this year.

I know he was injured part of this season, but he still played on offense in more games this season than he did in his rookie season.

When Tonyan emerged as arguably our 2nd, 3rd or 4th best option depending who all your including in the passing game...ESB was far down. MVS having a solid target year also eats into it.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I don’t think anyone forgot that the Packers will need WR’s in the future.

Yeah Let's focus on getting WRs for Rodgers, not Love, a 3rd string QB at present with an unknown future.

That's what I'm saying, I'm just adding there's an additional argument to add somebody in the next 1-2 years, unless the Packers are expecting Love to do the same thing Rodgers does and make everybody on the roster better. 3 HOF QBs in a row? To quote @Dantés, that's a real doozy of an argument there as well.

 

[Poppa San]

3 HOF QBs in a row?

Would he need to be HOF or just Matt Stafford good?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Would he need to be HOF or just Matt Stafford good?

If he's Stafford then I think it's probably a mistake; not because Stafford isn't good, but drafting a QB with the plan to sit him at least 3 seasons doesn't make sense, to me, if it's Stafford. Much of this will also depend on what options the Packers will have on the next 2 drafts.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What I think mostly everyone is forgetting though is that Rodgers is in the twilight of his career, but wants to play at least til 40. What about the future? What about Jordan Love? Adams will be 31-32 when Rodgers retires. There needs to be a WR who's the heir apparent and Love's future playmaker. When does that WR get drafted? Or do we hope to just stream Adams with also-rans for the next 4 years?

The Packers need to upgrade the wide receiver position to surround Rodgers with better talent.

If a receiver added over the next few years ends up developing into an elite player until Love or another quarterback takes over as starter that would be icing on the cake.

 

[ARPackFan]

MVS is fast and as the adage goes "You can't coach speed". While some individuals are naturally gifted when it comes to catching the ball it is still a skill and that can be coached. Unfortunately that is something for the offseason and in the here and now throwing at MVS is a coin flip. As a whole the receiving group is doing better as of late and the emergence of Tonyan has greatly helped but my fear is that someone other than Adams or Tonyan is going to need to make a clutch catch for the Packers to advance. So how much do you trust the other guys and is it any wonder why Rodgers prefers to throw to Adams? Chase Claypool could have been taken by the Packers and has a 5.5% drop rate which on the Packers would be the third lowest. I still think Gute screwed the pooch in the 2020 draft but there is nothing that can be done about that now.

Player / Drop %
M. Lewis - 23.5%
ESB - 15.4%
MVS- 11.1%
Lazard- 10.9%
Sternberger - 6.7%

Adams - 0.7%
Tonyan - 0.0%

Source:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2020_advanced.htm

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

MVS is fast and as the adage goes "You can't coach speed". While some individuals are naturally gifted when it comes to catching the ball it is still a skill and that can be coached. Unfortunately that is something for the offseason and in the here and now throwing at MVS is a coin flip. As a whole the receiving group is doing better as of late and the emergence of Tonyan has greatly helped but my fear is that someone other than Adams or Tonyan is going to need to make a clutch catch for the Packers to advance. So how much do you trust the other guys and is it any wonder why Rodgers prefers to throw to Adams? Chase Claypool could have been taken by the Packers and has a 5.5% drop rate which on the Packers would be the third lowest. I still think Gute screwed the pooch in the 2020 draft but there is nothing that can be done about that now.

Player / Drop %
M. Lewis - 23.5%
ESB - 15.4%
MVS- 11.1%
Lazard- 10.9%
Sternberger - 6.7%

Adams - 0.7%
Tonyan - 0.0%

Source:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2020_advanced.htm

No doubt drop rates are important, but I would also evaluate these guys on other things. Route running, contested catches, YAC, blocking, etc. I know there is this big focus on MVS's drops, but how is he doing in all these other areas?

If we end up playing the Rams next week, it will be interesting to see how the Offense does against their very elite defense. They are the kind of defense that scares me, one that can be very disruptive with only their front 4. Will Rodgers have enough time to be picky on who he throws the ball to? Will Packer receivers other than Adams be able to get open quickly?

I couldn't help but watch Cole Beasley play yesterday. He reminds me a bit of Cobb, a guy that seems to always find a way to get open and catch balls. I would say if the Packers are lacking in the WR dept., it would be having a player like Beasley or Cobb.

 

[ARPackFan]

No doubt drop rates are important, but I would also evaluate these guys on other things. Route running, contested catches, YAC, blocking, etc. I know there is this big focus on MVS's drops, but how is he doing in all these other areas?

If we end up playing the Rams next week, it will be interesting to see how the Offense does against their very elite defense. They are the kind of defense that scares me, one that can be very disruptive with only their front 4. Will Rodgers have enough time to be picky on who he throws the ball to? Will Packer receivers other than Adams be able to get open quickly?

I couldn't help but watch Cole Beasley play yesterday. He reminds me a bit of Cobb, a guy that seems to always find a way to get open and catch balls. I would say if the Packers are lacking in the WR dept., it would be having a player like Beasley or Cobb.

Cole Beasley is zone coverage kryptonite. Unfortunately in Arkansas I see a lot of the Dallas Cowboys on Sunday afternoons and he always impressed me with his ability to find gaps in zone coverage. Now that he is with Buffalo I don't see him play as much.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

When did MVS get traded to DaBears? I swear I just saw #83 drop a long pass, wide open in the EZ!

 

[PikeBadger]

When did MVS get traded to DaBears? I swear I just saw #83 drop a long pass, wide open in the EZ!

Yeah, Mims is the same guy a lot of people here wanted to see drafted two years ago.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah, Mims is the same guy a lot of people here wanted to see drafted two years ago.

Couldn't have been me, I only want the Packers to draft good players.

I think you are confusing Javon Wims with Denzel Mims?

 

[ARPackFan]

When did MVS get traded to DaBears? I swear I just saw #83 drop a long pass, wide open in the EZ!

I swear I thought the same thing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I swear I thought the same thing.

While I am pulling for Da Bears to "Win", I did find that drop to be...."Wimsical"

 

[Deleted member 6794]

MVS is fast and as the adage goes "You can't coach speed". While some individuals are naturally gifted when it comes to catching the ball it is still a skill and that can be coached.

Unfortunately I'm not convinced that catching the ball can actually be taught.

 

[PikeBadger]

Couldn't have been me, I only want the Packers to draft good players.

I think you are confusing Javon Wims with Denzel Mims?

I think you’re right. My bad. I think I actually had Mims as one of my picks in Amish’s annual draft contest.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think you’re right. My bad. I think I actually had Mims as one of my picks in Amish’s annual draft contest.

No worries, it's a common Mimstake.

 

[tynimiller]

Feel as though this needs seen more than buried this deep in this thread but best place. So I'm compiling stats of all WRs drafted since 2017 to now. Not done, BUT let's look at how MVS stacks against ALL the drafted wide receivers of his draft which of course was 2018:

MVS - 192 Targets - 97 Receptions - 1,723 yards - 17.8 YPC - 10 TDs - 50.5 Ctch%


There were 33 selected WRs in 2018:

Games
MVS leads all WRs with 48 games active in. Russell Gage/Anthony Miller tied with 47 for second and three tied for third (Gallup/Moore/Hamilton)

Games Started
MVS has the third most games started with 32. Only Gallup (35) and DJ Moore (39) have more. Moore was a 1st rounder and Gallup a 3rd.

Targets
MVS ranks 9th and is one of only two WRs in the top ten not selected 3rd round or higher.

Receptions
MVS again ranks 9th and is again one of only two WRs in the top ten not selected 3rd round or higher.

Yards
MVS is 7th on this list and is the ONLY WR drafted after the 3rd in the top 10.

Y/R
MVS ranks 2nd* at 17.8
Richie James (18.1) has a third of the targets and receptions as MVS.

Touchdowns
MVS has 10 which is tied with Cortland Sutton and DJ Moore for 7th. He is the only WR inside the top 12 drafted after the 3rd round.

Catch percentage
MVS ranks on a whole at 26th out of all. Ranks 22nd if you limited results to only WRs with 25 receptions minimum.

On the Catch Percentage further...I found it crazy that MVS is at 50.5 at the moment...Michael Gallup is only at 55.2 with about 100 more targets than MVS. Courtland Sutton is at 54.7% with only about 20 more targets than MVS. His hands are truly his ONLY weakness which is illustrated by his statistics (we all know his route tree is still growing as well).

It is mind boggling to see MVS routinely in the Top 10, 5 3 or leading categories being the LAST pick of the 5th round.

Of that group of WRs he has clearly leaped way over his draft position as far as what he delivered the most. Only one other WR overshot by a lot given their draft spot.

Russell Gage (ATL) - 6th rounder has 1,295 Yards on 127 Receptions, 5 TDs and Catch % of 65.8

 

[tynimiller]

IF you were to rank every category I listed and then averaged each WR's rank. MVS's average rank despite being stinking 25th in one is 7.875 good for 6th best.

IF he merely raised his catch rate to just 56% he is the 4th best.

The saying around the forum by some of us is that if he had good hands he literally is a walking cheat code.

I mean folks even if the 9 drops he has had, he easily would have over 1,000 this season and be sitting in his draft class only looking up to the likes of DJ Moore and Calvin Ridley arguably and fighting with Gallup as the 3rd best. Daaaaaayum....

 

[PikeBadger]

Amazing. Who was the brilliant sob that drafted that guy???

 

[GleefulGary]

If he's Stafford then I think it's probably a mistake; not because Stafford isn't good, but drafting a QB with the plan to sit him at least 3 seasons doesn't make sense, to me, if it's Stafford. Much of this will also depend on what options the Packers will have on the next 2 drafts.

I don’t think you get how good Stafford is.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Feel as though this needs seen more than buried this deep in this thread but best place. So I'm compiling stats of all WRs drafted since 2017 to now. Not done, BUT let's look at how MVS stacks against ALL the drafted wide receivers of his draft which of course was 2018:

MVS - 192 Targets - 97 Receptions - 1,723 yards - 17.8 YPC - 10 TDs - 50.5 Ctch%


There were 33 selected WRs in 2018:

Games
MVS leads all WRs with 48 games active in. Russell Gage/Anthony Miller tied with 47 for second and three tied for third (Gallup/Moore/Hamilton)

Games Started
MVS has the third most games started with 32. Only Gallup (35) and DJ Moore (39) have more. Moore was a 1st rounder and Gallup a 3rd.

Targets
MVS ranks 9th and is one of only two WRs in the top ten not selected 3rd round or higher.

Receptions
MVS again ranks 9th and is again one of only two WRs in the top ten not selected 3rd round or higher.

Yards
MVS is 7th on this list and is the ONLY WR drafted after the 3rd in the top 10.

Y/R
MVS ranks 2nd* at 17.8
Richie James (18.1) has a third of the targets and receptions as MVS.

Touchdowns
MVS has 10 which is tied with Cortland Sutton and DJ Moore for 7th. He is the only WR inside the top 12 drafted after the 3rd round.

Catch percentage
MVS ranks on a whole at 26th out of all. Ranks 22nd if you limited results to only WRs with 25 receptions minimum.

On the Catch Percentage further...I found it crazy that MVS is at 50.5 at the moment...Michael Gallup is only at 55.2 with about 100 more targets than MVS. Courtland Sutton is at 54.7% with only about 20 more targets than MVS. His hands are truly his ONLY weakness which is illustrated by his statistics (we all know his route tree is still growing as well).

It is mind boggling to see MVS routinely in the Top 10, 5 3 or leading categories being the LAST pick of the 5th round.

Of that group of WRs he has clearly leaped way over his draft position as far as what he delivered the most. Only one other WR overshot by a lot given their draft spot.

Russell Gage (ATL) - 6th rounder has 1,295 Yards on 127 Receptions, 5 TDs and Catch % of 65.8

There's no doubt MVS has made a decent impact considering he was drafted in the fifth round. He shouldn't be the second best receiver on a team competing for a Super Bowl though.